Quote from nisskid :

i can guarentee you the reason why you were slow when drifting was to do with your technique and setup. I see a lot of drifters setups they ask me to correct and majority of the setups i see are laughable.

As far as drift, if you are doing it like the rest of people on LFS then yes, you will be slower.

:slap:

Quote from Jertje :

1. Pick up 5 books on racing (speed secrets, going faster, whatever)
2. Read them.
3. Try to find a chapter on drifting to increase lap times.
4. ?????
5. Profit.

Wow, you completely missed the whole point of the argument, congrats and good luck with future posts.

Quote from nisskid :

Not sure where you got that from :S

The grip vs drift thing. Was that you (or another human) versus the AI? And does that not show that 'gripping' is as quick as drifting when the 'gripping' is done badly several seconds off the pace, with poor lines and poor technique?

Quote from tristancliffe :

The grip vs drift thing. Was that you (or another human) versus the AI? And does that not show that 'gripping' is as quick as drifting when the 'gripping' is done badly several seconds off the pace, with poor lines and poor technique?

tbh i was pretty shit back then as well haha. that was back in '06 ffs.

if you look at it though there are a few times where i lost speed because how much faster i was going than the AI, and since i was drifting it wasn't as easy to slow down without ****ing up. one of the biggest issues with drift is doing it over and over again perfectly, a lot easier to maintain a fast line holding traction, but u can so easily **** up a drift causing you a lot of speed, when you put another car in the equation it just gets more complicated. when you drift you have to know the corner and setup your car perfectly, any inconsistancies in line, speed or anything really, and it's much harder to make corrections.

watch coming out of the first S bend, even with a bit too much angle on the exit costing me speed i still had too much exit speed and had to hit the anchors, i probably could have taken him in the next corner under braking, but i was planning on taking him on the next part, hence why you can see me slowing down on the next straight to let him get some distance, so i had enough distance to pull the move i did.

not saying it means anything, but you're blind if you cant see a massive speed difference in that vid.

I find drifting far easier that being able to keep the back end in line when racing. So I think saying drifting is harder is just a matter of opinion.

Quote from nisskid :

you're blind if you cant see a massive speed difference in that vid.

It's not like LFS's physics are perfect and simulate real life completely. Who knows, the fact that you were so much faster then the AI may have been many other factors. Maybe you should compare your time to the WR instead.

Quote from Luke.S :

And on this bomb shell it's time to end the show.

Yes, but don't worry, just like Top Gear, another thread on this topic will be back next week!

Quote from nisskid :

if you look at it though there are a few times where i lost speed because how much faster i was going than the AI, and since i was drifting it wasn't as easy to slow down without ****ing up. one of the biggest issues with drift is doing it over and over again perfectly, a lot easier to maintain a fast line holding traction, but u can so easily **** up a drift causing you a lot of speed, when you put another car in the equation it just gets more complicated. when you drift you have to know the corner and setup your car perfectly, any inconsistancies in line, speed or anything really, and it's much harder to make corrections.

Wow that's useful. So, speedrift is faster in a race where you're alone and lasts two laps... Sweet.
Judging by your online pb's you were obviously "gripping"? A bit too much perhaps?

Sorry for today's random spam. I'm done now.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

It's not like LFS's physics are perfect and simulate real life completely. Who knows, the fact that you were so much faster then the AI may have been many other factors. Maybe you should compare your time to the WR instead.

the fact that i was so much faster than AI was because AI is shit. I wasn't much better at the time, but yeh.

Quote from de Souza :

Wow that's useful. So, speedrift is faster in a race where you're alone and lasts two laps... Sweet.

you are lucky caller number 50 to completely miss the point. congrats.

Quote from de Souza :

Judging by your online pb's you were obviously "gripping"? A bit too much perhaps?

wow, im flattered that you went to do a a background check on me, not that it's really relavent as i can't even remember the last time i went racing. Those pb's were probably all set show drifting, hence not giving a shit about time.

Oh shut up. That kind of thread made me quit LFS. So much annoyance with the 'Drift vs Grip' threads with the drifter not understanding that RACING IS FASTER and DRIFTING IS SLOWER.

Quote from nisskid :

you are lucky caller number 50 to completely miss the point. congrats.

Maybe 50 people got the point of the discussion and one missed it. Anyway, it's about what's fast in a race: drifting or not. And I told you that if you need to make sure to have a lot of variables at a certain state (no traffic, nearly 100% perfect brake points, lines, apexes all the time; few laps because of tyre wear/heat) for drifting to be faster, is that even a race?

Quote :

wow, im flattered that you went to do a a background check on me, not that it's really relavent as i can't even remember the last time i went racing. Those pb's were probably all set show drifting, hence not giving a shit about time.

Fair enough, but you completely missed the point... I was joking.

@nisskid: mmkay, why don`t you try and hotlap. Hotlap and hotlap for a month. Compare your driving lines to the WR lines. Watch replays. Analyze. Only "grip" that month (stupid EA-NFS with their "definitions"... poisoning brains worldwide).
After that spend another month refining your "speed drift" technique.
Compare times.

You should write a letter to Stewart and suggest F1 cars start drifting if it indeed is the fastest way to drive around corners? Or maybe they should only drift in qualifying?

