List of the games which will be available at the Oculus Store on the launch day, along with the prices and comfort rating (+ some upcomming titles):




https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-coming-to-oculus-on-march-28/

No LFS

During the Epic Games press conference at GDC they've also announced that Oculus Rift SDK 1.3 will be realeased on the launch day.

You've dealt with that rather quickly. Is there anything else preventing LFS from being a Rift launch title? Is there anything else you want to implement or improve before Rift/Vive launches?

Tip: Make sure to turn off the basestations when using Rift CV1:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/49tv6f/psa_lighthouse_may_interfere_with_your_rift_cv1/
This may also apply to Rift DK1/DK2.

Video showing Vive's passthrough camera in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciEkUDnhs

Maybe it isn't much, but still a waste of energy. It's not something like a refrigerator which HAVE TO BE running 24h/d, you only need them on while you play. Let's not forget that despite they are quieter than on the DK1, they still make noise and you probably wouldn't want to hear that noise all day long when there is no reason for them to be running.

Both the headset and the basestations have some sort of wireless communication module. HMD uses it to communicate with the controllers (and phone?) and basestations use it to sync with eachother. Couldn't they make it so that when you turn your headset on, it sends a signal to basestations to turn on and when you turn it off they go into standby mode.

Say what you want, but for me it's a bad design, expecialy in a product that costs 899 Euro.

Quote from troy :

According to the computerbase review they are always on and you need to turn them off by either unplugging or by using a power strip with a switch.

That sucks.
The more I read about the Vive, the more I think they rushed it out a bit. As if they skipped that development stage where they make it more user friendly and easy to use.

Last edited by Amynue, Sun, 6 Mar 2016 08:49.

Quote from Scawen :

Yeah, I don't know why they display a chaperone if the program asks for seated mode. And why it's offset in front and to the left, after setting it up at the actual seated position. Seems buggy to me.

I remember that in the past you were using the Vive DK1 with one basestation because the second one was faulty. So right know are you using one or two basestations? Maybe it's not optimized for one-basestation-setup. All the videos I've seen of people using the Vive had always two basestations. Before you said you are using it with one, I thought that wouldn't even work.
I was also wondering - does the basestations automaticaly turn on and off when you are using the headset or do you have to turn them on and off manualy?

Quote from Scawen :

Tyre physics can wait another month.

I'm pretty sure some people will have a different opinion on that, they should be there shortly...

Quote from Scawen :

On the Rift side, I have been in touch with Oculus and there is still a possibility of having LFS in the Oculus store. This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA.

That would be great. On the launch day thousands of people will get their Rifts and once they are done playing with the bundled games they will go to the Oculus store to search for something new and there will be like 100 games at most (my guess), so there is a very high chance that they'll run into LFS. Free demo is very inviting.

I was expecting that you will be under NDA since I can't see any developer talking much about their Rift CV1 or Touch devkits beyond the fact that they have it. So... just nod your head if you are getting the Rift CV1 and SDK 1.0 before the launch.

Quote from Scawen :

One requirement is that it must be possible to operate the game with a controller only. For the last two days I have worked on a system that draws a crosshair in the view centre and allows you to click buttons using the space bar. Obviously this "Click" function needs to be assignable to a controller button.

Even if they wouldn't require that, I think it still would be worth implementing. It's hard to locate and operate your mouse and keyboard with the headset on.


Are you going to do anything with the Oculus Audi SDK in the future? I think that good postional audio is very important in VR and it's a big immersion multiplier.

It's up to HTC/Valve to sort this out by disabling chaperone in seated mode. Too bad the article makes it look like it's a bug in LFS rather than OpenVR SDK. Still, it's good to see LFS beeing mentioned somewhere.

Would be nice to see LFS on Steam or Oculus Store on the launch day, but as far as I know neither is possible. I do know there will be something called "Oculus Concepts" alongside Oculus Store, which will basicaly be what Oculus Share is right now, so maybe LFS will aprear at least there.

Are there any plans to implement any VR related features before the headsets start shipping? Like for example the image in the mirrors changing depending on head possition. I know the chaperone camera binded to a key is on the to-do-list.

Quote from Racer Y :

Uhhhh.... scawen shouldn't have to do a whole lot, if anything to make LFS VR compatable. Like I've said, I don't know the names for half of this stuff, but I do know they make some sort of third party drivers that pretty much allows you to play just about anything using the occulus.

I think you are talking about VorpX and it doesn't work with all games, here is the list:
http://www.vorpx.com/supported-games/
Scawen did alot more than just making it work with VR headsets. Menus and replays are displayed on a virtual monitor, HUD is floating in the air... you wouldn't be able to that with VorpX even if it would support LFS.

EDIT: They are definitely sending Vive Pres to the press, here is another Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUThUBrzhbM

EDIT2: HTC claims they took 15000 preorders in first 10 minutes. It's sold out until May.

Last edited by Amynue, Wed, 2 Mar 2016 19:51.

Quote from Scawen :

I don't see any apology at all. I don't even see how you can say that.

Quote from Amynue :

I'm sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience because of my irresponsible behavior.

If that wasn't enough of a apology then I'm sorry. Next time I'll write a poem.

Quote from Scawen :

On your current course you are heading for a ban.

Ask about some stupid cables and next thing you know someone gets offended by the question and you are heading for a ban.

Quote from Scawen :

bizarre nerd

Thanks for the insult, Scawen.


Ok, I'm serious from now on - no sarcasm.

Let's get back were we were - nice peaceful conversation. No more offensive cable questions. No more ban threats and insults. No sarcastic responses. Just a conversation about HTC Vive - wireless.

If I've caused trouble I'm sorry. I apologize to everyone. I'm a bad person.

I've admitted that I've made a mistake and apologized for it, what else do you want from me? Just let it go.

Good news is that now apparently they've started sending Vives to the press:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88KKpJu5q5I
Not sure why they send them Pre instead of the CV1. I think that confirms they are the same, because why would you send outdated hardware to the press.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Now, about this cable and foam thing. Is it still very important?

Rift DK2 had a few cables (two I think) held together with a plastic mesh, they were quite stiff. When you moved around or looked back you could feel it scratch your back, which was uncomfortable and immersion breaking. So I was wondering how is that on the Vive, since you can move around alot more with it - thanks to better tracking.

And I don't think I have to tell you about the importance of the facial interface material. It's what connects the headset with your face. DK2 had 2 layers of foam of different density and it was covered with some soft - nice to touch - material. It was not bad for a devkit. The foam on the Vive looks on the photos like that hard, ichy, scrachy type. And I've asked is it removable because you would probably like to wash it from time to time, with all that sweat and stuff going on.

It seems like little details but combined together they make a big difference in long term use.

Ok - I admit - I've made a horrible mistake and as a result many innocent people were hurt. I will no longer distract your slave with questions which - I suspect - would take him at least 73 hours to answer. I'm sorry you had to go through such a traumatic experience because of my irresponsible behavior. Hope your burns will heal soon.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Who is actually "the ass" here? Hhmm?

I don't know... maybe the guy who is not interested in VR, yet thinks it's a good idea to go into a thread about a VR headset and tell people they should stop talking about it.

Quote from cargame.nl :

People delaying development with irrelevant questions while they can easily research it themselves on dedicated product review websites. Thanks, well done!

There is no real reviews yet because they haven't sent any units to the press. It's only available to selected developers and Scawen happens to be one of them.

If you think VR support is a waste of time and it's delaying LFS development, I'm afraid you are wrong. From my perspective VR is what brought Scawen back to active development of LFS. He seems genuinely excited about new possibilities VR brings to the world of simracing. It also an opportunity to make LFS shine again and gain new players.

Quote from cargame.nl :

This isn't a product review thread, or is it? Shouldn't this be the task of other kids having this kind of stuff while not doing anything with it?

How did you manage to get third degree burns underwater?

I thought 43€ shipping cost for the Rift was a bit high, but if I was to preorder the Vive I would have to pay 72.57€. It's even worse for other countries - 90€ for Sweden and Finland, 96€ for Iceland.

Quote :

Includes the Vive headset, two wireless controllers, two base stations, link box, earbuds, Vive accessories, safety guide and warranty card.

Apparently it's bundled with the same HTC phone earbuds as Vive Pre. It was ok for a devkit but for a consumer version... not really. From what they were saying at CES not long ago it seemed like CV1 will have a integrated audio solution which Pre didn't have, meanwhile it's the same 'audio jack on the back + earbuds'.

Scawen, can you talk a bit more about the comfort in comparison to the Rift DK2?

To me DK2 was quite bad in terms of comfort, but it was a devkit so I was ok with that. If I tightened the strap too much it rested firmly on the face but it was uncomfortable because it was pushing too hard on the face. If I loosened the strap it would be more comfortable to wear, but during fast head movement it would move on my face and I had to often readjust it. Vive also uses elastic strap and it weights quite a bit more so I wonder how it compares.

What kind of material is the facial interface made of? Looks like a foam on the photos. Is it removable?

How thick and elastic the cables are comparing to DK2?

Preorders will start in 7 hours.
http://www.htcvive.com/
Is anyone in here going to preorder the Vive? If so I wish you good luck and I hope you won't run into any problems like I did with PayPal while preordering the Rift.
Make sure to create a HTC account in advance, not sure if it will be possible to preorder as guest, so better be safe.

Global Vive Prices:
http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws. ... 6-02-26-at-2.00.43-PM.png

EDIT: Mirror:
http://i.imgur.com/NM3a4Cq.png

EDIT2:
Official announcement:
http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/02/international-pricing-for-vive-pre-order/
Shipping starts April 5th.
Tilt Brush included for a "Limited time".
Unlike with the Rift, cash is charged at the time of Preorder, not when it ships.

Last edited by Amynue, Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:03.

Quote from Scawen :

No, I set it up for a seated experience.

In my opinion chaperone should be completely disabled in the "seated" mode. It's not like you are going to walk into a wall while seating.

Quote from Scawen :

Just trust me, the behaviour in the SteamVR system is buggy, wrong, inconsistent and annoying. Also, just try to imagine how many times I've reconfigured and reconfigured the area setup, trying to fix this.

It's still in developement so let's hope it won't be as bad when Vive launches.

Quote from Scawen :

There are some crappy little earphones, yes. But I am not interested for one second to stick them in my ears. I have headphones if I wanted to use them. But I am in a racing simulator and I have to put the headset on and take it off loads of times. Also I have to lift it frequently to see the keyboard. So actually it is not really good that it disables my speakers without asking me, and that there is no option to enable them. I am in a seated experience and have a warm box on my face. It's going to be more comfortable to not have headphones on if you are trying to race for an hour, unless you like being drenched with sweat and your VR headset to be fogged up.

Now I am just supposing here, but Valve don't seem to think about seated experiences a lot. As a Vive user, I can see that the seated experience support is very buggy and it's the same with the speakers, it's an oversight. They don't seem to really test seated things or think about them much.

I don't know why they didn't integrate the headphones into the headset - expecialy that they are required to use the headset after all. It's very inconvenient having to put the headset on and then, put the headphones on when you are blindfolded. The Rift have integrated headphones and you can put it on with only one hand thanks to the rigid strap. One of the reasons I went for the Rift over Vive.

Quote from Scawen :

No, that was the last I heard.

You should shoot him an email. Launch is only a month away.


In case anyone have been wondering - weight of the headsets (without wires):
Rift DK1 - 380g
Rift DK2 - 440g
Rift CV1 - 470g (including headphones)
Vive Pre - 555g

Sources:
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1563473&p=18524910#post18524910
http://riftinfo.com/oculus-rift-specs-dk1-vs-dk2-comparison
https://gfycat.com/BrilliantHotDamselfly

EDIT: Significant part of the Rift CV1 weight goes into the strap:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/47rb3m/the_rift_cv1_is_66_heavier_than_the_dk2_470g_vs/d0f5y8j
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/47rb3m/the_rift_cv1_is_66_heavier_than_the_dk2_470g_vs/d0f4vzn?context=3

Last edited by Amynue, Sat, 27 Feb 2016 06:42.

Quote from Scawen :

Once I managed to run SteamVR long enough to be able to switch off the awful "chaperone" which is an annoying grid that just makes a mess of the picture.

As far as I know chaperone is supposted to show up only when you get close to the boundaries of your "play space", which you assign during the installation. So you may have to reconfigure that.

Quote from Scawen :

By default, the Vive takes over the sound and it wants you to wear headphones.

That's kinda good since the speakers are not good for VR and the software is written with headphones in mind. Not sure if you noticed, but Vive Pre have a cable with audio connector somewhere near the back of the strap. Did you get earphones with your Pre? Some guy on Reddit claims that his Pre was bundled with some HTC in-ear earphones.

Quote from Scawen :

I am interested in the camera, that supposedly allows you to see the world, temporarily, through the headset. That would be helpful to see the keyboard when online. Although there is only one camera so I expect the scale of things to look a bit funny.

Yes, many people who tried it, noticed that the image wasn't 1:1 and everthing apeared to be a couple inches further than it was in reality. That's probably because the camera is a few inches away from the possition of your eyes and it not real steroscopic image. Well but still should be good enough to locate your keyborard, phone or booze. Definitely something worth implementing. Rift DK2 had the nose gap for that

Quote from Scawen :

The unit looks much nicer, smaller, and is a lot shorter from front to back. I found it more comfortable than the old Vive.

Could you check how much it weights? Would apriciate it.

A bit off topic but - any news on your submission for the Rift CV1/SDK 1.0? I've seen that your thread on Reddit about patch 0.6M caught the attention of Philanthropi (Developer Relations, Oculus VR).
By the way you should request a developer flair.

Quote from Scawen :

The Pre arrived this weekend. I should be able to have a look early this week. First I have to release a test patch with a couple of updates, either Monday or Tuesday afternoon.

Happy to hear that, thanks.

Quote from Scawen :

I am not sure why it has inbuilt phone functionality.

Smartphones are what HTC is mostly known for so probably it didn't cost them much extra to implement that, but it does seem quite pointless and adds unnecesary weight and bulk to a headset which is already quite overweight compared to the Rift.

I was wondering... does Eric have any VR headset? Now that you have the Pre, DK1 is of no use to you, so maybe you could give it to Eric so he can step into the world he modeled You could go even further and implement VR into the editor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio - Unreal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzjxRi5J4XI - Unity

EDIT:
Not sure if that website is to be trusted but it claims that the Vive will cost £689 in the UK (€882).
http://mashable.com/2016/02/21/htc-vive-price-release-date/#U4gpl5Fluuqc

Last edited by Amynue, Sun, 21 Feb 2016 23:22. Reason : unconfirmed UK price

Yep, it's official:
http://blog.htcvive.com/2016/02/unveiling-the-vive-consumer-edition-and-pre-order-information/

Preorders "for a limited time" will be bundled with Job Simulator and Fantactic Contraption.

As I've expected CV1 is basicaly a Vive Pre/DK2 with some minor changes. At CES 2016 they were saying that CV1 will have integrated headphones, better straps and whatnot... can't see that.

Vive Pre reveal video 12.01.2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlD3H1xSakw

CV1 reveal video 21.02.2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxDQycSyDg

Copy-paste with some extra bit in the middle showing the eye-relief adjustment.

Well the price I think is quite reasonable... $200 more than the Rift but you get the motion controlers and 2 basestations vs one camera and Xbox one gamepad. If Oculus Touch will cost around $200 then the pricing for the headset + motion controlers will be nearly the same for Rift and Vive.

I wonder what will be the price for Europe... it's confirmed to be more.
There will be more news from MWC 2016 which starts tommorrow.

Pre-orders start on February 29th at 10am Eastern (7am PST / 12 Noon GMT)

Launch countries:
http://i.imgur.com/aARSpDg.jpg

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks, yes I did get an email this morning!

So please, Scawen let us know how is the Vive Pre once it arrives, since it's basicaly the same as CV1.

Also - do you have any plans for the passthrough camera? In the article I've posted earlier, if you watch the video and go to 11:25, the guy from HTC says that you could possible project a steering wheel in the lower part of your peripheral vision. So basicaly you could play LFS and see your actual steering wheel inside the game through the camera. Even if this would be possibly I don't think it would be easy to implement and wouldn't work very well... but worth looking into, I guess.

Last edited by Amynue, Sun, 21 Feb 2016 21:54. Reason : link at the top of my post wasn't supposted to be there and some misspelings

They are starting to ship DK2:
http://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/666899628994620161
Did you get any email Scawen?

Palmer did another AMA on Reddit today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/

Quote :

Quote :

Oculus were apparently surprised by how fast the preorders are coming in. Do you plan to scale up production in order to meet the demand?

Yes.

Good to hear that. Not really comfortable with the fact that my order was pushed to May thanks to PayPal.

AMA with Maximum PC Editor Jimmy Thang who got to try both Rift CV1 and Vive Pre at CES 2016:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4052s0/maximum_pc_editor_jimmy_thang_here_and_ive_tried/
It's worth reading the whole thing but here is what he said about the FOV:

Quote :

FOV is kind of subjective, but in general, I want to say the Vive has a taller FOV and the Oculus has a wider one.

Vive uses circular lenses while the ones on the Rift (Crescent Bay) look more like those of that Weareality 150 degree headset. So they may be stretching the image a bit horizontaly and squeezing it verticaly.

Quote from aaltomar :

The whole thing is to see in "3D" and maybe they are optimizing for that. It's still going to be a bag of compromises.

Every pixel you put in your periheral vison is one pixel less in the center of the screen - and that's where you will be looking most of the time. We use our peripheral mostly for awarnes of our surroundings and when you see something interesting going on in your peripheral you just turn your head this way to inspect it and look at it directly. Try moving your eyes to the left as far as you can for awhile - within seconds you will start feeling discomfort and strain in your eye muscles, so most of the time we turn our head istead of our eyes to see something in our far peripheral. 2160x1200 is not much to play with - if you make the FOV very high and your peripheral vision very sharp, you will have a blury image in the center, you won't be able to read text, see in the distance and so on.
In the future when we'll have 4k+ resolution headsets it will be much easier to add some extra FOV without notably sacrificing overal image quality. Eye tracking will alow to render more pixels in the direcion your eyes are currently looking using foveated rendering - this will also reduce the load on your GPU by eliminating the need of rendering pointles pixels in the direction where you aren't looking anyway.

Quote from Scawen :

It's a pretty pointless discussion

That was exactly my point from the beginning - there is no point discussing how bad pheripheral vision of Rift CV1 is and how it could have been avoided, if non of us actually tried it and can tell if pheripheral vision is good or bad on it.

Quote from Shotglass :

if they ebayed their dk1 early enough the probably actually got paid money and got a free cv1

Speaking of Ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xrift+cv1.TRS0&_nkw=rift+cv1&_sacat=0
I hope Oculus will cancel their orders like they did with DK2. People like these are one of the reasons why shipping date was pushed back to June within less than 24 hours.

Quote from Shotglass :

the image makes it also look like there might be a problem with packaging the screens any closer to each other

There is a slider on the bottom of the headset that lets you adjust the IPD. It moves whole lens/screen assembly closer or further apart. Here Palmer shows how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpP7E7o3ZOY

Quote from Shotglass :

since both the vive and the rift have standadised on the same screens and orientation im guessing theres a good technical reason for it

Nah, it's just a conspiracy against humanity. Don't be silly.

Quote from Scawen :

It is actually quite irritating how you defend every action by Oculus as if it is beyond reason to consider they might have made any kind of mistake in anything.

I'm not sure is it me defending Oculus or you attacking them. Not for us to judge, but the fact that you still insist that you would have engineered the screens better makes me think it's the latter of the two. Also, in this case I wasn't speaking defensively about Oculus but also HTC, since they use very similar screens, with same portrait orientation, resolution and refresh rate. Sony also uses 16:9 screen for Playstation VR which is roughtly the same aspect ratio.

By the way it's the optics that decide about the FOV rather than the screen, here you have 150 degree FOV out of a 16:9 screen (DK2 had 100 degree FOV at 16:9):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wearality/wearality-sky-limitless-vr/description
Article about it:
http://www.roadtovr.com/wearality-150-degree-lenses-are-a-balancing-act-not-a-breakthrough/