shamefully slow ... like 45 or 43 dont really remember
shamefully slow ... like 45 or 43 dont really remember
It is 'better' than before but you just feel they got the most out of an inferior physics engine rather than making a realistic sim.
This short lfs video is another good point against ISI.. Be it GTR or GTR2 or some of the more modern GTL cars, it is just impossible to steer your way out of donuts while keeping the power on. As if the front tyres and their steering doesn't have anything to do with the equations..
Do some donuts in GTR2 and apply opposite lock.. You'll do donuts.. exactly the same ones, only if you really let go of the gas will something happen. With LFS, also with slicks, the big round thing in front of the driver actually does something. I don't yet think LFS is 'great' but it certainly behaves better in many situations.
That said, GTR2 seems drivable and more believable... but the flaws and 'on limit' behaviour are just not right.
This short lfs video is another good point against ISI.. Be it GTR or GTR2 or some of the more modern GTL cars, it is just impossible to steer your way out of donuts while keeping the power on. As if the front tyres and their steering doesn't have anything to do with the equations..
Do some donuts in GTR2 and apply opposite lock.. You'll do donuts.. exactly the same ones, only if you really let go of the gas will something happen. With LFS, also with slicks, the big round thing in front of the driver actually does something. I don't yet think LFS is 'great' but it certainly behaves better in many situations.
That said, GTR2 seems drivable and more believable... but the flaws and 'on limit' behaviour are just not right.
Its called momentum..
I still can't get over the curb feeling. 
In the end I'll get used to the FF and I'll live with the sounds. The curbs are dreadful to ride. Otherwise, I'd say its actually quite an enjoyable sim. How good it is is another story - there are still ways to "break" the physics engine under some conditions. You just know the car wouldn't behave like that. Having spent some more time with it, I'd rate it on par with netKar-Pro but not quite up there with LFS. I'll spend some more time with it tomorrow though. Maybe it feels like it does because of the setup I'm using...
@steve - but "the big round thing in front of the driver" as Neils put it should be able to overcome this momentum.
In the end I'll get used to the FF and I'll live with the sounds. The curbs are dreadful to ride. Otherwise, I'd say its actually quite an enjoyable sim. How good it is is another story - there are still ways to "break" the physics engine under some conditions. You just know the car wouldn't behave like that. Having spent some more time with it, I'd rate it on par with netKar-Pro but not quite up there with LFS. I'll spend some more time with it tomorrow though. Maybe it feels like it does because of the setup I'm using...
@steve - but "the big round thing in front of the driver" as Neils put it should be able to overcome this momentum.
its below nkp axus ... nk has proper ffb
Yeah, rethinking that, you're probably right.
I just gave it a go, it feels ok I guess. I didnt really race it all that long so cant really give a honest opinion yet, but I plan to do giving it another go later on. I havent played GTR in quite a while so can someone re-fresh me as to how to go about seeing your fp's? I looked for it, but couldnt find it. (prolly didnt look hard enough) Thank's! 
Hi Niels.
I am always interested in your comments, because you seem to try proving things like me
But this time I have to disagree. I noticed the big flaw in rFactor in your old sig too. It is impossible to countersteer out of a drift in some situations. But I really think they fixed it a lot in GTR2 ...
Watch these 2 videos. Same kind of car, tyres and same situation :
http://rapidshare.de/files/26572368/GTR2Demo.wmv.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/26572468/LFS.wmv.html
You'll notice, that LFS and GTR2 behave very similar. In both simulations the countersteering has an effect ... in both I didn't go off the throttle, but left the donut ...
I really think GTR2 is much more spot on than GTR1 and very similar to LFS. But the atmosphere is a lot closer to real life motorsports. Because of the tracks, because of the cars, because of the cockpits, because of the sounds, because of the weather change, because of the day-night transition, because of the whole events with training, qualifying, formation lap and so on and so on ...
I couldn't find a real flaw in the GTR2 physics. Perhabs cars are flying a bit strange, but not as strange as in LFS, where cars suddenly accelerate to 1000 kph, if contacting another car or wall because of the collision code and spinning a thousand times per second.
Much more important, than the graphics of crashing is the effect on racing. Crashing with 150 kph or more into a wall ... and you won't continue to race unlike in LFS. Graphics isn't as important as the simulation aspect in my oppinion.
Just my 5 cents ...
Greetings
RIP
my best lap 1:38:266 with lamborgini but bots made 1:36 
what wheel do you have lol? with the dfp if you throw a a car into a corner in nkp the wheel doesnt try to correct itself like it does in lfs/rbr/DR.I would agree nK has got better FF and feels less obviously effect driven although it does seem to have been designed to attempt to destroy DFPs.
well yes except for understeering
still nkps ffb is a lot less canned and a lot more lfs than the one in gtr
then again do you mean oversteer ? cause im pretty sure nkp countersteers by itself albeit a lot less pronounced than in lfs
it doesnt countersteer at all on its own when oversteering. it just sits there.
^^ Went and tested this, nK Pro doesn't countersteer automatically but the wheel does go light and you can certainly tell when it's coming round and you apply opposite lock automatically, which is where it differs from GTR. It actually took me a couple of laps to work out it wasn't counter steering because I couldn't help but put opposite lock on.
Just found this post on RSC, somebody contacted a GT driver and got this response. Could be interesting for LFS as well, the GTRs could really do with a non-optional automatic throttle cut on upshift.
Hmmm. I dunno. I don't have the time to play many video games anymore,
So I'm really not interested to begin with. But if I was looking for a new game,
I wouldn't even think twice about that title. If any game is that much of a hassle to deal with like what y'all seem to be going thru with this GTR demo,
I'd stay the hell away from it. I mean in this day and age, computer games
should not have any problems loading up on just about any computer out there within reason. If it's all that frustrating just to try & play for the average user, then what's the point in playing it?
So I'm really not interested to begin with. But if I was looking for a new game,
I wouldn't even think twice about that title. If any game is that much of a hassle to deal with like what y'all seem to be going thru with this GTR demo,
I'd stay the hell away from it. I mean in this day and age, computer games
should not have any problems loading up on just about any computer out there within reason. If it's all that frustrating just to try & play for the average user, then what's the point in playing it?
Quite agree can't believe they still haven't sorted these issues it seems they haven't bothered to look at it even though I'm not the only one who had these problems posted last time round. And the best one was in the GTL demo when there were threads and threads about why the bloody E-Type wouldn't work the official word given was this is an issolated problem (despite having a thread full of people with it) so we suggest you just use the other cars and buy the game then with any luck some of the cars will work
illepallYour GT Legends videos are a perfect example of how I personally was expecting more from the sounds in GTR2. GTL has way better sounds. A real race car has a sound that sounds like the exhaust is going to vibrate until it shatters.
At first I had problems to find all aids that were enabled. The first 15 minutes of GTR2 were devoted to finding aids and disabling them. Wow. - ...By the way I still didn't manage to disable the ghostcar in time-trial mode, and it creeps the hell out of me.
On the track GTR2 felt and looked like a GTLegends-clone. I didn't try GTR1, so I can only compare with GTLegends. The weight-shifting is still exactly the same. Go off the gas and it turns neutrally, a slight amount of gas fixes the car to a set angle of understeer. I didn't manage to make the car oversteer with trail-braking.
Acceleration has changed over GTLegends. Now at corner exit the amount of gas directly translates into lower forces on the wheel. The name of the game is balancing the force on the wheel with the gas. I think this tries to reproduce the slip-angle-behaviour of a loaded tyre. It's fun, but doesn't feel right (to me).
Braking in corners is largely the same as in GTLegends. This seems to always result in understeer which is represented by a slight shaking of the wheel and otherwise no change to the car physics. Though I noticed that turning with full lock gives slightly less cornering than normal driving. This is an improvement over GTLegends.
I found the sounds to be pretty boring. Of course I can't bash GTR2 for that because LFS's sounds also suck, but I wouldn't choose the GTR2 sounds over the LFS sounds. They both suck.
Vain
On the track GTR2 felt and looked like a GTLegends-clone. I didn't try GTR1, so I can only compare with GTLegends. The weight-shifting is still exactly the same. Go off the gas and it turns neutrally, a slight amount of gas fixes the car to a set angle of understeer. I didn't manage to make the car oversteer with trail-braking.
Acceleration has changed over GTLegends. Now at corner exit the amount of gas directly translates into lower forces on the wheel. The name of the game is balancing the force on the wheel with the gas. I think this tries to reproduce the slip-angle-behaviour of a loaded tyre. It's fun, but doesn't feel right (to me).
Braking in corners is largely the same as in GTLegends. This seems to always result in understeer which is represented by a slight shaking of the wheel and otherwise no change to the car physics. Though I noticed that turning with full lock gives slightly less cornering than normal driving. This is an improvement over GTLegends.
I found the sounds to be pretty boring. Of course I can't bash GTR2 for that because LFS's sounds also suck, but I wouldn't choose the GTR2 sounds over the LFS sounds. They both suck.
Vain
Graphics aren't impressive at all, making something look good in high resolution isn't exactly an achievement, GTR2 in low resolution looks worse in a DX9/high mix then a DX8/medium one. 20-30fps everywhere for me in DX8/medium/no rain, no real difference between an empty track and a full grid start. FPS is higher while not driving for some reason (replays). Tried racing in the rain once, but i spun on the grid with 2 fps and didn't really feel like trying again. I've just played thru Dreamfall which has spiffy DX9 graphics, bumpmapped reflective "wet" pavement in the rain etc. running at about 25 fps on my system, so GTR2 definitely does something wrong.
Sound is alright with >20 fps, but to me sounds of surrounding cars are for some reason really awful, very vague and impossible to place in "3d". Physics are okay apart from some kind of lag between my inputs and something actually happening, countersteering works sometimes but it's really hard to get a feel for when the car is going to react. FFB is poor, it does give the feeling that you're somehow connected to the car, but not that the steering wheel is in any way connected to the wheels.
But worst of all, after doing about 4 races and a few hotlap sessions in both cars-- seen and waited for the track to load about 10 times, it's just too annoying to keep playing knowing that lfs would've only loaded the track one single time, not that it takes very long, it's just really badly designed.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dWyyHGMJ6mc
o rly?
Sound is alright with >20 fps, but to me sounds of surrounding cars are for some reason really awful, very vague and impossible to place in "3d". Physics are okay apart from some kind of lag between my inputs and something actually happening, countersteering works sometimes but it's really hard to get a feel for when the car is going to react. FFB is poor, it does give the feeling that you're somehow connected to the car, but not that the steering wheel is in any way connected to the wheels.
But worst of all, after doing about 4 races and a few hotlap sessions in both cars-- seen and waited for the track to load about 10 times, it's just too annoying to keep playing knowing that lfs would've only loaded the track one single time, not that it takes very long, it's just really badly designed.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dWyyHGMJ6mc
o rly?
You can use GTL tracks in this demo. I've been racing around the 'ring, bathurst and the old hockenheim.
Hmmm, in the game options, before you start a game, there were buttons to disable each one of them. It took me 5 seconds to disable them. And later I found that there were separate buttons on top of these: "amateur / semi-pro / advanced / ...". So there was an even quicker way.
The Saleen is much better to drive than the other two demo cars. Someone on RSC posted how to get it working:
Is this legit, if I own GTL? Probably not if I bothered to read the ToCs I agreed to on install. But if it is, do the tracks from GTR (which I can't use due to Simbin not updating the starforce drivers to x64 compatible) also work?
So far I've had some fun thrashing around in GTR2 demo. The AI may not be too clever, but at least they don't spam! If it's netcode isn't light and day ahead of it's predecessors it won't pose much threat to LFS for my online racing time, but it's still fun to race some real tracks/cars that are made to a professional standard (something the advocats of rF mods seem to forget - most of the mods are a shit quality).
Much as I curse simbin for dumping support of GTR, I may well be fool enough to get GTR2 for some fun offline racing. Why change the habit of a lifetime? It just pains me that I've already given Simbin more than twice what Scavier have asked for, and I'm about to dump almost another $50 in their lap. LFS is way too cheap!
Well it's actually kind of an extreme believable accident that you may see IRL, bit better than LFS in that respect
EDIT - Oh god the GTR community :doh: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=261042
LFS community GTR2 Demo try-out?
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