It's not even lack of experience. It's the youthful mentality of feeling invulnerable that's the problem. They (and I did to, and still do to some extent some of the time) feel that they can go round corners much quicker, and brake much later than older road users. They think they can mess about in cars, park them in silly places, push in in queues, and generally misbehave. They don't think twice about weaving through traffic to get ahead of 'slow people' (until someone like me blocks their move)...

Everyone realises that to get experience you have to start with none. And everyone realises that cars ARE required in some areas because mankind is unable to run decent public transport systems more than 100m from a city centre. But what people DON'T like is the attitude young people have on the roads.

Yes, there are exceptions. You may be one of them. But laws and rules are made to suit the majority, not the exception. Perhaps you can get a bike licence Jakq, and then have full speed transport whilst your peers are stuck in buses and parents' cars.

Guys, maybe you should read the article before getting all upset

The Relevant section:

Quote :

Consultation on the revamp is due to begin "imminently".

It's currently just some MPs and newspapers, safety groups, trying to get some changes made. Even if they manage to get the consultation started, it still has to come up with it's results, and then it still has to go through the process of any actual changes being made.
I'd expect any changes, if any, will be a couple of years away at least.

I still think it would be good for them to raise the age limit because wait till there more responsible and careful...They should at the DMV have a car simulator, me and my dad was talking about that awhile ago. The driving should be about 25 min long maby.

Quote from mcgas001 :

I dont know if this is true, but i also read that the test is changing slightly too. There are adding night driving and motorway driving. ill try get a source(sure it was newspaper)..


E: Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag ... 34149&in_page_id=1770

This would be a great addition IMO. I've lost count how many times I've been bowling down the M25 / A41 on the way to work and someone pull out to overtake. It appears that if you're lucky, they'll check their mirrors, but 99% of the time, fail to _read_ what's in the mirror. Just because they're poodling along at 50mph possibly reaching 55mph for the overtaking maneuvers (although highly unlikely) doesn't mean that everyone is and by the time you flash your lights, it's too late and time to stamp on the brakes. When they _finally_ decide they're going to pull back into their original lane (if 3 lanes available, this will _always_ be the middle one ) they look out their window offering hand gestures

I did a separate single lesson after I'd passed my test which took me out on the M4 at ~19:00 (January) which served both purposes, although the M4 was a little quieter back then.

I wish they'd drum into people what the national speed limit means too. It doesn't mean 40mph

My entire test was "read that number plate 20" away over there".. 20 mins driving about, 5 questions from the highway code (of which I got the first, obvious one wrong) and got told "congratulations Mr.H"



Regards,

Ian

Just booked my test for the 9th of April

eeep

Quote from Ian.H :

This would be a great addition IMO. I've lost count how many times I've been bowling down the M25 / A41 on the way to work and someone pull out to overtake. It appears that if you're lucky, they'll check their mirrors, but 99% of the time, fail to _read_ what's in the mirror. Just because they're poodling along at 50mph possibly reaching 55mph for the overtaking maneuvers (although highly unlikely) doesn't mean that everyone is and by the time you flash your lights, it's too late and time to stamp on the brakes. When they _finally_ decide they're going to pull back into their original lane (if 3 lanes available, this will _always_ be the middle one ) they look out their window offering hand gestures

I did a separate single lesson after I'd passed my test which took me out on the M4 at ~19:00 (January) which served both purposes, although the M4 was a little quieter back then.

I wish they'd drum into people what the national speed limit means too. It doesn't mean 40mph

My entire test was "read that number plate 20" away over there".. 20 mins driving about, 5 questions from the highway code (of which I got the first, obvious one wrong) and got told "congratulations Mr.H"



Regards,

Ian

Well, ive only just passed my test. My step-dad has said he will take me down the M4 just to slough or reading and then back again, Just to get a little feel of the motorway etc etc. I do agree, the licence entitles you to go on the motorway and yet there is not one bit of training for it. Kinda stupid really...

Quote from Jakg :

Of course sometimes you'll always get the retards that jump over a humpback bridge (30 MPH limit) at 100 mph

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes, there are exceptions. You may be one of them. But laws and rules are made to suit the majority, not the exception. Perhaps you can get a bike licence Jakq, and then have full speed transport whilst your peers are stuck in buses and parents' cars.

Exactly my point.

Ok, I'm going to change one thing in my opinion. No matter how old someone starts driving, he will lack driving skills. So, it would be best if we would have a same kind of system that is in Australia (Read earlier posts). It allows that youngsters can still use a car (And thus learns how to drive properly), but limits it to day-time use only (And requires that there is a supervisor, for example mom/dad, on co-seat). What I have seen in Finland, worst time is around 9PM-5AM. For some reason every jerks with home-made spoilerZ and kustom blastas (Ya, Orks FTW, btw) appears to the streets and starts to do their tool-enlargement burnouts and all other ridiculous maneuvers. Many times someone has nearly crashed to my car because of his lack of knowledge (And brains... Who does that on a street... Other than Atlantian...) how car handles. Thats why I, honest driver, avoid driving on that time, just because I am afraid of those fools. Why should I be afraid of those who violates the law? Shouldn't it be another way around..?

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I'm not joking. This was one of the things I got to see lovely pictures of.

Of course it wouldn't strengthen my argument to say he was 17 and had only passed his test 3 weeks before...

Quote from Bob Smith :

It's true, I couldn't have had a car though Uni without having a job, and I'm glad I didn't work though Uni. In fact I'm still saving for my first car now, and I reckon it could take two more paychecks, which will put it after my 23rd birthday. I've only driven once since I passed my test 5 years ago. I think I'll have to book a few refresher lessons else I'm gonna risk crashing somebody elses car when I go car hunting.

Quote from Jakg :

At the end of the day all you people who wont be affected by this (ie those who ALREADY have a license and a nice car) dont care, but people who this will actually affect DO.

And as for cash, I think i've had a cunning scheme to sort that out :P

The biggest struggle for me having a car for my last 6 months of college was buying fuel, on 30 quid a week, "some" travel money and a shift being a general labourer in a factory left me with about £50 to spend each week. (After taking my fuel into account) So I still have the the other few days of the week when i'll be wanting to use my car, there's another 20 quid to keep me sane.

The whole time I was at college nothing went wrong with my car, the only money I had to spend on it was petrol, yet in these past few months i've had countless things in need of fixing, somewhere in the region of £3-400. Bearing in mind I drive a 96' corsa 1.2, one of the cheap versions. This car is one of the cheapest to get parts for and generally easy to maintain. Had this have happend while I was at college, i'd be f**ked.

You guys out their telling us you want a car for college, it wont happen unless you got a spare grand for the insureance and a spare grand for the new car. (I was lucky, I got my car cheap at the auctions and in exchange for the car being fixed I worked for a garage) So I was lucky and got the car for free basicly.

Jak, I used to live somewhere that NO busses would take me to college, so I got a scooter and I think you do too? Keep the scooter and run it untill your done with your education, especcially with the way car tax and fuel duty tax and every other stinking bloody tax is going.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Well, ive only just passed my test. My step-dad has said he will take me down the M4 just to slough or reading and then back again, Just to get a little feel of the motorway etc etc. I do agree, the licence entitles you to go on the motorway and yet there is not one bit of training for it. Kinda stupid really...

It's like a dual carriageway, but with extra lanes (usually). Same speed limit. Same slip roads. Why do people find roads with an M in front of them scarier than those without?

Quote from Jakg :

I'm not joking.

I don't doubt that. I was just thinking you'd maybe read the other thread with me and tristan where we were talking about me getting air off of a 1 lane bridge near my house.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Why do people find roads with an M in front of them scarier than those without?

Because there are a lot more vehicles, a lot more speeders, a lot more trucks and a lot more things to worry about?

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Because there are a lot more vehicles, a lot more speeders, a lot more trucks and a lot more things to worry about?

More cars which travel at roughly the same speed as you, no pedestrians that step onto the road, doors flinging open or cars coming from a sidestreet all without looking to worry about? Hell yeah, a motorway is way harder to drive on!

Quote from bbman :

More cars which travel at roughly the same speed as you, no pedestrians that step onto the road, doors flinging open or cars coming from a sidestreet all without looking to worry about? Hell yeah, a motorway is way harder to drive on!

Personally, I don't find a motorway any harder either - but it is much more intimidating at first because you don't even think about flinging doors and pedestrians on small roads until something like that happens to you as a novice driver.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Because there are a lot more vehicles, a lot more speeders, a lot more trucks and a lot more things to worry about?

Not that many more really. And you only really need to worry about the ones close to you. Speeding is the same on motorways in my experience. Just as many people doing 100mph as there are doing 50mph (stupidly). Trucks - maybe, but they are quicker than the slowest cars, so not a big hazard in comparison.

I will admit that motorways in the rain are a lot worse, because they a quite a bit more enclosed, so the spray hangs beside the lorries.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Personally, I don't find a motorway any harder either - but it is much more intimidating at first because you don't even think about flinging doors and pedestrians on small roads until something like that happens to you as a novice driver.

maybe you didnt but in places where drivers are actually taught how to drive youre drilled to watch out for just about anything

and motorway driving in a place with speed limits has the same effect as valium above anything else

Quote from Shotglass :

maybe you didnt but in places where drivers are actually taught how to drive youre drilled to watch out for just about anything

Well, let me rephrase it then:

IN AMERICA, where we aren't taught anything valuable except through experience, driving on a highway is more intimidating at first, than driving on smaller roads, because the HIGHWAY is the only place where they seem to emphasize that you need to be aware of surroundings. They don't teach you about avoiding anything on smaller roads.

How's that?

much better but you could have included a few more countries there... im sure the drivers ed is very similar in i dunno namibia maybe or afghanistan

Imho highways are less confusing. One-way and no street signs & lights.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Imho highways are less confusing. One-way and no street signs & lights.

I should make it clear that I also find that highways are much easier and actually safer to drive on than small roads, but it's just the initial fear (accelerating on the on-ramp and then the first few minutes on the highway) that are scary for a novice driver.

That brings to two other peeves.

1. People who insist on trying to join a dual carriageway or motorway, full of cars doing between 70 and 100mph (or, if they're not, they should be ) by doing no more than 40, and no more than 20% throttle up the slip road. GRRRRRRRRR Join at your intended cruising speed and the whole merging thing is easier, quicker and safer.

2. People who pull out of their lane in front of faster cars at the last minute to let aforementioned dawdlers get on the road. Do they not realise that, like at any t-junction (which is essentially what a slip road is) the cars ON the road have priority over the cars JOINING the road. If there is no space to join, you should brake and stop until you can do so. Or plan ahead and merge seamlessly.

3. Another one I thought of after driving last night. People too scared to do more than 50% of the speed limit (in this case doing 30mph in a 60 limit) on normal A-roads in the wet because they're presumably scared about aquaplaning or traction or something they shouldn't worry about until about 90mph, but are then happy to do 60 on a dual carriageway? Is there some magical law of physics that says on a wider road your tyres have more fecking grip?

I know the driving test in England is the biggest piece of piss since man invented the square brick into a square hole game, but that's no excuse for the lame drivers on the roads in this country. It's not even confined to Norfolk.

And don't get me started on the lame-ass low IQ thick headed drivers of BMWs.

And on the same note - indicators. Do people even know they're there? Do they forget to use them, or do they think that everyone else on the road doesn't need to know in advance what someone is going to do?

The roads are full of morons. Full, I tell thee.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I should make it clear that I also find that highways are much easier and actually safer to drive on than small roads, but it's just the initial fear (accelerating on the on-ramp and then the first few minutes on the highway) that are scary for a novice driver.

Indeed. I remember my first highway-ramp when I was in driving school. Freaked hell out of me.

But equally bad is city-traffic. Those one-way streets, traffic lights, someone using horn behind you only because there is a white triangle in your car (Indicates that the car is used by someone who don't have license), etc.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

I seriously hope this is not true. I have just spent a bucket load of dosh on a car ready for me when i pass my test, and have spent more doing it up (cosmetics). If this does get increased, im seriously gonna be pissed off!

Hmm. If you're one less Nova with a front wing on the roads, then this new legislation has already proved its worth to me.

i cant see motorway drive being added in to the test, can you imagine the chaos!!!! its bad enough on there, as said in some posts above, without adding more hazards.

pass plus covers motorway driving after you pass your test!!

i`ll say this again age wont rise soon,if ever!!

Quote from tristancliffe :

3. Another one I thought of after driving last night. People too scared to do more than 50% of the speed limit (in this case doing 30mph in a 60 limit) on normal A-roads in the wet because they're presumably scared about aquaplaning or traction or something they shouldn't worry about until about 90mph, but are then happy to do 60 on a dual carriageway? Is there some magical law of physics that says on a wider road your tyres have more fecking grip?

No, they have less grip, which is WHY people go slower on small roads. On the highway, you don't expect to have to brake hard for any reason, or even swerve. On a small road, as you guys mentioned above, there is a lot more to look out for, and going 60 mph on a wet road ensures that if you have to brake hard, you're going for a wild ride. IMO it's not aquaplaning that people worry about, it's braking... which I think makes sense. At least I THINK that's what they're thinking.

I agree with everything else you said though. I absolutely hate people that can't drive... which is like 97.1845% of people on the road. Actually, those 97.1845% probably DON'T think about having to brake or anything. They're probably going 30 because they're too busy talking on cell phones, or eating, or doing their nails, or just being TERRIBLE DRIVERS. The other 2.8155% go slow because of what I said :P