Now, I usually don't shout out loud, slander or even curse ( in public anyway ) about the state of the LFS servers, but something has now goto give. Its getting ridiculous now. 5 different servers tonight, just generally looking around for some fun ( what LFS used to be like ) and well I found out of 5 server, 4 had wreakers on them, and all are S2 licensed?

Come on people, we need to do something here, its killing the essence of what LFS is about. Admit it, LFS is not a kids toy. Its a proper ( as close can be ) simulated environment and I now feel that the Devs have to actually issue personal warnings to these people. Its all there, in the virtual contract you sign when you buy your license.

Sometimes all people want, including myself, is to join a server, and have a laugh ( racing ) Yes everybody makes mistakes, I am not knocking that, I was there once, and still am in some cars, but come on, mistakes are mistakes. Driving the wrong way and taking you out on purpose is not a simple mistake.

Now I must add that this has never happened on a DSRC server, a T7R Server, a Clownpaint Server, or a Ocrana server to name a few, but these don't always have people in them, and sometimes its nice just to pop on and have an actual race.

I don;t want this ( we have been here for years server ) i actually like taking time out to help people, but when people deliberatly go out of there way to spoil ones night, then thats wrong.

I know you will all say, well join another server, get a PW'd server, but sometimes, after a long hard day at the office, its nice to just pop on, find a server that has some people in and have some fun ( always have done in the past )

OK I know also you will say, well LFS is more popular now this will happen, but where does it end. IMHO its killing the actual essence of what LFS is about, and now's the time for the devs to get involved. Its there business at the end of the day to have some control?

It doesnt have to be made public, as I don't agree with this, but if "hard proven evidence is shown to the devs only" then some action needs to be taken.

Lets try and nip this in the bud, before all the "LFS fanboys" sorry wrong word but, dissapear. We have seen alot leave ( Lefty, MagicFR, JeeP ) to name a couple. I mean there was a time when you saw everybody online, you was almost guarenteed a great race, no matter what day you joined, or time.

Please Please, I am begging now ( and thats never happened ) lets do something.

Thanks and Regards

Fordie.

PS - If you want hard evidence, I have it hear in picture format, and Video format, and also Replay format. Its aweful to watch but happens so often and to many a people.

I understand your point Fordman, I'm trying to get around it be adding as many respected LFS drivers to my buddy list on LFSW. Which I'm sure you've done.

However in the last couple of weeks I have had some of the best LFS races I've ever had in XFG and XFR servers. To me they tend to attract far more regular and respectable drivers compared to the FOX's and BF1 servers.

I do agree there seems to be an increasing small majority who revel in ruining peoples races. I reported one the other day in fact. I hope that this is just a current thing and they will get bored, I really do.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

To be honest I very, very rarely see deliberate wrecking on S2 servers. I do see a lot of inconsiderate driving though, and a lot of newbies joining servers full of fast guys and not actually trying to stay out of trouble.

Even saw one clown tonight join a server wearing a vMax skin. illepall

The wrecker was also wearing a T7R tag. Tristan.... I think that was his name. Poor Fordman, recruiting wreckers wearing other peoples skins.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

To be honest I very, very rarely see deliberate wrecking on S2 servers. I do see a lot of inconsiderate driving though, and a lot of newbies joining servers full of fast guys and not actually trying to stay out of trouble.

Even saw one clown tonight join a server wearing a vMax skin. illepall

Yup, that is what I have been seing. Not many deliberate wreckers in S2, but just people that don't pay attention to the track and ruin people's races. Last night was the worst I've had since the patch. Where people would just be coming back on the track without paying attention, causing big accidents... and of course they were sorry about it. Everyone is learning... and I think lots of people are buying the game actually... so they need to learn.

And yes, I am seeing more and more people wearing team skins for a team they aren't really a part of heheh. But this is nothing new... and this is what happens when games grow with more and more people. The veterans grow old, and only play at brief times... and there is just a lot of new drivers and new faces showing up that is not easy for us old timers to get used to probably.

Quote from hewhosnameistaken :

Even saw one clown tonight join a server wearing a vMax skin

sorry, it wont happen again.

I rarely see people wrecking intentionally, as kev said, i do see people trying to race ''out of there league'' but everbody has to start somewhere and if taking me out helps them learn what not to do, then so be it. Ive learned to expect it when joining public servers and look for my good races in a league or team events. I too understand where you are coming from, Im just not sure what can be done to help I think the personal warning system could help, but it seems like that would be hard to police...

Go to "pseudo-private" servers. What i mean is, that maybe some teams should give the pw to their servers out kind of freely. that still keeps wreckers away, cause the possibility that an admin is there is bigger and people would easily give the pw only to their buddies. That's not a guarantee against wreckers, but it's also not a real reason to try to get that pw if you are a wrecker. CRC was too much regulation, still basic idea is good. So that shpuld be some way to go.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

To be honest I very, very rarely see deliberate wrecking on S2 servers.

My thoughts exactly.

Guys, lets not turn this thread into a, I've seen wrecking, I've not, type of thread.

Fordman's obviously experienced this on more than one occasion. What can we do about it?

But a lot of people interpret wrecking in different ways. Intentional wrecking is clearly when someone goes reverse on the track or is stopped in the middle of the track destined to get a good laugh for creating a huge pileup. There are many other techniques too... like smashing everyone in Turn 1.

Whether ot not we've seen this behavior or not in S2 lately, just HOW often does EVERYONE see this... and if it isn't a common issue occuring, then why make such a big fuss about it. The devs don't need to do anything unless it happened to us everyday and people were in a chaotic outroar about wreckers in S2. It obviously is not like that right now, and it is just up to US to work out these small problems that occur.

I see your point, but another way to look at it, is if LFS is to expand, which I'm sure its been doing recently with the new BMW F1, and all the hype leading to the new update, there will be a lot of new players who are not yet totally farmilar with racing in a simulation enviroment, and they need time to learn. This is an ongoing process for everyone. Even just in the last few hours I've helped a couple of people as best I can with learning Aston Club, and in the last hour or so had a couple of very enjoyable races with several names I recognise from this forum. The way I see it is its a give and take, I have not ran accross many delibrate wreckers in S2, more commonly just people who aren't farmilar with the sim and the general rules. My driving still ain't that good, and I've done 20,000 odd miles (still good enough to beat Tristian ).

I definitely see more garden-variety idiots than true wreckers, at all times of the day...often they're just inexperienced or have absolutely no idea about race etiquette or even common sense (i.e. they don't look before they pit out, they don't yield to blue flags, they try and race you during prac, incessant spamming for restarts or setups to name but a few examples).

I'm not sure if I can suggest anything useful except that more server admins (or even Scavier) disable mid-race join for anything shorter than 10 laps. Some games don't allow you to join a server at all (let alone a race) once the race has started. Lots of problems I encounter are caused by people joining (for example) a 5-lapper on lap 3 or 4, getting amongst a group who are fighting for position and ruining it for them (or crashing themselves and begging for a restart), then wondering why they're copping abuse. I haven't been online much lately though, so I'm not sure if it's getting worse or is about the same as normal...
Perhaps idiots/rookie mistakes are just things you have to deal with on public servers

I am sorry but as one said ( whats the difference between your garden varity wreakers and the down out right race wreakers )

See for yourself. So2, Normal, in the FOx, He had to come a long dame way to get me, and all I got was a Yellow Bloody Flag

I don't think disabling mid-race joining is a good solution. Personally I join in to a race half way through very often, wait for a good clear spot to leave pits, and use the time to "warm up". Of course if I end up in a blue flag situation I will run myself off the track or pit to avoid interference with the race. Lots of people do this. I think some basic level of information is needed in LFS, many people do not know the basic racing rules most people go by, and I think this is part of the problem.

As Fordman has pointed out some people take joy in wrecking. Unfortunately some people are like this, I let a friend loose on an TBO server on my pc once, I popped out for a smoke, came back and he was set on revenge against some random dude because he tried to overtake him illepall Obviously I appologised and logged off, but some people think they can do what they want because its "only a game".

ATTENTION: WRECKER WEARING VMAX SKIN!

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7061/vmaxtristan3ka.jpg

I'd watch your T7R recruits Fordman.

I dont come across it that often really, but i do see it. I mainly dont see it as the servers i play on are almost always adminned during racing times. However, i do agree it needs sorting.

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

Guys, lets not turn this thread into a, I've seen wrecking, I've not, type of thread.

Fordman's obviously experienced this on more than one occasion. What can we do about it?

Thanks for that Chris. Yes I have been on LFS for almost 4yrs now ( 22nd September 2002 when I first found it ) and yes because of the great progress LFS will attract new people, but as you pointed out and others have, its not new people that are the problem, its the constant wreakers. As tweak said, there is different definitions of wreaker. Basically my definition is, somebody that "PURPOSLY" wreaks a race, not matter what turn or straight.

We pay for the content of LFS, and we get free the servers, but at the end of the servers in the master server, something the DEVS control, not us. I know being in the IT field, IP addresses change and what not, but I know from years ago, username's cannot change.

Something needs to be done, and I agree with Vykos. A database of server's with passwords all different but public, but what about these servers not being manned ( i.e. no admin ) Now my experiences tonight was of a Admin'd server, so the driver actually chose to go the wrong way, hense not being kicked.

I think, going the wrong way, admin or not, deserved to be removed from the track. You are given a 3-5 secs to turn around, then kicked. Now I don;t know programming but if you pass a certain point, then another you are removed from the track. Ok sounds easy, but actually coding it might not be, as I said I don't know, just thrashing out ideas here.

I haven't seen a "real" wrecker. Just alot of bad driving from newbies.
At least me skins are so bad they aren't stolen

Seems as though you had a team of them there Fordie

Just a thought, (i know nothing about programming), but how easy would it be to hard code a penalty system into the game, ie, if you drive the wrong way round the track for, say 5sec's you get a yellow card and a warning, then after 10 sec's, you get kicked to spectate mode, and you cant join the race until its finished, and, perhaps if this happens twice on a server, you get kicked and banned for 24hrs ? As far as other forms of wreaking go.......


Lol [edit] i really do need to speed up my typing, any tips/setups ?

Kev, heh you raise a valid point. Lets be fair though its not insanely hard to beat Tristian Espically when he tries to disguise himself in other team skins and forgets to brake Back on topic and to the real point, if its adversely affecting the race for many people its best the individuals causing it go to a less busy server or perhaps a team based server where they might recieve some hints or help as they pratice. There are a lot of people willing to help people new to the sim learn, and i try to do my bit as well, several people helped me when I was new so I see it as simply the way of things. Heck there's even been servers dedicated to it. But to be fair they've paid the same as us for the licence, its their right to log on to the busy servers, just they end up in more than they bargained for and ruin many peoples races and moods, the nagging thing is they take no responsibility for it, because to a large number its "just a game" and nothing to get worked up about. Which to a degree is true, but like you say the line has to be drawn.

True wreckers on the other hand, where they wreck other people on purpose, I think a global ban solution for only a period of time would be suitable. I think to better take care of the problem we need to understand what drives them to do it and try to find a solution at that level, but as in any public game, I doubt this is possible. I think a quicker goto spectate mode for people driving in reverse would be suitable, but a lot of S2 servers don't even use it at all. And in an accident or due to a lag collision sometimes your sent backwards which would send you to spectate unfairly. Maybe I'm just rambling though

been racing LFS for so long, let me just explain a little here. The point of this thread was to open ones eyes to all that goes on ( i.e. I have very little time atm to actually race) and also if I had just brough an S2 license and see what happened tonight, would I actually bother to continue.

Now I know personally, LFS is a great success so far, and will continue, but think about people that don't know the background, they don't know how LFS was born, they don't know the ins and outs. They download, they like, they purchase, and see this kind of behaviour on a licensed server, to me, that is not good, thats my whole point of this thread.

at the end of the day, its the DEVS product, its the DEVS income. If the online racing is crap ( what actually sells LFS ) then what?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

And the name "Fake Nick". Looks like he was hoping for some anonymity.

I raced him last night too, fakenick1988 is his real identity. I had no problems with him tho.

I've submitted one or two replays to Victor, showing what I consider to be blatant wrecking. I don't think it could be taken any other way. This guy still has his license. Ok, was he warned? What's the story?

Are we taken seriously when we submit a replay showing someone being a deliberate tool?

I would imagine the problems for the devs are, these people have paid their £24 like the rest of us, and it would be seen as unfair by many people to have their licences revoked because the way they race does is not in line with the commonly accepted way (i.e. driving the right way ). Also some people do it because they are bored, but otherwise drive fine most of the time. What can you do really. Maybe the devs could revoke their licence and refund their money, but then the devs are out of pocket for the sake of the community, with a small project such as this it may not be feasable. This is a problem that comes up in any public multiplayer game, and you have good days and bad days, but on the whole, most times of the day its quite easy to find a good race with honest people just out for a good time. Eventually people who go online just to bugger up someones evening get bored of it and stop doing it, or end up being banned from a lot of the popular servers.

I'm sure you would have noticed this when you handed your moolah over to the developers:

Quote from www.liveforspeed.net in the license agreement :

1.5Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.

i.e. if you're being a jerkoff, we reserve the right to revoke your license. We all agreed to that when we signed up.