Hello Drivers,

Following the failure of the LMP to gather much interest in MoE circles, we have moved on to a new proposed class structure. In short, we have created a new GT1 class with 600bhp cars. The old GT1 class becomes a new GT2 class, while the old GT2 becomes the new GT3.

In theory, the older classes will behave very similarly to how they did last season, while the new GT1 class will simply be a faster version of the old GT1. Over the next couple weeks we'd like to see a lot of individual testing from all interested teams and drivers. To this end, we have set up the Masters of Endurance server with the tweaked configuration. Attached to this post is a new LFS.exe file with the correct modifications to the GTR class; you must use this new .exe file to connect to the MoE server. The server has the same race password as last season. If you don't know that password and wish to participate in testing, please PM myself, Boothy, or PMD9409.

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In addition, we would like to schedule a test race for the weekend of Saturday, October the 23rd. We may or may not follow this up with a second test race on Sunday, October the 24th. All teams from last season are invited. Other teams who want to be involved may post their intent in the test races thread, per the rules specified in that thread.

Suggested testing restrictions for each class are as follows:

Quote :

GT1:
FZR 31kg (to equal 1100kg)
XRR
FXR

GT2:
FZR 17% + 31kg (to equal 1100kg)
XRR 23%
FXR 22%

GT3:
FZR 31% + 31kg (to equal 1100kg)
XRR 38%
FXR 37%

Please post in this thread with any discussion of the proposed restrictions, for any class. We are relatively certain of the GT3-class balancing. GT2 and GT1 are the subject of far more debate, and will certainly need extended testing.

To "install" the new LFS, simply extract the exe into your main LFS folder. Use that exe in your main LFS folder (or create a shortcut to desktop) to join the MoE server. Everything else can stay the same as before, no other changes needed.

sounds cool. how long will the testing period be?

2 weeks of individual testing before the group test races.

If teams want to organize races on their own in the test server, that's fine too.

"it feels the same."

800bhp plz?

Just did a few laps in an FZR / XRR. The XRR was more or less as fast as the FZR and much easier to drive. On the server someone said the FZR can't complete a 1 hour stint. If that's the case, the FZR should have enough in hand to be around an XRR with an extra pit over 6 hours.

First impression (and all I have time for unfortunately) is that the FZR appears to be fighting with 1 hand tied behind its back and needs several kilograms less ballast.

Quote from v1rg0 :

Just did a few laps in an FZR / XRR. The XRR was more or less as fast as the FZR and much easier to drive. On the server someone said the FZR can't complete a 1 hour stint. If that's the case, the FZR should have enough in hand to be around an XRR with an extra pit over 6 hours.

First impression (and all I have time for unfortunately) is that the FZR appears to be fighting with 1 hand tied behind its back and needs several kilograms less ballast.

Thanks, Jack. Keep testing it, if you don't mind. We need info about the ultimate pace for both cars (and the FXR, too) to make an informed call. We were aware of the FZR's inability to do an hour on fuel when the restrictions were designed, and it was expected that it would have a leg up on race pace. Bear in mind that KY3 is a track that typically favors the XRR to a slight degree.

I did a few laps with the gt1 fzr and the first time round didn't notice any difference to the previous seasons car. It's probably partly due to me not driving lfs for awhile but I still think you should add another 100-200 bhps to make it more fun.

Quote from v1rg0 :

Just did a few laps in an FZR / XRR. The XRR was more or less as fast as the FZR and much easier to drive. On the server someone said the FZR can't complete a 1 hour stint. If that's the case, the FZR should have enough in hand to be around an XRR with an extra pit over 6 hours.

First impression (and all I have time for unfortunately) is that the FZR appears to be fighting with 1 hand tied behind its back and needs several kilograms less ballast.

Yeah, this was the main issue in GT1, and why much testing is needed.

May I ask what times you were running start of stint with each car?

I have been trying to figure out the wisest choice for balancing over the season, but it fells near impossible to do so. The FZR at places like SO4 and BL1 can run a full hour on fuel (I believe) so it would have a huge advantage with the ballast off. On the other hand, leaving the full ballast on (the 31kg only makes it equal the same weight as XRR) could create a big disadvantage for the FZR at big tracks like KY3/AS5 as you say.

My goal has been trying to have the FZR GT1 2 tenths (0.2) of a second a lap ahead of the XRR start of stint (using KY3 as the track). This should gain roughly 30-35 seconds over the course of a 6 hour race, which is a small bit less than a pitstop (5-10 seconds less). Reason being is that the XRR needs an advantage at some sort of track, and only reasonable choice would be the fast tracks. At small tracks the FZR should dominate with not having to do an extra pit, which is perfectly fine IMO.

