What the OP is talking about is actually a 'tender spring'.
Tender springs are used either in the manner the OP explained, or when running lots of droop and a short main spring, in order to keep the spring in contact with the perches and not flopping around. In offroad buggy/truck racing, two springs are used more often because of the varying terrain and long suspension travel (compared to a road car). In this case, it isn't a tender spring, but a dual-spring setup...
The thing to remember here is that the springs work in series and not parallel, as with a bump-stop. If the springs are different lengths, the softer one will bottom first, and the rate will jump to the higher rate. So, if you run a 50lb, 1in long tender spring and a 500lb main spring, your rate for the first inch of travel will be 45lbs/in ((500*50)/(500+50)). After that 1st inch, the rate would go up to 500lbs/in, since the tender spring bottoms. With the right rates and lengths, it has the potential to work well for rallycross, but it's not going to help much, if at all, on a smooth track...as soon as you turn in, the rate will 'instantly' go to the higher rate with the setup I described above, thus really negating the point of the tender spring. Going with a higher tender rate, it will take longer to compress the tender spring, and thus delay getting to the higher rate...this is desireable with a rough track and lots of suspension travel, but not a for a GT-style car. Again, though, it depends on your overall setup and spring choices.
A progressive spring increases rate as it is compressed. So at free length, it may be 100 lb/in, but at 2in compression, it could be 400lbs/in. These are generally not used in race cars as they can get pretty complicated pretty quickly. It's much easier (in the real world) to tune handling with damping and roll bars than to try to tune with a progressive spring.
A 'third spring' or 'third damper' helps control the pitch of the car under acceleration and braking, and generally do not work in roll, unless the roll is accompanied by either acceleration or braking. It lets you run soft springs for increased grip during cornering, but prevents excessive pitch just as an ARB prevents excessive roll.
Hopefully this helps to clear things up a little bit...
Tender springs are used either in the manner the OP explained, or when running lots of droop and a short main spring, in order to keep the spring in contact with the perches and not flopping around. In offroad buggy/truck racing, two springs are used more often because of the varying terrain and long suspension travel (compared to a road car). In this case, it isn't a tender spring, but a dual-spring setup...
The thing to remember here is that the springs work in series and not parallel, as with a bump-stop. If the springs are different lengths, the softer one will bottom first, and the rate will jump to the higher rate. So, if you run a 50lb, 1in long tender spring and a 500lb main spring, your rate for the first inch of travel will be 45lbs/in ((500*50)/(500+50)). After that 1st inch, the rate would go up to 500lbs/in, since the tender spring bottoms. With the right rates and lengths, it has the potential to work well for rallycross, but it's not going to help much, if at all, on a smooth track...as soon as you turn in, the rate will 'instantly' go to the higher rate with the setup I described above, thus really negating the point of the tender spring. Going with a higher tender rate, it will take longer to compress the tender spring, and thus delay getting to the higher rate...this is desireable with a rough track and lots of suspension travel, but not a for a GT-style car. Again, though, it depends on your overall setup and spring choices.
A progressive spring increases rate as it is compressed. So at free length, it may be 100 lb/in, but at 2in compression, it could be 400lbs/in. These are generally not used in race cars as they can get pretty complicated pretty quickly. It's much easier (in the real world) to tune handling with damping and roll bars than to try to tune with a progressive spring.
A 'third spring' or 'third damper' helps control the pitch of the car under acceleration and braking, and generally do not work in roll, unless the roll is accompanied by either acceleration or braking. It lets you run soft springs for increased grip during cornering, but prevents excessive pitch just as an ARB prevents excessive roll.
Hopefully this helps to clear things up a little bit...
Last edited by spdracer22, .
Reason : Some clarification.
I think the sounds are getting better. No, it doesn't sound like I'm sitting in a real car, but it's getting better. You have to remember that these sounds are generated, not sampled. Most other games have sampled sounds. They drive a real car around at different rpms and record the sound, then replay them similar to CSR.
Also, you have to consider the gaming environment. If you have a really loud computer, crappy speakers, etc, the game is going to sound crappy. If you have a dead-quiet pc, a well setup room, and a good sound card and speakers that have been tuned to the room, the game is going to sound like what the devs want it to.
Things are better, and they'll keep getting better. The game is still at version 0.5, not 10.5...if not the most realistic looking or sounding, it's definitely the best driving. Look at what the devs have done so far, and just think what it'll be like 2 years from now...
Also, you have to consider the gaming environment. If you have a really loud computer, crappy speakers, etc, the game is going to sound crappy. If you have a dead-quiet pc, a well setup room, and a good sound card and speakers that have been tuned to the room, the game is going to sound like what the devs want it to.
Things are better, and they'll keep getting better. The game is still at version 0.5, not 10.5...if not the most realistic looking or sounding, it's definitely the best driving. Look at what the devs have done so far, and just think what it'll be like 2 years from now...
I agree that there are different drivers and you can't really tell everyone to use the same setup, but I think forcing to the 'standard' or 'hard race' sets should be possible. Those are ones everyone has, and everyone has used. It's not the same as if someone would force a set no one has seen and only allows 5 minutes of practice on it...we can all practice on it as much as we want and would know what to expect.
I like the suggestion from thisnameistaken as well. If not fixing setups, then restricting setups would be a good option. Aero, gearing, and tires are restricted in a lot of professional series, and I think it'd be good to include those restrictions.
I like the suggestion from thisnameistaken as well. If not fixing setups, then restricting setups would be a good option. Aero, gearing, and tires are restricted in a lot of professional series, and I think it'd be good to include those restrictions.
I was watching a show the other day...and the guy (an editor of an audiophile magazine) made a great comment... He said that people's taste in audio quality is going downhill because they don't know what good audio sounds like. I agree with that. I had always been into CDs and MP3s, because I thought they were the best...I hadn't heard anything else (that I could remember). Then, last Christmas, I was listening to my brother's record collection...I couldn't believe how much I was missing by listening to (lossy, not lossless) MP3s...I haven't been the same since.
The same goes for hardware...I was shopping for car speakers with a friend of mine. We'd listen to the 'under $200/pair' section, then go into the room with the $500/pair and above section. The room was much more suitable for audio testing, and you were able to hear the little differences between the different brands, and even models of the same brand. It was amazing. I had always just gone up to the wall in the store, demo'd a little, then grabbed the ones I wanted and left...just like anyone else...not anymore!
I'm no expert by any means, but there's so much out there, and such vast differences in quality, that you can't just take what you're told...I guess just like anything else
The same goes for hardware...I was shopping for car speakers with a friend of mine. We'd listen to the 'under $200/pair' section, then go into the room with the $500/pair and above section. The room was much more suitable for audio testing, and you were able to hear the little differences between the different brands, and even models of the same brand. It was amazing. I had always just gone up to the wall in the store, demo'd a little, then grabbed the ones I wanted and left...just like anyone else...not anymore!
I'm no expert by any means, but there's so much out there, and such vast differences in quality, that you can't just take what you're told...I guess just like anything else
Just wondering...I used to live in Germany and I sold Bose stuff in the base store...that was the only place I've heard of the 321 in Europe...at least when I was there, anyway...
Oh, and it sucked then, as it does now, at least for what they try to sell it to be... I used to listen to the thing for hours a day... It's good for a small sitting/tv room, but not as a home theatre system...it's way underpowered, and you can't really tell me you can get true surround from 2 speakers...not gonna happen... I actually talked a couple people out of buying it...I wasn't on commission, so no big deal...and they wouldn't have been happy with it anyway...
Oh, and it sucked then, as it does now, at least for what they try to sell it to be... I used to listen to the thing for hours a day... It's good for a small sitting/tv room, but not as a home theatre system...it's way underpowered, and you can't really tell me you can get true surround from 2 speakers...not gonna happen... I actually talked a couple people out of buying it...I wasn't on commission, so no big deal...and they wouldn't have been happy with it anyway...
A friend of mine has a PS3...paid $750US for it...TOOOOOO much if you ask me, at least for this first run. The network connectivity sucks...it takes at least 30min to download the <100Meg file with an 8Mbit connection, and that's if you can actually get a 'good' rate. Sometimes, it'll go for 15min and not be done with the first 2%... Also, there's some output issues with different tv's, ps2 games don't play right, it costs $600, there's no linux drivers for the cell yet, etc. etc... I would like one, but I don't have an HDTV yet, and I find it best to wait for at least the first price cut and all the bugs to worked out...oh, and GT5...
Are you, by chance, US military over there?
Yeah, that's a problem when you convert from stereo to 5.1... My logitech's also have a "Stereo x2" mode, where it sends the same volume to both the front and rear speakers...I don't know if yours has a similar mode, but it's great for times when I only have a stereo output...
To support Dolby 5.1, the source has to be recorded in Dolby Digital format. This format is then decoded by the sound processor, and output to the speakers.
Most movies support Dolby 5.1, so you would hear full Dolby 5.1. Games, on the other hand, aren't really a Dolby format, since sounds are generated on the fly, and some games don't support 5.1 at all; it all depends on the source.
The problem with onboard sound cards on a pc is that most older ones only have a single output (headphone) jack, so it can only output stereo. If you have a newer board or a sound card (like a Sound Blaster) with 3 output jacks, or an optical jack, you can output 5.1.
Now, my Logitech speakers have a built in processor, so it will take a stereo signal and output it to the speakers as 5.1. It's not the same quality as if it was originally recorded in 5.1, but it still gives a surround effect. It basically takes the original stereo sound and outputs it at maybe 2/3 volume to the front sattelites, 1/3rd volume to the rear satellites, and full volume to the center and sub...not optimal, but somewhat effective.
You can try setting your reciever to do the same thing. Usually, if you just set it to a movie mode, it will. Otherwise, invest in a Sound Blaster card...you definitely won't be disappointed...
Most movies support Dolby 5.1, so you would hear full Dolby 5.1. Games, on the other hand, aren't really a Dolby format, since sounds are generated on the fly, and some games don't support 5.1 at all; it all depends on the source.
The problem with onboard sound cards on a pc is that most older ones only have a single output (headphone) jack, so it can only output stereo. If you have a newer board or a sound card (like a Sound Blaster) with 3 output jacks, or an optical jack, you can output 5.1.
Now, my Logitech speakers have a built in processor, so it will take a stereo signal and output it to the speakers as 5.1. It's not the same quality as if it was originally recorded in 5.1, but it still gives a surround effect. It basically takes the original stereo sound and outputs it at maybe 2/3 volume to the front sattelites, 1/3rd volume to the rear satellites, and full volume to the center and sub...not optimal, but somewhat effective.
You can try setting your reciever to do the same thing. Usually, if you just set it to a movie mode, it will. Otherwise, invest in a Sound Blaster card...you definitely won't be disappointed...
Ok...I think I have a handle on the whole autosave thing...
Autosave works on multi/single player race events, not practice or hot lapping. I ran a couple events with it on, and a couple with it off, and it seemed to be working right.
I had to hit '1' or '2' to save the practice and hotlap replays (which is what I was doing before...I just somehow forgot overnight).
Thanks again for the help!
Autosave works on multi/single player race events, not practice or hot lapping. I ran a couple events with it on, and a couple with it off, and it seemed to be working right.
I had to hit '1' or '2' to save the practice and hotlap replays (which is what I was doing before...I just somehow forgot overnight).
Thanks again for the help!
Sweet. Thanks. I've run multiplayer online, but not on my local box. I'll try it out tonight...
Thanks for all the help, guys!
Dang it! I must have sat through an hour of replays last night just to get *.raf files of like 3 laps...oh, well...
But, now I'll know for next time! Thanks, Blas89!
But, now I'll know for next time! Thanks, Blas89!
Thanks Dajmin.
I've been pitting by hitting Esc, then clicking 'Pits'. Same thing, I'm guessing.
I'll try it. Can I run the server on my gaming box? If not, I have a colo'd linux box I can set up...just have to figure out the whole Wine thing...
I didn't think that was possible...please don't tell me I've unneedingly sat through 15 laps just to watch my one good one...
I've been pitting by hitting Esc, then clicking 'Pits'. Same thing, I'm guessing.
I'll try it. Can I run the server on my gaming box? If not, I have a colo'd linux box I can set up...just have to figure out the whole Wine thing...
I didn't think that was possible...please don't tell me I've unneedingly sat through 15 laps just to watch my one good one...
Autosave not autosaving?
I have replay autosave enabled, and I just ran a few lapping sessions back to back, making changes in between. (Run, go to pits, run, go to pits, etc. etc.). Now, when I go to view the replays, I just have a single 'temp' spr of the last run I did.
Is this the way it's supposed to work? Do I still have to tell LFS to save the replay before I go to the pits?
Is this the way it's supposed to work? Do I still have to tell LFS to save the replay before I go to the pits?
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG