Quote from Breizh :

Shotglass, you'll roll back if you don't hold the brakes as you leave it in 1st and keep the clutch up to restart the engine.
Chickenlanes still exist.

in the first moment youll stand still with the engine stopping you ... and i dont think anybody will press the clutch without braking first in such a situation it just doesnt happen
ive seen some rubbish driving but nobody ever was stupid enough to roll back on a hill

Quote from Shotglass :

in the first moment youll stand still with the engine stopping you ... and i dont think anybody will press the clutch without braking first in such a situation it just doesnt happen
ive seen some rubbish driving but nobody ever was stupid enough to roll back on a hill

Well it's usually someone who drives an automatic who thinks people do stuff like that because they cannot drive.

tweaker seems up to the task.

after all, he is already using some pretty unorthodox methods

Quote from Tweaker :

it is a good safety measure to have the car in low gear and to pump the parking brake whenever needed.

Yeah, I'll pass on that saftey messure on the basis that it burns more fuel to tour around in a low gear, and people will think you either have some gay lights that blink and ignore your brake lights, or think you're having some sort of fit and call the police to get you taken off the roads.

he was talking about going downhill, specificaly.

Ah, haha, makes slightly more sense then, I thought he ment all the time or something. Though I just use the motor to slow down the car and only brake when I need to or there is a corner. Never tried pumping the foot brake though. Wonder if it's easier.

you mean hand brake.

is there something with the world today? is there less oxygen in the air leading to neuron misfires?

(just kidding, by the way... )

No, the foot brake. The one that turns on the brake lights when you use it. I've never used the hand brake when moving only to stop the car rolling down the street at traffic lights and such.

Quote from george_tsiros :

he was talking about going downhill, specificaly.

jupp ... really a good idea to use the handbrake when going downhill ... with the rear wheels being more or less unloaded itll be a lot more fun than pulling the handbrake on a flat surface

Germans must be immune to it, I've seen it many times.

wow, what an idiot. I'm pretty sure that i could do better than that just from watching my dad shift. kid was almost as stupid as Jakg

hahah what a idiot

Quote from Tweaker :

So...

Stalling when stopped at a light, and the car behind you thinks you will be moving and rear ends you, then that is an accident.

Stalling or not being quick enough at a light on a hill and rolling back into the car behind you, then that is an accident.

Stalling in bumper to bumper traffic on a freeway/highway, and you can cause accidents behind you.

Plenty of more examples, and I don't see how it is pointless. And in all these situations, they are in tight traffic where you can feel very cramped. If you mess up, there is a higher chance something will happen. Recovering from one wouldn't still be enough time if the person behind you cannot react quicker.

Manual is far more prone to causing accidents, and just because you've 'mastered' the stick, doesn't mean we are incompetent from using automatic... that is so absurd and ignorant on your part.... especially when you are trying to claim that manual is never problematic of stalling or never unsafe :rolleyes: Anything can happen on the road with automatic or stick, and if you put an experienced stick driver behind the wheel many incidents could still happen -- it's not like you are 100% perfect every shift and every movement. Automatic would provide you with your hands on the wheel at all times

Late Quote

OK some people do stall yes, it's just life, you can't always be perfect, but most drivers who are behind those who stall are usually already on the ball and are on the brakes, and most accidents aren't caused by those who stall. I feel learning to drive a manual will be a challenge for someone who is starting out, but that's what life is all about learning new things and mastering them. If you stuck an american 'auto' user in one of our Euro boxes they'd burn the clutch out because they had been used to being lazy and not learning that there is other cars out there you have to work at to get it moving other than pushing down a pedal to make it move.

Quote from george_tsiros :

why are you calling the kid an idiot? how could you expect a 14 year old to know how to control a car?

Well, If he doesn't know that left is clutch, middle is brake and right is acceleration pedal...
I mean... If he did brake nothing would happen (or almost nothing)

Quote from Shotglass :

you dont know what traffic truly is until youve driven a car in an italian city

We actually dont have traffic in Italy.
We have caos.

In my small province 75% of the crashes are made by American people of the local Nato Base. (Province population close to 200.000 Air force guys close to 10.000) I see very very stupid accidents by American guys but i see also very very "undishiplined" accidents by Italians (by undishiplined i mean dont respect signals, limits etc..)

About the clip i think that the father it's an idiot.

Quote :

So...

Stalling when stopped at a light, and the car behind you thinks you will be moving and rear ends you, then that is an accident.

Stalling or not being quick enough at a light on a hill and rolling back into the car behind you, then that is an accident.

Stalling in bumper to bumper traffic on a freeway/highway, and you can cause accidents behind you.

Never seen or heard of something similar.

So just how rare are manual gearboxes in America?

We see lots of Scandinavian rally drivers, and we attribute it to their road system. We see lots of Irish racing drivers, and we attribute that to their road system too.

What we dont see is that many American drivers in international race series, is that perhaps because of their common transmission system? Or is it just a prefference for home grown series?

Personally I couldn't imagine driving without 3 pedals, I left foot brake and heal and toe out of habbit, often when I really dont need too - I have 3 pedals, and 2 feet, so i'll use any foot on any pedal without much of a second thought, or press two pedals with one foot - i'm really not fussed, whatever gets the job done.

Quote from Becky Rose :

What we dont see is that many American drivers in international race series, is that perhaps because of their common transmission system? Or is it just a prefference for home grown series?

I think Clarkson says it best when he says it:
"Anything anyone does is done better by Europians."

American race drivers just don't have the gusto to keep up with the Euro scene.

I can't imagine that Mustang doesn't have an interlock where the clutch must be fully depressed before the engine will start, but if it doesn't I can easily see how that kid would have done that. I'm guessing that Mustang has more than enough torque to start in first gear, and as soon as it started rolling, I'm sure the kid had no idea what to do and panicked.

I'm guessing the dad wasn't actually expecting whoever got in the car to start it and drive it, I'm sure he was just letting whoever it was sit in the driver's seat so they could feel all cool and whatever. He probably left it in first gear so it wouldn't roll, (I always leave cars with manuals in first when I park on flat surfaces, saves wear on your handbrake cable, and you don't have to worry about your handbrake cable freezing up in the winter, which does happen where I live.)

In short, both the father and the kid are at fault, the father should have been paying more attention to the kid in the car, like actually standing there and watching, and the kid is completely stupid to start the engine in the driveway not having any idea what he's doing.

Now, on to the handbrake comments. In many cars, the handbrake operates a small set of drum brakes behind the rear rotors, my car is this way, as are many others that I've inspected. On some, usually higher performance cars, the handbrake operates another set of calipers on the rear brake rotors, the Porsche Carrera GT and the Noble M12 GTO3R are like this.

On cars with drum type handbrakes, the handbrake may help a little in a last ditch situation with either faded brakes or a cut brakeline. A handbrake as always cable operated, so if your hydraulic brake system does get a puncture or lose pressure, the handbrake still works.

To whomever said that you don't need to use a low gear decending in the mountains has clearly never driven in the mountains, there is no way your brakes would survive otherwise. I have personally followed people in the mountans that don't know how to use a lower gear, and it is pretty frightening, seeing a truck's brakes on fire at the bottom of a mountain pass is enough to convince me....

Quote from Becky Rose :

What we dont see is that many American drivers in international race series, is that perhaps because of their common transmission system? Or is it just a prefference for home grown series?

Well this has to do alot with the "automotive culture".
Look at the map and compare the size of the US with Europe.

For the US the car is first a tool to travel large distances (often insanely large for European standards) and then a means to entertainment. Since it has been embraced from early on as such it's also a major part of the culture.

There are many many many racetracks on the American continent and it's easier to follow a series there than having to go around the world while maintaining a sense of being world famous at the same time (you can travel up to 5 timezones across and still you'll be known).

However, there have been quite a few motorcycle race champions from the US (easier to move a bike crew around?) - including the current MotoGP champion.

EDIT:
As an afterthought... The US didn't really become "hot" on international motorcycle racing until after Kenny Roberts became a champ in the late 70s. So perhaps it's also a matter of getting the attention of the racers - if there is a very succesful american driver in some series then perhaps it'll get attention, otherwise they just stick to their local racing.

I wonder how many americans tried to get into F1 after Mario Andretti... hmmm...

Dad in vid - idiot.
Manual - rules!
Auto - ok in the city, rubbish everywhere else. Mrs Hank's '04 Subi Forester handles pretty well (for a station wagon) but I hate having the slushbox when I hit a nice road with corners. I constantly find myself shifting gears like with a proper transmission - she doesn't know why I bother, but I can't help it - I think it's genetic. I do like the cruise control though. Certainly makes the Christmas road trip (18+ hours there and back again) less tiring.

We moved house recently and rented a 3-tonne manual diesel truck to get the job done. I was so chuffed to have a proper transmission in my life again I didn't even mind that the thing handled like a gigantic squid *sigh* Being between cars sucks...but soon (hopefully) I shall have a Mini (old, UK) in my life again.

As far as large distances go, we Aussies can relate to the US on that score. We have some massive distances to cover here, a lot of it on long straight roads. Because of that, large, comfy, powerful cars are the norm here. We do tend to have a decent mix of manual and auto cars though, unlike the US which seems to favour the slushy.
I grew up in a hilly area, and Dad collected Minis for a time (I also hung out a lot with my cousin who still collects any cheap rusty box with wheels - he has more Morris Minors & 1100s than any man should have), so I've grown to love corners, smaller cars and proper gearboxes, rather than the usual Aussie 3.8L V6 4-door sedan. It was a bitch learning to drive manual in the early days, but once you get it you don't forget it. Besides, all the cars on our property were manuals so there wasn't a lot of choice. An "automatic" was some mythical beast grampa drove To me, manual just means "normal"

Quote from 96 GTS :

A handbrake as always cable operated, so if your hydraulic brake system does get a puncture or lose pressure, the handbrake still works.

not true ... with disc brakes the handbrake often operates an indipendet hydraulic system

Quote from Shotglass :

not true ... with disc brakes the handbrake often operates an indipendet hydraulic system

Yes, you are correct, sorry. I was more referring to drum type handbrakes but yes, ones that operate using your brake rotors can be hydraulic. It's still a seperate system though

Also, some cars that have 4x discs can have separate small brake drums in the rear just for the handbrake. Many Volvos and BMW have this system.

But if you have discs in the rear, that doesn't mean your handbrake is always hydraulic. My Nissan had discs in the back and it didn't have a hydraulic handbrake. I'm pretty sure it didn't have separate drum brakes for the handbrake either.

i just came across this thread and i´m not reading the 100 previous posts, so pardon me if i´m repeating something that someone has already said.


the last few imports i´ve owned wouldn´t even let a car start in gear without activating a "clutch interlock override". yet another reason to not buy domestic. (ford, gm, crysler in this case as i´m in canada)

Japanese and German

speedfreak227

Rust & Unreliability eh I'd rather go for British & Italian....

Edit: *looks out window to knackered Swedish car*.