I thought the whole oscilation/lag issue was related to timing issues.
As in, it takes a small amount of time to send signals back and forth between wheel and simulation.
Which results in a certain amount of milliseconds delay resulting in oscilation.
Current technology will always result in a delay between visual representation, simulation and wheel movement.
cheers,
Willem
As in, it takes a small amount of time to send signals back and forth between wheel and simulation.
Which results in a certain amount of milliseconds delay resulting in oscilation.
Current technology will always result in a delay between visual representation, simulation and wheel movement.
cheers,
Willem
well, just been trying with FF at 25 and did 1.06.92 Which is my PB (it's on LFSW) but i have to say i have had non FF laps with 2nd sector split times of 47.25.
Sadly i always seem to F it up cause the sudden adrenalin rush of seeing a really good split time right before those last 2 corners makes me utterly mess up those corners...didn't take em all that well in this lap either.
Anyways...i don't think with or without FF matters much in times..at least not for me
Cheers,
Willem
Sadly i always seem to F it up cause the sudden adrenalin rush of seeing a really good split time right before those last 2 corners makes me utterly mess up those corners...didn't take em all that well in this lap either.
Anyways...i don't think with or without FF matters much in times..at least not for me
Cheers,
Willem
@DaveWS, Dude...i did read the entire thread and i do get the point(s).
Anyways.
FF just doesn't add a thing for me in the immersion and feel real department.
I'm an old fart, i've driven shitloads of cars in real life....from the boring to seriously fast...and what they have in common is they all feel like cars. And using FF in a sim, be it LFS or not, does not make it feel like a car.
I don't want to take anything away from how the FF in LFS is programmed but to me it's a pile o poopoo, and that goes for FF in all other sims aswel. I think poopoo is simply what current FFB technology allows.
User gives input, signal has to go to sim, sim must pickup signal, sim must compute signal, sim has to send signal back to wheel and so on and so on.
It has to be in perfect sync with what you as a human see or else it will be like just ever so slightly weird etc..etc.
It's like a movie with it's soundtrack just a very very slight bit out of sync....you notice that immediatly and it's annoying as hell.
And that's only the real time issue...not even touching on how correct the effects are.
For the sake of argument i've just driven 20 BLGP laps in the FXR with FF on set to 100.
I'm not slower cause i did a 1.07.14. Actually...i could argue that with the way FF responds to certain understeer- but especially oversteer situations having FF turned on makes it easier because one, at least i am, is less prone to overcontrole and overresponse because you feel a point where wheel resistance returns. Without FF i often feel as if i'm micromanaging the inputs if that term makes sense to anyone.
Cheers,
Willem.
Anyways.
FF just doesn't add a thing for me in the immersion and feel real department.
I'm an old fart, i've driven shitloads of cars in real life....from the boring to seriously fast...and what they have in common is they all feel like cars. And using FF in a sim, be it LFS or not, does not make it feel like a car.
I don't want to take anything away from how the FF in LFS is programmed but to me it's a pile o poopoo, and that goes for FF in all other sims aswel. I think poopoo is simply what current FFB technology allows.
User gives input, signal has to go to sim, sim must pickup signal, sim must compute signal, sim has to send signal back to wheel and so on and so on.
It has to be in perfect sync with what you as a human see or else it will be like just ever so slightly weird etc..etc.
It's like a movie with it's soundtrack just a very very slight bit out of sync....you notice that immediatly and it's annoying as hell.
And that's only the real time issue...not even touching on how correct the effects are.
For the sake of argument i've just driven 20 BLGP laps in the FXR with FF on set to 100.
I'm not slower cause i did a 1.07.14. Actually...i could argue that with the way FF responds to certain understeer- but especially oversteer situations having FF turned on makes it easier because one, at least i am, is less prone to overcontrole and overresponse because you feel a point where wheel resistance returns. Without FF i often feel as if i'm micromanaging the inputs if that term makes sense to anyone.
Cheers,
Willem.
I'm using an old guillemot ferrari FFB wheel. And i'm definatly not turning on FFB. Even the smallest bit of steering lag completely ruins the experience. The oscilating on straights for example....uurgh. It doesn't matter how good FFB is programmed like for example in the netkarpro demo which probably has the best FFB effects i have come acros, you feel a lot and everything seems correct, but it lags. As long as FFB lags...i will not use it...no matter how brilliant the rest of the wheel effects and i doubt a truely lagless wheel will come along soon. And i fail to see how turning on FFB with it's lag issues brings me closer to real life cause i have yet to experience a real life car with steering lag...one of the reasons the remark "turning of FFB is close to cheating" is utter nonsense.
Cheers
Cheers
removed my silly question
Last edited by willemA, .
Having driven offline a bit i'm guessing low 1.07 would be possible for me, doubt i'll ever hit the 1.06 times on BW GP....i can't be arsed hot lapping all day. I had a small period of doing hotlaps right after S2 came out...mostly in the FXR and the UF1..and i tended to hover around 15th place in the hotlap charts regardless of track but i think with U i could do better cause i'm enjoying it way more.
I haven't said i thought U's car behaviour was wrong but just that it is *seriously* different, like cue-ball i to got fed up with the iceskating rear in P (which is the reason i haven't played LFS in 9 months) and turned to playing mainly netkar namie and RBR.....
I really do like U a lot.
That being said..as much as i like the current behaviour of course i do wonder if this is closer to reality than P. All that horse power and i can pick my nose going around the track...to me the complete opposite of P...
cheers,
Willem
I haven't said i thought U's car behaviour was wrong but just that it is *seriously* different, like cue-ball i to got fed up with the iceskating rear in P (which is the reason i haven't played LFS in 9 months) and turned to playing mainly netkar namie and RBR.....
I really do like U a lot.
That being said..as much as i like the current behaviour of course i do wonder if this is closer to reality than P. All that horse power and i can pick my nose going around the track...to me the complete opposite of P...
cheers,
Willem
It sure got easy with U
I hadn't driven since patch P, last time online before yesterday was in August i think. Just now i was in a race at BW GP and in the FXR did a lap of 1.08.79 and i wasn't even trying that hard. I was doing laps like clockwork. I've always been quite consistent thanks to years of GPL but with U I'm way way more consistent compared to pre U...20 laps without even coming close to losing the backend. It has become sooooo easy. Which is kinda....well..strange really....shocking....confusing...
Cheers,
Willem
Cheers,
Willem
Blue flag enforcement
Every LFS will come with a mandatory device which on one side connects to the...errr...private parts...and on the other side to a 110/220v socket. The longer the blue flag is ignored...the higher the voltage aplied to driver.
But since that would be too good to be true...maybe there are some alternatives.
As we know ignoring a blue flag in real life will result in some penalty..drive through..stop and go. I think this would not help much in LFS since most backmarkers probably are not very impressed by a stop and go or drive throughs.
Just as no one except #1 #2 and #3 really care about the 'disqualified' thing.
There might be some alternative ways to enforce blue flags...
(see last paragraph for categories)
Category 1 and 2 are basically here to stay and are impossible to counter unless you start to enforce very serious rules.
But as for category 3 and 4 the following might help.
Give a driver a certain amount of time he can remain blue flagged, lets say 30 seconds.
If the driver is getting blue flagged because he is unlapping himself or because, although he is about to be lapped, is actually faster than the driver behind him he has 30 seconds to drive/pull away and get out of the 'blue flag distance'.
If however he remains in the blue flag distance constantly for these 30 seconds he's either not pulling away at all or only very slowly...in which case he would be given 10 seconds to let the faster car behind him pass.
If he still does not let the car pass there could be all kinds of things one could programm to enforce it.
1) Reduce his torque untill the faster driver has passed (plus a few secs of breathing space)
2) Reduce his topspeed untill the faster driver has passed (plus a few secs of breathing space)
3) game Teleport him to the pits and makes him stay there till end of race.
4) Actually Penalize with a stop and go or drive through and enforce this penalty by making him choose between either "drive through *this* lap" or game teleports you to pits and you will remain there till end of race.
That's just a few options, i could come up with more but i guess the idea is obvious. Oh yes...and for those who feel threatened by something like this, which i'm sure some people will cause oh dear we might have some hardcore options, it could all of course be the choice of the sever administrator to use or not use the options.
Categories:
1)There's the nOOb category, guys who try their best to get out of the way but do it so
strangly it takes a while and they might loose controle over their car and some times even
take you out..i'm "fine" with that...at least they try.
2)Then there's the peolpe at varying stages of skill who simply do not seem to know you're
coming and slam right into you as you try to pass, quite annoying but hey..life stinks and
accidents happen.
3)There's the category who will let you by but only mildly to very reluctantly..and sometimes it can take a lap
before they finally make some room.
4)And then there's that one category, the evil ones, the ones who go "hey, that i'm one lap behind is just a silly misunderstanding..i'm really quicker than you so i'm gonna keep driving and not let you past since i'm better..faster..better looking..smarter..did i mention faster than you"
5)And there's the gentleman drivers, who will make sure you can cleany get by them when they're blue flagged...give em a medal!!
cheers
But since that would be too good to be true...maybe there are some alternatives.
As we know ignoring a blue flag in real life will result in some penalty..drive through..stop and go. I think this would not help much in LFS since most backmarkers probably are not very impressed by a stop and go or drive throughs.
Just as no one except #1 #2 and #3 really care about the 'disqualified' thing.
There might be some alternative ways to enforce blue flags...
(see last paragraph for categories)
Category 1 and 2 are basically here to stay and are impossible to counter unless you start to enforce very serious rules.
But as for category 3 and 4 the following might help.
Give a driver a certain amount of time he can remain blue flagged, lets say 30 seconds.
If the driver is getting blue flagged because he is unlapping himself or because, although he is about to be lapped, is actually faster than the driver behind him he has 30 seconds to drive/pull away and get out of the 'blue flag distance'.
If however he remains in the blue flag distance constantly for these 30 seconds he's either not pulling away at all or only very slowly...in which case he would be given 10 seconds to let the faster car behind him pass.
If he still does not let the car pass there could be all kinds of things one could programm to enforce it.
1) Reduce his torque untill the faster driver has passed (plus a few secs of breathing space)
2) Reduce his topspeed untill the faster driver has passed (plus a few secs of breathing space)
3) game Teleport him to the pits and makes him stay there till end of race.
4) Actually Penalize with a stop and go or drive through and enforce this penalty by making him choose between either "drive through *this* lap" or game teleports you to pits and you will remain there till end of race.
That's just a few options, i could come up with more but i guess the idea is obvious. Oh yes...and for those who feel threatened by something like this, which i'm sure some people will cause oh dear we might have some hardcore options, it could all of course be the choice of the sever administrator to use or not use the options.
Categories:
1)There's the nOOb category, guys who try their best to get out of the way but do it so
strangly it takes a while and they might loose controle over their car and some times even
take you out..i'm "fine" with that...at least they try.
2)Then there's the peolpe at varying stages of skill who simply do not seem to know you're
coming and slam right into you as you try to pass, quite annoying but hey..life stinks and
accidents happen.
3)There's the category who will let you by but only mildly to very reluctantly..and sometimes it can take a lap
before they finally make some room.
4)And then there's that one category, the evil ones, the ones who go "hey, that i'm one lap behind is just a silly misunderstanding..i'm really quicker than you so i'm gonna keep driving and not let you past since i'm better..faster..better looking..smarter..did i mention faster than you"
5)And there's the gentleman drivers, who will make sure you can cleany get by them when they're blue flagged...give em a medal!!
cheers
Last edited by willemA, .
@dave_w11, things have not improved, the restartretards keep pushing 'restart' till the limiter runs out.
I'm completely fed up with the T1 wreckers and the restart retards.
Personally i think restarts are a major pain the the butt.
Quite a percentage of drivers can't manage to not mess it up in T1 or even on the straight leading to and going from a T1...and i'm even more fed up with people immediatly pushing restart as soon as they go off.
As the initial poster says,and i agree, it's usually the people causing a major wreck fest who vote restart...
If you can't make it through turn 1 without wrecking or being wrecked it's tough luck...get your car back on the grey part and drive on.
No reset car, no teleport to pit, no restart, no nothing...
Ive been in busy races where i got punted of in T1, got back on the road and drove on to win, just because everyone keeps on teleporting to the pit as soon as they make a mistake or get punted of the track. People should drive.
Right now most public LFS races are mostly "wreck/pit/exit pit/car reset" fests.
Just give the servers the option of 'no restarts'...
I'm completely fed up with the T1 wreckers and the restart retards.
Personally i think restarts are a major pain the the butt.
Quite a percentage of drivers can't manage to not mess it up in T1 or even on the straight leading to and going from a T1...and i'm even more fed up with people immediatly pushing restart as soon as they go off.
As the initial poster says,and i agree, it's usually the people causing a major wreck fest who vote restart...
If you can't make it through turn 1 without wrecking or being wrecked it's tough luck...get your car back on the grey part and drive on.
No reset car, no teleport to pit, no restart, no nothing...
Ive been in busy races where i got punted of in T1, got back on the road and drove on to win, just because everyone keeps on teleporting to the pit as soon as they make a mistake or get punted of the track. People should drive.
Right now most public LFS races are mostly "wreck/pit/exit pit/car reset" fests.
Just give the servers the option of 'no restarts'...
Some good points made by people.
I'm gonna be somewhat annoying here, but it seems to me as if (as in...it's only my opinion) the developers are not offering some options to server admins to prevent that server admins have the power to (r)eject certain type of drivers..
As it is now even the really bad drivers can get,and stay, on any server....and without much of a penalty at all can bring havoc race after race after race(except for when an admin is around...which is rarely).
It really seems as if the majority of people, who want clean racing, have to endure the wreckers and people who can't be bothered even practising a circuit offline just because those wreckers and 'non motivated' people payed for the game too.
Just the option of no button pit and no reset as Cue-Ball mentioned would probably help a lot.
Those are easy to implement...and have been requested often but still they're not there for the admin to use.
And yes...i know it's a very very smal dev team...and things take time.
I really don't care how it's done, but i would really like to see something which at least in some way or form penalizes bad driving.
To me it seem as if the devs are not interested in at least giving an admin the options to achieve a cleaner racing experience on their server.
Sorry i'm being harsh...
By the way, whats the Racing status thing you're talking about Bob?
Cheers.
I'm gonna be somewhat annoying here, but it seems to me as if (as in...it's only my opinion) the developers are not offering some options to server admins to prevent that server admins have the power to (r)eject certain type of drivers..
As it is now even the really bad drivers can get,and stay, on any server....and without much of a penalty at all can bring havoc race after race after race(except for when an admin is around...which is rarely).
It really seems as if the majority of people, who want clean racing, have to endure the wreckers and people who can't be bothered even practising a circuit offline just because those wreckers and 'non motivated' people payed for the game too.
Just the option of no button pit and no reset as Cue-Ball mentioned would probably help a lot.
Those are easy to implement...and have been requested often but still they're not there for the admin to use.
And yes...i know it's a very very smal dev team...and things take time.
I really don't care how it's done, but i would really like to see something which at least in some way or form penalizes bad driving.
To me it seem as if the devs are not interested in at least giving an admin the options to achieve a cleaner racing experience on their server.
Sorry i'm being harsh...
By the way, whats the Racing status thing you're talking about Bob?
Cheers.
I fail to see the similairity between this and votekick.
I hardly ever initiate a kick or vote for someone else to be kicked, because unless i'm witness to an incident there's simply no way to tell if a votekick is fair.
Except for the compulsive 'yes' repliers to a kickvote i think most people will not just vote to kick people without knowing or having seen why...which is why wreckers often can keep on driving around.
Options like this would simply remove people based on fixed criteria...which can be set by the server owner.
And i still would like to see some real arguments from you guys as to why this would be bad options....
I hardly ever initiate a kick or vote for someone else to be kicked, because unless i'm witness to an incident there's simply no way to tell if a votekick is fair.
Except for the compulsive 'yes' repliers to a kickvote i think most people will not just vote to kick people without knowing or having seen why...which is why wreckers often can keep on driving around.
Options like this would simply remove people based on fixed criteria...which can be set by the server owner.
And i still would like to see some real arguments from you guys as to why this would be bad options....
Care to elaborate on your opinion?...
Why do you think it's a bad idea?..since something like this would strictly be an administrator's choice, so not every server would use it...maybe hardly any servers would use it...
A simple nod smily really isn't very usefull...
Why do you think it's a bad idea?..since something like this would strictly be an administrator's choice, so not every server would use it...maybe hardly any servers would use it...
A simple nod smily really isn't very usefull...
An Illudium Q36 explosive space n00b ejector
Ok..lousy title..so i watch too much bugs bunny 
I've noticed that just about every server i ever joined doesn't have an administrator present.
Yesterday i was on ASN, there was one guy who in one lap:
Pushed me out in T1, then slammed into someone's tail, slammed into someone else tail, slid off the track taking 1 person with him in the process, tried to get back on track and wadda ya know he takes someone out again, tried again to get back on the trackand takes another one out, slide of track..get back on...slide off.
So i was thinking, although some might say this is sorta harsh on new people, maybe we could have some form of "automatic unwanted person" remover.
Lets take BPGP as an example, if you can't do a lap in an FZR with a laptime
of below for example 1.20 you basically should be practising offline.
