Lol, and the silence from Joona and Sasa means the surprise has been and gone...

Ok well, it's been a long time since I drove any of them so I took them all out for a spin on AS National just now and did a 10 minute qualification in each. Now I know this track but I've never driven any of these cars on them before and the laptimes I achieved are as follows (cars driven in the order given):

FXR : 1:53.45 (edit - corrected, according to lfsworld i have actually done a 1:48.54 in the past)
XXR : 1:51.40
FZR : 1:50.06 (would have been a sub 50 as I ran out of petrol 100m from the line and coasted across it).

Probably very slow times I'm sure but the relative times speak for themselves really.

In terms of what they were like to drive.

FXR : Seemed pretty balanced in the corners, very forgiving of curbs, not too quick to turn in, but basically just not that quick, (edit - obviously quicker than I thought)

XXR : Hates any kind of curb on or off the power, will loose the back end relatively easily - even in long sweeping curves, quite good on the brakes, turns in sharper than FXR.

FZR : Brakes very well, has quite a bit more grip than the others - once it's settled, good throttle response, feels fastest to accelerate in a straight line (subjectively), not too bad over curbs - just dont give it any throttle, will loose the back end on tight slow corners with too much throttle. Weight shifting is slow, takes an age to settle and generally moves around a lot more than the others with any steering input.

Interesting to note that even given the XXRs tendency to spin up the rear, (and possibly because of it I was more careful on the throttle), the only car I actually spun was the FZR.

Having said all that it was the FZR that I enjoyed driving the most. The FXR the least as it was just too boring and the XXR was the hardest to push. Although I didn't really push any of them that hard.

XRR: very loose rear, and the turbo lag makes it even harder again.

Quote from gezmoor :

Ok well, it's been a long time since I drove any of them so I took them all out for a spin on AS National just now and did a 10 minute qualification in each. Now I know this track but I've never driven any of these cars on them before and the laptimes I achieved are as follows (cars driven in the order given):

TBH that doesn't really tell anything because at over 5 seconds off the base that you should be running at without pushing or taking any risks with an endurance set you clearly weren't close enough to the limit to experience the cars handling characteristics at the limit that are very different.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Somewhere, JTbo is crying on his keyboard.

I'm sure scipy shed a tear or two too

(jonesy has JTbo on his tail now, perhaps even literally)

Good luck.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I'm sure scipy shed a tear or two too

Too much advertised certainty will get a Volvo stationed outside your house.

Quote from xaotik :

Too much advertised certainty will get a Volvo stationed outside your house.

I mean, I'd guess

*hides under desk*

Quote from ajp71 :

TBH that doesn't really tell anything because at over 5 seconds off the base that you should be running at without pushing or taking any risks with an endurance set you clearly weren't close enough to the limit to experience the cars handling characteristics at the limit that are very different.

Well I don't agree. Just got hold of a better set for the FZR and put in some high 45s and the basic handling is the same as when I was doing laps in the 50s. I think lapping at 90%+ of the WR pace is more than quick enough to be able to compare basic handling characteristics of cars.

High 45s at AS3 still put you 3 or 4 seconds off the pace, and if my experience with sharing setups in a league environment is any indication, even those 2 seconds off the pace experience the car very differently from someone who is on the pace.

who ever votes for FXR failed epically

Voting for the FXR is like saying, "you're all tossers for thinking the GTR cars are hard to drive."

Quote from Forbin :

High 45s at AS3 still put you 3 or 4 seconds off the pace, and if my experience with sharing setups in a league environment is any indication, even those 2 seconds off the pace experience the car very differently from someone who is on the pace.

Not necessarily. It depends on how you get there. The assumption you're making is that someone that is 3-4 or even 2 seconds off the pace isn't pushing the car as hard as someone that is on the pace is. The reality is, in fact very often people that are that close are pushing too hard and are actually overstepping the limits of the car. So it's just wrong to assume that someone who is a few seconds off the pace is not experiencing the car on the limit. What differentiates drivers who can consitantly lap within a second or two of the WR and those that are a further second or two slower is the ability to keep the car close to, but not over, its limits pretty much all the way around the track. Whereas the slower driver is nearly always putting in too much input, (either brake/steering/throttle etc), and so pushing the car over it's limit in some places and not pushing hard enough in others and therefore loosing pace.

All I'm saying is that you don't have to drive a car at WR or full competitive race pace to get an insight in to how it handles compared to other cars.

Most drivers that are a 2-4 seconds off the pace are usually pretty much on it for significant parts of the lap but are loosing time in one or two sectors. I know for a fact that I can stay with guys that are up to 2 seconds a lap faster than me round certain sectors of most tracks, (and I don't mean just the straights), but I'm not as quick in others, (and in some cases I'm actually faster than them in a given sector).

funny to read people saying that the FXR is for babies or girls. Show us your talent of being fast with a so easy car to drive if it is really the case.

Quote from Flotch :

funny to read people saying that the FXR is for babies or girls. Show us your talent of being fast with a so easy car to drive if it is really the case.

I agree, same thing goes for FXO and oval

I dunno. I have no doubt that it's just as difficult to get a FXR WR as it is to get a XRR or FZR WR, and it's certainly a lot more difficult to keep up with FZR/XRR pace in a FXR.

That said, it's a lot easier to drive consistently in race conditions than either of the other two, and it's much easier to recover when things go wrong. The sacrifice is in its pace.

Quote from Flotch :

funny to read people saying that the FXR is for babies or girls. Show us your talent of being fast with a so easy car to drive if it is really the case.

Nobody said that beeing fast is easy in FXR.

It's just the easiest to drive car (in my opinion), because its 4WD and stable mainly. RWD cars are born to oversteer more than FXR does.

Everything depends on the driver's feeling.

Person A says: Oh FZR is difficult, does fast times in FXR
Person B says: Oh FXR is difficult, does fast times in FZR
Person C says: Oh i can't drive these cars at all

I was one of the few XRRs on CD for a long time, finished always around 8th, even won a single race:crown: But i switched to FZR some time because i couldn't make the 1:44 target in XRR, 1:45 being the best I could wrench out of it. I still haven't done the target time in FZR either, tho (but havent raced at CD much since)

XRR is by far superior diving into corners, but out of them it can't stand a chance to FXR and FZR (at least in my hands)

FXR if driven and setup right can wipe the floor against most comers, but it needs to be driven on that slippy slidey knife edge to get the most out of it . . . If you can control the rotation and the power application it kicks sand in everythings face. But that what makes it so hard to drive to the max.

I personally favour the FZR, always have, and untill they bring in V8's probs always will. It's big, gorgeous, the engine is at least at the right end of the car if not on the right side of the axle and once you learn to setup and control that big 'ol rear end it's a joy to drive. In my eyes it's the middling car for people like me who just don't have it for the FXR but can at least get near to getting the most out of the FZR.

The XRR. It's, well, it's kinda . . . It's just . . . . . Well, it's . . . It's dull! I know some afficionado's will flame me for this but it's the noobs car. It holds the road, it'll go round corners and it'll go fast down the straights. Mostly without causing the driver too many 'I appear to be facing the on coming pack' moments.

So, it's the FXR in my eyes that is the most difficult to drive but once mastered is the most ultimatley rewarding plus it can't get out of sandtraps hehe.

My ten pence worth.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

It's the FZR for me. Compare it to the XRR, which is also RWD, and the XRR has buckets more grip, and is far less likely to kick out the rear. I avoid the FZR when I can

QUite the oppsoite for me. It is tue that i tested both of them only on Aston National which just sucks for the XRR since it has the two hairpins which kill the XRR. Fast and long corners are okay, well generally just fast ones. The slow ones kill it.

Quote from Funnybear :

FXR if driven and setup right can wipe the floor against most comers, but it needs to be driven on that slippy slidey knife edge to get the most out of it . . . If you can control the rotation and the power application it kicks sand in everythings face. But that what makes it so hard to drive to the max.

I personally favour the FZR, always have, and untill they bring in V8's probs always will. It's big, gorgeous, the engine is at least at the right end of the car if not on the right side of the axle and once you learn to setup and control that big 'ol rear end it's a joy to drive. In my eyes it's the middling car for people like me who just don't have it for the FXR but can at least get near to getting the most out of the FZR.

The XRR. It's, well, it's kinda . . . It's just . . . . . Well, it's . . . It's dull! I know some afficionado's will flame me for this but it's the noobs car. It holds the road, it'll go round corners and it'll go fast down the straights. Mostly without causing the driver too many 'I appear to be facing the on coming pack' moments.

So, it's the FXR in my eyes that is the most difficult to drive but once mastered is the most ultimatley rewarding plus it can't get out of sandtraps hehe.

My ten pence worth.

I don't agree with you about the XRR at all. I can get into corners very well with it but coming out is difficult to get the same speed as the FZR.
Are you confusing it with the FXR? The FXR can get out of sand traps much easier than the XRR, from my experience.

Yeah, definitely mixed up the FXR and XRR there.

Quote from gezmoor :

...

By driving off pace and all over the place you're not experiencing the limits and behaviour of the car when driven correctly, so the top drivers will have a different issues and handling charateristics.

I voted FXR, not because I find the handling difficult but because I find it essentially impossible to drive at a competitive speed (or almost any speed) without destroying the front tyres. Other people seem to manage it so it must be me.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I dunno. I have no doubt that it's just as difficult to get a FXR WR as it is to get a XRR or FZR WR, and it's certainly a lot more difficult to keep up with FZR/XRR pace in a FXR.

That said, it's a lot easier to drive consistently in race conditions than either of the other two, and it's much easier to recover when things go wrong. The sacrifice is in its pace.

Nah, that's nonsense (the bold part - I agree with rest). Maintaining a consistent quick speed may even be harder in the FXR than it is in the XRR or the FZR. The FXR is much harder on tires, allowing you to have a limited amount of decent temperature in the tires in a short period of time. Yes, it's easier to recover, that part is true, but its a constant struggle during a stint to control the tire temperature while maintaining a competitive speed.

Speaking for myself, I find the FZR most difficult to drive of all 3. I am mainly a FXR driver (yes, I wear a diaper, bib and am crying for mammy's boob while driving ...), with the weight distribution of the XRR being close to similar to the FXR I find the transition from FXR to XRR much easier than the transition to the FZR. In my experience I have to drive totally different with the FZR than with the FXR or XRR, making the FZR zeh car-le-crap for me.

Quote from luftrofl :

I don't agree with you about the XRR at all. I can get into corners very well with it but coming out is difficult to get the same speed as the FZR.
Are you confusing it with the FXR? The FXR can get out of sand traps much easier than the XRR, from my experience.

I don't think I am confusing things . . . .

Slighty confused about your interpritation. So let me try and clarify this. The FZR will have a lot better traction out of a corner (If driven well and setup well) Because it has all the wieght over the back and driven axle, hence it has power on traction that is unmatched by any other GT. The FXR has a front engine but rear wheel drive, plus a turbo, which means that the arse is as flighty as a Swallow during Migration. The XRR (and here my technical knowledge mught fail me because I have really have not spent any time in it since noob days (some of you can and will use that against me ) is a four wheel drive front engined creature, hence it will power on understeer (depending of course on the front rear power distribution and setup) so it's exit speed is far less that either the FXR and the FZR. Paritcularily the FZR which if driven right can exit a corner like nothing else. The problem with the FZR is that it don't go into corners which is where the FXR completly canes it's rear end.

So I think I'm ok in the point I made, unless I am confusing myself and you even more.

unless I'm getting my cars all muddled up. TBH I really don't pay much attention to what their called. So now I see the confusion because that is exactly what I have done. D'oh me. Just do some self editing, the rest of it makes sense.