I would guess they will be slower. Especially at first when everybody has to get used to the new handling.

But nobody knows for sure, obviously.

My guess would be quicker- should be easier to put the power down in the corners, even with less overall lateral grip per tire, if all 4 tires are working better (instead of basically 2 like we have now) corner exit should be quite a bit faster.


But I'm just guessing.

Brendan

Can't wait. It will be like getting a new game for FREE.

If the baseline grip level does not change much (which may well be the case from what Scawen wrote) then the result is unpredictable just now. "Less grip" generally means slower laps though.

Quote from Falcon77 :

If the baseline grip level does not change much (which may well be the case from what Scawen wrote) then the result is unpredictable just now. "Less grip" generally means slower laps though.

Less grip per tyre could actually result in more overall grip. You will have all 4 wheels doing the work in cornering (doe to less body roll), instead of the 2 outer tyres. It could easily happen that the inner tyres have more grip with "less grip physics" then they have now.

But we could probably guess about that until the patch is released and still be wrong so we'll just have to sit and wait

BTW, "tyre" and "tire" -> which is British and which is US?

Quote from dev :

Less grip per tyre could actually result in more overall grip. You will have all 4 wheels doing the work in cornering (doe to less body roll), instead of the 2 outer tyres. It could easily happen that the inner tyres have more grip with "less grip physics" then they have now.

But we could probably guess about that until the patch is released and still be wrong so we'll just have to sit and wait

BTW, "tyre" and "tire" -> which is British and which is US?

The one with the y in it is the british one.

Tyre is British English.

Quote from dev :

Less grip per tyre could actually result in more overall grip. You will have all 4 wheels doing the work in cornering (doe to less body roll), instead of the 2 outer tyres. It could easily happen that the inner tyres have more grip with "less grip physics" then they have now.

I am always aiming in making settings to have outer wheels on green (optimum grip) and inside just a bit red... I think it would not gonna change

Quote from dev :

Less grip per tyre could actually result in more overall grip. You will have all 4 wheels doing the work in cornering (doe to less body roll), instead of the 2 outer tyres. It could easily happen that the inner tyres have more grip with "less grip physics" then they have now.

As somebody already explained before, all other things being equal, overall grip determines body roll and not the other way around
With the same ride height you cannot have more grip with "less roll", or more precisely: less weight transfer. If you lower the ride height though, you *might* end up very near the current lap times..

Quote from Falcon77 :

As somebody already explained before, all other things being equal, overall grip determines body roll and not the other way around
With the same ride height you cannot have more grip with "less roll", or more precisely: less weight transfer. If you lower the ride height though, you *might* end up very near the current lap times..

I agree with your statement. Scawen's post was a little too general to permit one to come to a conclusion about what he meant(comments in brackets are mine):

"...we found that we could not make the LFS model handle as well as the real car[too slow?, too unstable?]. One of the reasons for this was that the LFS tyres had too much grip [generated too much lateral load for a given vertical load?, to high a coefficient of friction?, individually or all together?] and this was causing the inside wheels to lose too much load [again, vertical or lateral?] while cornering. But simply reducing the grip would not have been a good approach... the result would have been just the same old LFS but at lower speeds [but if you had too much lateral load being created, the speeds would be too high to begin with]."

But I am happy with the present model so any improvement will be a bonus.

I imagine he meant vertical load, vertical load would be a function of lateral load so they go hand in hand. Hence open differentials behaving strangely (the opposite wheel going to full rev)... Not to mention all the video's on youtube with people keeping the car on two wheels for far too long

Plus the coefficient of friction would simply reduce overall grip and he stated (and as you re-stated) they didn't want to do this. The post seemed pretty clear to me.

I agree that the current LFS tires have too much grip, so the only thing I can think of them doing to fix the issue without sacrificing cornering speeds would be to allow more slip, that way you'd have more realistic behavior like lift off oversteer and more realistic breaking of traction/powersliding.

I'm always in support of progress of physics. Content is nice but considering many of the unreal looking WRs, physics would have to get an update so great stuff Scawen on reworking the tyre model. I know that you said that through beta testing, a lot of the testers felt that when the setups were set to the realistic values found in the real car, they felt a huge improvement in realism which is great but I wanted to ask if there are any plans on improving other aspects of the physics engine like suspension or more importantly, aerodynamics or is the main focus of the next patch only on tyre physics?

Quote from Bob Smith :

So you don't make brum brum noises during sex, fumble about with the gearstick when it pops out of gear or wave a yellow flag if the condom splits? Or is that just me?

YEllow Flags??????.. straight destruction derby for me

The whole thing with the tyre physics update will have a huge impact on
gameplay in LFS. Now we actually have to much sliding in the game,
for example take the LX6 or FZ50. Once you begin to slide it doesn't seem
to stop.

It would be nice if there was some more background information about the
new implemented tyre core model or at least a hint which model is used.

A basic mathematical model is the Pacejka model with a "Magic Formula"
for lateral force. It's based on form parameters which influence the way
the lateral force behaves with increasing slip angles. This model doesn't
emulate the whole tire itself but just a part, so it is capable for real-time
application.

I think that Scawen uses his own model, not the Pacejka's.

Quote from Flame CZE :

I think that Scawen uses his own model, not the Pacejka's.

That's correct. His using his own creation!

As far as I know Pacajka model doesn't support flat spots, or tire deformation.

LFS has it's own system as Byku sais.

Any ideas on a release date at all Scawen? just curious and for all the others

Quote from ricktutty :

Any ideas on a release date at all Scawen? just curious and for all the others

unlikely... just look at what happened when the VWS didn't get released "on time".

Quote from bunder9999 :

unlikely... just look at what happened when the VWS didn't get released "on time".

yeah that is tru... love to see what these new physics will be like tho... drifting the XRT and the FZ50 is a tiny difficult but definitely possible... will be very interesting to see what it will be like when the patch comes out...

Quote from ricktutty :

drifting the XRT and the FZ50 is a tiny difficult but definitely possible...

:wave2:

Quote from Shadowww :

:wave2:

Quote from ricktutty :

You can't drive the XRT and FZ5, or can you?

(not cracker hunting, just browsing the forums >_<)

he will make the same story ..
he was in a friend who has a license and there he drive the FZ5 and theeeeeeen .. bla bla
the XRT is unlocked for demos in X patch

i kinda want to see how scawen reacts to this, being his thread and all

:munching_ :camera: