So, anychance we could maybe get a round going tonight? o.O and maybe a track list?

agreed russraine.

Though, for physics calculations, the PS3 would totally own my very own computer.

o.o though i kinda wish they would've put in a gig of ram... ._. would've been SO helpful..

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Its just funny that everyone slags them off, then as soon as they bring an update (which could be next year for all we know i might add) they all go brown nosing "hey scawen your liek the best dev ever, i want your babies!!!" is so weird and so 2 faced.

Its like when kids hate their mums or dads, then as soon as they're bought something they arse lick for a couple of months one of my mates is a perfect example and it bugs the shit out of me, so shallow.

Sharon/5haz - I spelt arse like ass because i didn't think it would get through the swear filter, but it does so Whats your deal anyway? Are you trying to be Tristan's predecessor? Your certainly heading that way

Also, don't forget, it's like a relationship. If your girlfriend/boyfriend isn't telling you nothing (mind you this is in a relationship based about more than sex.. like mine. mine involves video games. ^_^ i love my gamer chick) and you don't hear from them for over 7 months, and you keep calling and wondering whats going on and you know their getting your message but they don't say anything back, would you get a little pissed?

Then, at the same time, if they come back and say "YOU KNOW WHAT!? Lets have hardcore sex for an entire week, PLUS, I *insert something that adds to your sexual fantasy here*" (similar to this new tire system) wouldn't you be extremely happy?

i know i would.

^_^ SO GO DEVS. you're just... awesome.

Well, i'll take a pic of my setup...

gonna go out and get some things for it and open it up for ya guys...

^_^ plan on getting a GTX285 (best gfx so far...) sooooo things should improve. ^_^ at least some things..

2 hours, 5 minutes, 30 seconds

glad to see you're working on this =D ^_^ this will be so epic!

Though I would imagine that you would then have to look at the predefined config?

Quote from obsolum :

And you can adjust the rear ARB a tiny bit. Now this is what the setup options on the road cars in LFS should be like

amen to zat *noticing your sig*


I'm going to be laughing all night because of that.. it's so true XD

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Technically the car is HOF:

2000+ votes, and the highest scoring car EVER! at 488/500! I didn't expect THAT!

o.o honestly? it's that way for a reason

1) It's beautiful. you probably only lost 12 points because some loser didn't like the fact that you didn't add NOS or something...

2) It drives PERFECTLY

3) Damage is a bit off in places... like i noticed that when you break a door off you can see through the car a little. (towards the front. I can see my tire through the chasis after breaking a door off) but it damages BEAUTIFULLY.

4) just... EPIC. o.o now if we raced these with fixed setups... that would be the greatest racing EVER. *cause i dont know how much customization we get without fixed sets XD*

Amazing car Niels. o.o I love it.....

more! o.o we neeeeeed more quality mods like this!! >< THIS SHOULD BE HOF!!!

You can get six axis to work... though it's a bit difficult. (i had it working at one point)

And no the pressure sensitive buttons dont work.

=) I've been using mine whenever i'm too lazy to hook up my wheel, haha.

And who knows what the future might yield? (Though... the new Supra in rFactor feels great... so i might just play that more... o.O)

But... that's just it....

Sure CTRA is dead... but the object of having a public server we can all enjoy surely can't be dead entirely. If it is, this game will eventually fall to the likes of iRacing. (I've had more continuous fun races on there than I've had on here. Actually, I've only had one true experience as fun as CTRA and that was on Old-skool racing or something like that. Pretty fun. Only raced KY1 though. =/

Race 1 was my personal favorite. Alway enjoyed it. Occasionally won, occasionally didn't. I didn't worry about my license. I just liked the close racing, the fun layouts, the enjoyable atmosphere. And the BnJ server was always a great stress relief. Much better than these now annoying cruise servers. Seriously, they just remind me of my obnoxious cousin. "Oh lets not race... lets just cruise..." ..... but this is Need for Spee... "Oh... nonono... we're not racing. We're just cruising. Look at me and my... JAGuARR"......

I mean.. if that sounds offending to gays... sorry.. but he does talk like that.
> > So... my point is.. even if i have to do it myself, is it possible to bring back the soul of CTRA. Not the licenses, not the points, but the racing itself. Is that possible? I mean, even in it's prime, NR2003 had OpenSpeedway and TeamXtremeRacing (i think thats what it was call o.O), the two most popular public servers at the time. OpenSpeedway STILL exists, and i have the joy to be a part of a 30 man race. A 30 man race, with NO server browser. Sierra took that offline. Now if you're still getting 30 people in at one time, you're doin something right. But i realize it was all because the racing was close, you know it's there, and people will join.

We just need a server like that. Sound impossible, but can be done... and i personally think it should be, but hey, thats just one guys opinion.

Also, PS3 games will continue to get better as people get better at programming for it. Sure, you might think 5 years and it'll reach it's peak. But programmers can be an inventive bunch.

...figured you wouldn't.

i could cut it into sub-posts.


did you at least read the "final thoughts" part?

This is the problem of ingenuity we're having in the world.... everything has to be a realistic goal.

Did they think getting to the moon was realistic? No, they thought it was preposterous.

Did they think the earth was round? No said the realistic man, the earth is a flat plane. You are an idiot.

Is the sun the center of the universe? No says the Vatican, everything revolves around the sun as GOD intended it. That is just crazy.

Will it be possible to fly around the earth in 80 days? Crazy, unimaginable, unthinkable. Now we can do it in a few hours.


I'm usually a realistic thinker myself, but only when it comes to things pertaining of severe importance, like politics, school, and stuff like that. But when it comes to innovation, invention, and added functions, it's all about imagination. How do you think games like Gear of War are created? Do you think the people who created Katamari were thinking realistically? Who would have thought that a system meant for military use would be used in the future to house subjects such as this.

My acquaintance, everything around you was once a crazy idea, only floating in the thought bubble of one or a few men and women. Personally, I find it crazy how you can take these imaginative thoughts for granted.

Like I've said before, this is just a thought, and as such, should be provoked a bit. I've learned a bit of things from what you said, which was actually my true intention. It wasn't to see if using a Linux based port of LFS could work, but rather to find out why it doesn't work, which you gave very nice points.

I've realized from the beginning that the only good and true way to get LFS would be to port it to use the intended PS3 architecture.

Though, like I've said, if you have an idea on how to get LFS to work on the PS3, it doesn't hurt to try. You might just get on to something.

I mean, look at how by chance they found penicillin.

Edit: Also, knowing most people that lurk on the forums, you probably think that I'm just giving up cause I don't have a comeback. Sorry, but it's the way I was raised. Step-father always questioned things. How could you get it to work, why doesn't it work, what would need to happen to get it to work. Something just not working for a few reasons isn't a reason at all, but rather to get the whole picture is the best way for any debate to end. Also, the information a few people will gain from this thread is not pointless, so don't throw me that garbage. This thread is a perfectly good discussion. You are not a realist my neither-friend-nor-enemy person, but instead are a pessimist in the ruse of a realist. A realist sees the glass neither half empty, nor half full. He sees the glass for what it is. It takes an innovator to see what he can do with this glass containing a certain amount of milk. You are most certainly saying that the glass is half empty. It's impossible. You can't do it. There is no possible way. A realist wouldn't be so negative. A realist sees it for what it is. There is a possibility, but what it would take to do such a thing, we just don't know. We know of one way, but it is 99.999~% unlikely, and that would be a patch from Sony to allow it, but in the foreseeable future, it won't happen because they would want to protect PS3 games, and so you don't damage your system. It might not be a feasible idea, but it is still there, thus making it a possibility. Also, the way you are using "realistic" is in essence the business term. What might be "realistic" goals for one person could be "unrealistic" for another. For example, I don't live in a Peter Pan fantasy world. I live in your world. The same world as most of us do. But how can you say something is realistic to someone else? Do we see the same colors? Hear the same sounds? Or is realism a matter of interpretation, all in how our brain collects this data and puts it together. Reality is nothing but how you perceive it yourself. For instance, if you and a spouse were to get into an argument. You could say the same thing, but barely scratch the surface of your true intents and meanings. The "reality" of the situation would be what you were both thinking, and even if you could read each others thoughts, due to how both of you analyze, perceive, and relate, there are major differences in how you would interpret each others thoughts. This would cause conflicting "realities".

So... really, your statements of me having unrealistic thoughts can actually be countered. You stating that there is no possible way that this could happen is an unrealistic thought in itself. There is that possibility. What is the likelihood of LFS being on the PS3? Depends. If someone finds a hack to the PS3, then it's probability is increased. Scawen could accept a major "donation" from Sony, and thus release LFS as an indie game on the Playstation Store. There is a possibility. Just very small, unlikely, and, in a phrase you would understand, "Not going to happen.", but even that is an unrealistic phrase. So, go ahead, call me an idiot. Call this thread useless. If this thread is useless, then I wonder what threads are more useless than this. Probably about 90% of the internet.

These are just some final thoughts cause I went on a trail of discussion in that paragraph.

1) Informative
2) Very informative, until the short answer. That wasn't informative.
3) informative
4) Very very informative, even the short answer
5) I never thought of it as a 6-core beast, though i may have worded it that way. It does have more power than most dual-cores anyway, so still, it is quite a beast. But informative nonetheless.
6) You know whats a waste of mental effort? Everything can be a waste of mental effort. It really all depends on what the person wants to talk about to begin with. But at least it's better to put forth mental effort than become brainless zombies like most pre-pubescents on XBOX Live. Also, I've seen a few indie games on the PS3, so I wouldn't imagine it impossible to get a dev-kit, though as you've said, the threading would be difficult, and in Scawens case, more than he needs at the moment.

I wasn't all excited. I was just wondering if there were work arounds and such, but it wasn't a waste either. You put great points as to why it just doesn't work, but not necessarily in a "realistic", though reasonable fashion. There was going to be nothing to tear down to begin with. If I was going to start it, I would start it expecting little to no results, but I'd still give it my best effort if I was going to try.

So, I hope you honestly read this post. I see nothing we should continue here about whether or not it's possible. If someone wants to add on and say "I have an idea" and it is a logical thought, then so be it. Why not discuss it? It sure is more meaningful to discuss something than just say random things or post random pictures. These are the types of discussions that USED to be on forums before they became playgrounds for leet-speaking, overly idiotic, insenstive 12 year olds who have nothing better to do but talk about their E-penises.

And that, good sir, ends my post.

Last edited by Arsenic_Fox, Thu 3 Sep 2009, 06:04.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

1) Doesn't work, No 3d support in Linux on PS3
2) Qemu makes it even slower, and Linux on PS3 is already slow (due to small RAM).
3) LFS does have decent Linux support, in fact is basically 100% supported in Wine.
4) We can't convert it as we don't have access to the source code. I'd go as far to assume that Scawen is the only one that has source code in fact.
5) SPU's are different from CPU's. SPU can only basically execute a function and return it to the CPU (SPU has no memory access), whereas a CPU has full hardware access.

6) Stop this whole thread, it will not happen, it cannot happen, and even now that the new PS3's are lacking the ability to do Linux... it is even less likely (and that's becoming less likely than impossible).

Yeah, Migz will pull out "OMG I DID IT", but show me it being playable with 32 cars or even 10 AI and I'll concede but at this point it will never happen.

/thread.

1) Seeing how LFS is mostly CPU dependent, I don't really think that would be a problem.
2) Any possible way to use something as external ram? (Possibly program it? Hey, you never know the possiblity)
3) Just because it works in Wine, doesn't mean it's supported by Linux. Wine is (at least, without recompiling it... which is a pain) only usable on i386 processors i believe. Point is the PS3 uses PowerPC based cpus, apparently making Wine not work.
4) ... Doesn't mean Scawen couldn't hire someone to convert it.
5) Pretty sure that all the SPU's are under control of a main CPU. ...

honestly... this entire thing is Kind of enjoyable to think about...

6) Who says you NEED linux to do ANYTHING?

People like you really take the joy out of any discussion, you know that?

I mean, your thought is "Oh, if we just stop the thread now, then no one will ever think about it again." But to be honest, this thread is more informational than 75% of the internet. (40% of that space is taken up by 4Chan and it's similar forums).

I will continue to theorize how it could possibly work, just for the hell of it. =) Nothing you can do about it :P

Quote from Bose321 :

I'm pretty sure I am not jealous...

Yes you are. Just you don't realize it cause your so jealous *kidding*

Honestly, the PS3 is a blessing and a curse. No one is ever online, but when they are, hell is it fun. ^_^ I love my metal gear online (though i wish the damn thing wasn't region locked >< oh well)

=/ Plus it does count as a bluray player, which is kind of nice.. (even though the downloadable media is getting popular, i still like to have a hardcopy, just incase i don't have internet or my harddrive goes bad o.O)

Last edited by Arsenic_Fox, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 20:47.

Personally, I just missed the good old racing. I miss the track layouts, I miss how the servers were almost ALWAYS full. I miss how when i raced i usually could say hi to a friendly face, or at least if i was losing a lot, i could ask for a bit of advice.

I also really miss the BnJ layouts...

but this new idea sounds very promising, and almost seems like a very big undertaking. o.o I wish i could almost pay you to finish this project. XD

(but i have no job... > > and i'm 18 so i kinda need to start worrying about getting myself started in life... soooo.. yeah.. > >)

that would be fantastic. =D

I will say this. The PS3 is quite powerful on the CPU end of things, and as such, using wine, LFS could actually run quite well... but with only 256mb of ram... > > Don't expect too much..

That and i'm pretty sure.. yeah..

Though this version of Ubuntu looks quite promising.

http://news.softpedia.com/news ... u-7-10-on-PS3-73272.shtml


So theoretically it IS possible if you use Qemu... or if LFS was given more Linux support. =/

(cause you have access to 6 of 7 Cell Processors, all of which run at 3.2ghz i'm pretty sure.)

So.. really... all we need is more steering wheel support and more Linux support from LFS. XD that and a special edition that takes advantage of the 6 cell processors. maybe we could find someone willing enough to start the conversion process?

(not me. o.o i have no idea how to use linux to begin with. i just know the basics, and a lot about the PS3 XD)

Now, if anyone who has the quick ability to install a copy of linux (even that ubuntu i showed you) and test it out... =D that would be cool.

Last edited by Arsenic_Fox, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 07:31.

Also, i found this nice bit of info... Kinda funny when you think about it

Quote :

According to Killzone 2 devs, the PS3 is easier to develop for than the 10 year old PS2. Herman Hulst, managing director of Guerrilla Games had this to say about developing for PS3.

“If you are native to PlayStation, our tech director doesn’t say it’s particularly difficult. It’s specific, but it’s not difficult like PS2 was difficult - PS2 was difficult to crack, but PS3 didn’t take us a long time to get up and running.”

Hulst concluded that multiplatform developers could have more issues because the PlayStation 3 “is very different” from other consoles. Though that’s not all, as another Guerrilla Games employee, developer director Arjan Brussee, added:

“I actually think PS3 is a simpler architecture than some of the other consoles; you just have to have a certain mindset on how to address it. I think the Cell-based processor with the SPUs and the super high speed DSPs that you can throw all your calculation tasks at gives us a model that’s way easier to program for, even for junior programmers, than the general purpose multi-core type of architecture, which the PC and Xbox 360 have.”

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

Obviously, it would be hard to say atm, so i wouldn't be able to say whether which one is more advanced etc.



Wait, when was i putting the PS3 down? If you read my post again, i also said that the 360 wouldn't be able to run it either, as both are similary specced. I still dont think consoles would be powerful enough to run LFS, even if you did get everything re-written. Whats the point in this conversation anyway? Its not like its EVER going to happen.

.... > > .... ............

o.o you know.....

now your going to make someone want to try...

plus the fact that the G25 works on the PS3 also sort of adds an incentive... > >

(also..... here's a nice little chart)

This is folding@home. This is how much the ps3 does compared to other Operating systems

TFLOPS Active CPUs Total CPUs
Windows 152 160,173 1,626,609
Mac/PPC 7 8,776 95,435
Mac/Intel 9 2,864 7,400
Linux 43 25,239 216,067
GPU 43 733 2,228
PS3 659 26,911 29,843


This graph shows something i barely understand, probably something involving the amount of teraflops compared to a Graphics Processing Unit, the PS3, and conventional top of the line general purpose cpus (such as quad-cores)



And this is based on the technology out 2 years ago.... (mind you, most people run LFS on computers from about 2-5 years ago, sometimes even more!) Mine is about 2 years old, and it runs LFS using an AMD Athlon 64 Dual Core pretty easily.

(based on the newest CPU and GPU as of March 23, 2007)

Intel Core Duo 1x
PS3 7.8x faster
GPU 18.6x faster


So... > > as you can see.... even with the 7800gtx GPU (which is actually pretty good compared to MY graphics card, imho), you could actually achieve more with the PS3 than you could a normal computer for a game such as LFS.

> > That added with the amazing G25 could lead to an amazing new audience to spread! =) (and you could make there be a way to release mods even through easy PS3 installers)

Not that it would happen... o.o but still...would be pretty cool in theory. Even MOAR physics calculations XD

Now, the next thing would be that most of the graphics "post-processing" and such would have to be coded directly into the cell-cpus, but that wouldn't be so much of a problem as LFS barely has any to begin with. =)

The hardest thing about coding with the PS3 though is the fact that the 6 usable processors are asymmetrical, making it a bit difficult to code for. But, for the most part, the PS3 could CERTAINLY handle Live for Speed.

The 360 could handle LFS, and possibly even match the PS3 version to an extent. Graphically it would be easier to code for, but the fact remains that it uses 3, less powerful, but symmetric processors, which again, are easier to code for (which is why it also has more games =/).

To be honest, if the game had an architecture that could be easily transcribed over to the PS3, it could actually preform better (if programmed right) than the current PC version.

But again, this is all theory. PS3 is more powerful than most computers and the 360, but again its that damn 7800GTX that bottlenecks the PS3 on most "next gen" games =(

^_^ I personally would just like a copy of LFS i could carry around easier XD than dragging my PC everywhere..... (which is more expensive now, due to the PS3's new 300 dollar price tag)

Personally, I'd love to see the PS3 get a copy of LFS. =) but that's just me XD


(PS: I do understand that graph, just i can't really.. explain it... without sounding like a dumbass XD)

Last edited by Arsenic_Fox, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 05:16.

Well.. still... as a sim, it should be replicated....

I mean, i'll gladly wait for things like weather if the do the slightly simpler stuff first...

(I mean, they already have code for the mirror.... whats copy and paste going to hurt with a few adjustments here and a fine-tunement there?)

Very imformative! Realism should be the basis of the game to begin with, yes?

=) You should really be working for the LFS guys your sounds are really quite good (I really liked the sound of that BF1... sounded pretty close as far as i could tell, a few things here and there, but that's probably just LFS's sound architecture i would assume?)

o.O i don't remember there being any NOS in GT4......

> > And hopefully they mean 43 car nascar races... XD

Any chance on an update of this?

Seriously? It was epic... =(

so.... gill... just a question...

do you have like a basic sound pack that makes the cars just... sound like they probably should?

Like that BF1 you got in the video... stuff like that, just a general sound pack for engines?

Cause i'd just like a replacement for all the sounds i got, and really don't want to look through 44 pages to find the "correct" ones.