Finally, is the XRR really that much easier to you? You might be much more on the limit than me (which is the reason I asked for the times you were running) so that could be why. I was using R3/R4 in FZR, and R3/R3 in XRR, and the FZR seemed to rotate and drive much better.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Yeah, this was the main issue in GT1, and why much testing is needed.

May I ask what times you were running start of stint with each car?

I have been trying to figure out the wisest choice for balancing over the season, but it fells near impossible to do so. The FZR at places like SO4 and BL1 can run a full hour on fuel (I believe) so it would have a huge advantage with the ballast off. On the other hand, leaving the full ballast on (the 31kg only makes it equal the same weight as XRR) could create a big disadvantage for the FZR at big tracks like KY3/AS5 as you say.

I know nobody will even remotely like my idea, but I'll post it anyway.

Why not make use of the ballast system to level out the top teams a bit? This would have the advantage that balancing would be rather depending on how fast a team is rather than how quick the car is.
Of course this would still need some decent balancing before the season starts, but I think we have seen over the last years that teams do get a lot quicker over a season with their car due to better setups etc and therefore balancing can be a bit difficult.

Not having driven any of the gt cars I'd suggest 15,10,5 kg ballast depending on the standings of each class (maybe less for the "slower classes).

Quote from PMD9409 :

May I ask what times you were running start of stint with each car?

We did 6-7 quali laps in each car on a bodged setup. It's enough to read a lot in to the handling and performance but not lap times.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Finally, is the XRR really that much easier to you?

Yeah, a few others said the same.

I think it's worth testing +100-200bhp as others have said.

Yeah make some power beasts out of the cars so ideal lines are unimportant and only exits are important, what a failure.:tit:

not much difference to the normal fzr tbh but hf anyway

Quote from Dennis93 :

Yeah make some power beasts out of the cars so ideal lines are unimportant and only exits are important, what a failure.

When have you ever known a good exit to not require a good line?

Quote from v1rg0 :

We did 6-7 quali laps in each car on a bodged setup. It's enough to read a lot in to the handling and performance but not lap times.


Yeah, a few others said the same.

I think it's worth testing +100-200bhp as others have said.

So your times were in the 9-10 range I presume.

I can change the gt1 to 700bhp but I wonder if the fzr could even run 50 minutes on fuel :/.

@timo: except for the fact its 4 seconds a lap faster right?

tbh, if it drives like GT1, why not just have GT1 and GT2 then = more cars in each class. PERSONALY, I like it when there's more cars in each class.

But yeah, as Phil said, adding more bhp will **** the fuel :P Give bigger fuel-tanks to the cars? xD

I like the idea, though, and that you're trying

LMP cars also only do about 45-50min per tank while double or even triple stinting the tyres if I remember right, that would probably also open up possibilities for new strategies. Personally I wouldn't mind getting away from the usual 1h rhythm.

Just wondering which fictional gt1 class inspired these changes?

What do you mean, fictional GT1 class?

The GT1 cars used in Le Mans, Le Mans Series, FIA GT1 World Championship etc, all have 560-650bhp, and weigh 1200-1250kg.

It is LFS' GT1 class which is fictional - it is more like FIA GT2.

With regards the double stinting, I don't think it would be possible in LFS for the tyres to last 90 minutes

The 2 most obvious differences between the real GT1 class and what you are trying to achieve are engine sizes(types) and weights. Then on - tires widths. Ofcourse there are more factors but these... but lets dont go in the deep waters, lets have fun.

Why do you argue about fictional cars beeing fictional? Just leave it as it is, i don't recommend aiming for total reality anyway because the weird tyre physics and all that just won't let you go there.

Exactly, when creating these we never aimed for absolute realism at all since we know its impossible with LFS' current physics engine.

We can't increase the weight of the car, unless we want GT2 and GT3 heavier.

We can't make the Turbo engines larger because it causes a mismatch between the FZR and XRR/FXR. If we did do that then the XRR/FXR would need an intake restriction even in GT1, as it would have far more power.

Can't change tire dimensions.

Can't change cylinders.

And exactly that is why everything should stay as we had it in the seasons before. Or why got the Idea of a classic GT1 (GTR) and GT2 (UFR+XFR) lost?

The FZR didn't feel good at all when i drove it, i think it just wasn't made for that kind of power and tbh you can't really tell the difference in a straight line that much, who wants to spend alot of time in a car thats not nice to drive and difficult?

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

The FZR didn't feel good at all when i drove it, i think it just wasn't made for that kind of power and tbh you can't really tell the difference in a straight line that much, who wants to spend alot of time in a car thats not nice to drive and difficult?

And how many laps did you do and how refined was the setup?