Quote from de Souza :

Maybe 50 people got the point of the discussion and one missed it. Anyway, it's about what's fast in a race: drifting or not. And I told you that if you need to make sure to have a lot of variables at a certain state (no traffic, nearly 100% perfect brake points, lines, apexes all the time; few laps because of tyre wear/heat) for drifting to be faster, is that even a race?

i never made the statement that drift was a better way to race, this seems to have been lost along the way, and by along the way i mean at the start.

the only bold statement i made was that drift CAN be faster, not that it is faster.

would you agree that in some situations drifting around a corner can be faster than maintaining full traction?

Quote from pine-fin :

You should write a letter to Stewart and suggest F1 cars start drifting if it indeed is the fastest way to drive around corners? Or maybe they should only drift in qualifying?

http://i79.photobucket.com/alb ... id/Misc/SiskoAnimated.gif

Quote from riders Motion :

racing Is Faster And drifting Is Slower.

+1

Quote from Riders Motion :

Oh shut up. That kind of thread made me quit LFS. So much annoyance with the 'Drift vs Grip' threads with the drifter not understanding that RACING IS FASTER and DRIFTING IS SLOWER.

+ A number so high al the computer power in the world is not advanced enough to show it

Quote from nisskid :

i never made the statement that drift was a better way to race, this seems to have been lost along the way, and by along the way i mean at the start.

the only bold statement i made was that drift CAN be faster, not that it is faster.

would you agree that in some situations drifting around a corner can be faster than maintaining full traction?

In order to prevent future misunderstanding, you would rather define what you mean by drifting. On that forum, drifting means literally : D1GP. So when you say "Drift CAN be faster than normal racing", people automatically compare D1GP to DTM. In that case, they are right.

Read the message I shown you about sliding some pages ago. As you saw, I did not demonstrate something much different than your point, but I used the right word, and people agreed with me.
Definitions are important :
- "Drifting is faster than normal racing" : a big NO NO.
- "Sliding is faster than normal racing" : a big YES according to the demonstration I made in my post.

But drifting and sliding are two different things that light different areas of the forumers brains :
- Drifting is the show motorsport
- Sliding is the racing technique of using the tires' slip angles.

So basically, you're not wrong if you mean sliding. If you mean D1GP, you're deeply wrong that time (but I know you don't). That's why definitions are so important.
You want to use "gripping" to define the standard way of racing, and it is a new word to define it. So, if you don't want to come back to the roots of this definitions, please do not come back to the roots of the word drifting (when it was a racing technique), since now it means something else


And also, when done properly, they look completely different. I did not see your video, but I bet that it is drifting. If you are interested, stay in touch with me, and I can send you some replays that will show you what sliding is about Then you can watch them and see whether your definition matches what it is

Quote from nisskid :

the only bold statement i made was that drift CAN be faster, not that it is faster.

would you agree that in some situations drifting around a corner can be faster than maintaining full traction?

When was the last time you saw a driver in one of the following (or similar) drifting to be fast in qualifying (i.e. one lap counts - tyre wear not an issue really):

F1
GP2
A1GP
F3
Karting
WTCC
ALMS
BTCC
GT
NASCAR
Porsche (Carrera Cup at al)
Ma5da (or Max5 or whatever it's called this year)
Clio Cup
and so on.

Note: A drift is not the use of ANY amount of yaw in a corner. A drift must be more than, say, 8° of yaw. But speed drifting is about 30°+ so it shouldn't be easily confused.

If you think it's because the drivers aren't good enough, or the cars aren't setup well enough then why are there no drifting teams in the above series?

Also, can you find me a WR in LFS set by 'speed drifting' (contradition methinks) please? Or a league race won by a speed drifter (hell, even a pole position would be enough please).

The moral of the story - if you want to go fast, don't drift.

racing is the fastest, but if you go too fast you will slide/drift and loose time.

Quote from Zen321 :

In order to prevent future misunderstanding, you would rather define what you mean by drifting. On that forum, drifting means literally : D1GP. So when you say "Drift CAN be faster than normal racing", people automatically compare D1GP to DTM. In that case, they are right.

Read the message I shown you about sliding some pages ago. As you saw, I did not demonstrate something much different than your point, but I used the right word, and people agreed with me.
Definitions are important :
- "Drifting is faster than normal racing" : a big NO NO.
- "Sliding is faster than normal racing" : a big YES according to the demonstration I made in my post.

But drifting and sliding are two different things that light different areas of the forumers brains :
- Drifting is the show motorsport
- Sliding is the racing technique of using the tires' slip angles.

So basically, you're not wrong if you mean sliding. If you mean D1GP, you're deeply wrong that time (but I know you don't). That's why definitions are so important.
You want to use "gripping" to define the standard way of racing, and it is a new word to define it. So, if you don't want to come back to the roots of this definitions, please do not come back to the roots of the word drifting (when it was a racing technique), since now it means something else


And also, when done properly, they look completely different. I did not see your video, but I bet that it is drifting. If you are interested, stay in touch with me, and I can send you some replays that will show you what sliding is about Then you can watch them and see whether your definition matches what it is

so this is coming down to a differ in terms?

by drifting i mean drifting, if you like to call it sliding then good for you. the sport drifting originated from the term to describe the tyres "drifting" through a corner, just because drifting is now a sport doesnt take away it's original definition, i explained this early on, if people didn't see it or read it then that isn't my fault.

also my video was generally more angle than needed, but like i said i wasnt that good back then and holding more angle was easier.

Everyone stop getting butthurt.

You just killed the thread wheel4hummer.

Thank God he did.