*The admin gets to set a cetain minimum lap time which he thinks is acceptable, for example 1.20.00 if he has a heart for new drivers, 1.12.00 if he only wants faster drivers, and so on.
*The admin can set this time as a general overall time, or he can specify a minimum laptime per car type.
*The admin can also choose to set this time,or maybe a seperate time, as the minimum qualifying lap time.
*The admin can then set the number of race laps the player has to drive faster than the required race lap time, for example 7 out of 10 laps.
*When a player fails to meet these minimums the admin can choose to either
-remove the player from the race and from the server for an administrator chosen length of time, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever the administrator sets.
-remove the player from the current race but leave the player on the server so he can try again the next race.
-remove the player from the current race but leave the player on the server for xx more races...where xx is the number of races that the player can try again and fail again. For example, if someone messes up 3 races in a row they'll be removed from the server.
*The admin can set how many times a player is allowed to enter and/or leave the pit by pressing a shortcut button, as in...the player entering the pits without actually drving into it.
(And now for the part which i'm sure mostly everyone will hate
*The admin could set a minimum first lap laptime, failing to meet this laptime could result in any of the above.
That would make surviving T1 much more important than it is now.
Anyways, all this would require a decent intro screen informing the connecting player of the rules and minimums on this server. And each and every option should be the admins choice. An intro screen with server info would be a welcome thing anyways.
Maybe all the above is too harsh, or just a shitty idea.
But the least thing out of it could be that people would be inclined to practise a certain circuit offline, instead of doing their practise online and causing havoc.
I have nothing against slower drivers, but when i lap someone 3 times in a 10 lap race i really wonder what they're doing on that track.
cheers
I've noticed that just about every server i ever joined doesn't have an administrator present.
Yesterday i was on ASN, there was one guy who in one lap:
Pushed me out in T1, then slammed into someone's tail, slammed into someone else tail, slid off the track taking 1 person with him in the process, tried to get back on track and wadda ya know he takes someone out again, tried again to get back on the trackand takes another one out, slide of track..get back on...slide off.
So i was thinking, although some might say this is sorta harsh on new people, maybe we could have some form of "automatic unwanted person" remover.
Lets take BPGP as an example, if you can't do a lap in an FZR with a laptime
of below for example 1.20 you basically should be practising offline.
*The admin gets to set a cetain minimum lap time which he thinks is acceptable, for example 1.20.00 if he has a heart for new drivers, 1.12.00 if he only wants faster drivers, and so on.
*The admin can set this time as a general overall time, or he can specify a minimum laptime per car type.
*The admin can also choose to set this time,or maybe a seperate time, as the minimum qualifying lap time.
*The admin can then set the number of race laps the player has to drive faster than the required race lap time, for example 7 out of 10 laps.
*When a player fails to meet these minimums the admin can choose to either
-remove the player from the race and from the server for an administrator chosen length of time, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever the administrator sets.
-remove the player from the current race but leave the player on the server so he can try again the next race.
-remove the player from the current race but leave the player on the server for xx more races...where xx is the number of races that the player can try again and fail again. For example, if someone messes up 3 races in a row they'll be removed from the server.
*The admin can set how many times a player is allowed to enter and/or leave the pit by pressing a shortcut button, as in...the player entering the pits without actually drving into it.
(And now for the part which i'm sure mostly everyone will hate
*The admin could set a minimum first lap laptime, failing to meet this laptime could result in any of the above.
That would make surviving T1 much more important than it is now.
Anyways, all this would require a decent intro screen informing the connecting player of the rules and minimums on this server. And each and every option should be the admins choice. An intro screen with server info would be a welcome thing anyways.
Maybe all the above is too harsh, or just a shitty idea.
But the least thing out of it could be that people would be inclined to practise a certain circuit offline, instead of doing their practise online and causing havoc.
I have nothing against slower drivers, but when i lap someone 3 times in a 10 lap race i really wonder what they're doing on that track.
cheers
I did do a search...that one didn't come up. Thanks for the link.
option to turn of sounds/messages in multi
Mutiplayer.
All the sounds when people join...when they chat...when they pit...and so on. I know you can turn of the messages but all the join/pit stuff can't be turned of as far as i know.
Sometimes this is really distracting and i'd really enjoy it when it could all be turned off.
Cheers
All the sounds when people join...when they chat...when they pit...and so on. I know you can turn of the messages but all the join/pit stuff can't be turned of as far as i know.
Sometimes this is really distracting and i'd really enjoy it when it could all be turned off.
Cheers
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG