Quote from Bawbag :

On the topic of is it or isn't it cheating, it is, your taking an unfair advantage over your opponents. About two years ago I used the button clutch for XFG at blackwood because "everyone" done it, it gave less advantage back then and on every shift I would have to press the clutch at the right time, so it was faster when you done it properly but now when everyone is just setting up a macro it's just retared. They are shifting in the same way as we are, nothing more nothing less, yet they are gaining up to half a second a lap....

People who use it are just weak and desperate, end of.

+1, It's just that simple guys.

Quote from FlintFredstone :

I think if scawen just stops the button clutch speed (engauge speed, leave disengauge for anti-stall) a little it would combat the problem straight away

Simon

That might do the trick.

Not my favorite slow mo but great work, that crash was cool!

Quote from Glenn67 :

Your right I have no clue, never was pertending I was a guru of racing I'm just an average joe who likes a good battle on the track and isn't too fussed at the end of the day whether I come first or second but that's just my perspective I know as I said earlier I don't see anyone racing for sheep stations here.

I really want to apologize for this... I try not to be so harsh but sometimes subjects, such as this, just let the beast out. Though I don't agree, I should have said this in a more civilized manor...

Quote from Glenn67 :

Well that begs more questions to its legitimatecy rather than closing the case In LFS you can reduce the steering rotation and the FFB so you have win/win not win/lose. And while having around 270deg might be legit in F1 LFS has alot more cars than the BF1 why should people be driving the standard road cars with sequenial shifting and 240deg wheel rotation - that is imo cheating just the same as using a macro clutch and with greater speed differences in an average race, but again that's my opinion

That really might be a nice add-on to the game to be honest... If you run so many degrees under the standard, your FFB goes up a certain amount. Only problem is some people don't run FFB.

However the radius in which a car steers is adjustable with all cars (without a complete replacement of the steering system) while having faster shifts (this is usually depended on the driver or transmission) is not.

Quote from Glenn67 :

I am not saying any position is right or wrong, I just think there is a lot of double standards on what is regarded as PC and whats not. I would agree we should reduce the difference that exist as much as possible, but at the same time I think there is many more and some that could never be monitored so it doesn't make sense to turn this into a witch hunt but instead keep it a civilized discussion, that is the intent of my posts.

Well that would be like saying that people who have low FPS are at a disadvantage and deserve a pat on the back... The fact is that once you get into a high end level of sim racing (IE world record pace) the wheel nor anything (including this marco) else, other than driver skill, should have anything to do with the pace in which a driver can perform. If you can't compete with your wheel, then upgrade IMO.

Quote from Glenn67 :

What people fail to understand is that nothing is ever equal, we can endevour to make things as equal as possible and we should but unless everyone has exactly the same physical setup and circumstances then things cant be equal.

Well my response to this is really simple... Some people left foot brake while others right foot brake. If you want to be on the level adjust... Adjusting is not downloading a script that makes you shift faster.

Quote from Glenn67 :

What about people that make there own controllers? They could make them with better features which would give an advantage.

Such as?

Quote from Glenn67 :

That's the point I'm trying to make also. The macro clutch thingy is not the only way people gain advantages over others in LFS, so why is the macro clutch so politically incorect when some of the other things are so widely accepted as PC

So your acutally going to sit there and say a mod that allows drivers to shift faster (THAT IS NOT PART OF THE GAME) should be allowed. Other than the radius of steering, there is nothing to back up your case... Well hell if that's the case why not just start editing the engine... After that we could make the car lighter. Then we could add NOS after that.

The simple fact is, if you allow someone to modify the way the transmission works, then everything should be adjustable, or it is a cheat... No modifications to the game should be allowed unless all driver experience the same results, period.

Quote from Riders Motion :

Actually I do:



I totally get Nolan sometimes!

You have completely redeemed yourself!

Quote from e2mustang :

why u guys have to see the front? Feel it BABY!!! Dont drive like IRL girls... :P

Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat. I can't see the front of my car on my daily driver ether...

Imagine how an F1 driver feels, those guys sit so low they can barely see (exaggeration) the track...

[quote=chanoman315;867135]:/ .... not many people feel comfortable or get many fps by using it.... or have a good monitor to feel it realistic .../quote]

Feel comfortable with what, digital gauges or on board views?

Quote from Glenn67 :

I have tried using button clutch back in 2004/5 because alot of well known fast drivers were using it back then, just to see what the fuss was about and at that time I could see there was about a 0.1 to 0.2 difference which for racing isn't that big a difference for the extra complexities of using a button as clutch so I didn't bother any further with it.

Well if you dont think having a .1 to .2 difference isn't a notable advantage in a race then you just simply have NO, and I mean NO clue what so ever, of what racing is.

Quote from Glenn67 :

In my view using unrealisticly small steering rotation like 240deg instead of 720deg gives you far greater advantage than using a macro for changing gears and by the logic of this witch hunt should also be banned, which btw wouldn't dissapoint me

As an example using 240deg rotation I can do 0.4 - 0.5 sec per lap faster and more consitantly than using 720 deg so it should be banned because if I want to run 720 deg which is realistic then I'm at a huge disadvantage.

You can change the degree in which a wheel turns... The only side effect is that the wheel will become harder to steer (the force in which it takes to rotate) when you decrease the radius.

How often have you seen an F1 driver rotate the wheel more than 360 or 480 degrees? I rest my case.

Quote from Glenn67 :

Then we could go on about views, does using custom wheels view give you an advantage over cockpit view? I would contend that it does as you can be far more precise with your entries and exits to corners - and we all know that can shave off many 0.1 sec's per lap. What about real gauges verses virtual gauges? I certainly can read the virtual one more clearly, so that is a big advanatge over those that choose to use real gauge mode. Again the more accurately you know speed mid corner the closer and more consistantly you can be at the limit. Again many 0.1 sec's in a race. I could go on and on about differences.

As for the views, I think cockpit should be enforced at all times... As for the gauges, nether matter... Most of the good drivers do this by timing, sound, and sometimes feel.

Quote from Glenn67 :

I can't believe so many believe that we all have a level playing field. Of course we don't, every type of controller choice in LFS will have advantages and disadvantages. Setting up LFS and your controller does have an impact on you ultimate speed that's a fact that reaches far beyound the macro clutch issue. It has just as much impact as car setup imo.

Agreed, but having a different controler and using a cheat that makes the car shift faster don't even fall into the same realm...

The simple fact of the matter, this Marco (or what ever it's called) adjusts the game in a way the devs did not want it adjusted. Secondly, it give everyone that doesn't use it a big (an advantage is an advatage rather it's .1 or .001) disadvatage... I don't see how anyone can look at this as a form of fairness. People kill me saying that it isn't a big advantage.... ANY ADVANTAGE IS AN ADVANTAGE!

Last edited by BigTime, Thu 17 Jul 2008, 03:14.

Very nice. I would like to see a little more zoom but that's a great movie.

Quote from diablo21 :

You realize the script doesn't give you a 1 second advantage right? If someone beats you by 1 second it's cause you're doing something wrong, or not good enough.. Now probably if the guy that beats you by one second didn't use the script the times would be.. what 7 tenths maximum? Still alot..

Well of course this depends on the track but any advantage is an advantage. I'm tied with people on the world record chart... So even if it was only a .05 of an advantage, it's still unfair to those who don't have it.

Quote from 510N3D :

1. What are the devs thinking about this? (I believe its pointless at some point to argue about it unless there is no official statement from you guys)

2. Just in case you agree that this is a way of gaining an advantage and unfair towards the "regular user", is there a solution in order to deny this or do we all have to make use of it now (or worse...) (sort of an official feature or something, meaning to reduce the timing/ mechanism of the auto clutch/ optimzing manual clutch to reduce/ erase the advantage for instance)?

Have i missed something? If so then please let me know.

Yeah, I want to hear what the dev's have to say about this. And yes, if you use this, your a cheater and an unfair sportsman in my book. Everyone that uses this knows good and well that 95% (probably more than that) of the other hot lappers out there aren't going to have it.

Last edited by BigTime, Thu 17 Jul 2008, 00:52.

Quoted from youtube:

Nismo200000007:
ok for those whiners who talk about low fps, new version with high fps is gonna be uploaded soon....

My response:
No one would whine about it if you ever fixed the problem. You basically get the same suggestion every time, and that suggestion is that your frames per second suck.

I wouldn't say the video was all that bad, but the drifting it self was quite poor.

Quote from mp3 Astra :

this Is The Most Controversial Video Since Tgoc, It Appears...

TGOC? :d

Quote from LFSn00b :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN6WocqYBgI its only a song though :P

That's a different song... http://youtube.com/watch?v=onrzgB_-0sM

Quote from callmebob :

isnt it a bit late to jump on the rickroll bandwagon?

Apparently not, show me another LFS rick roll...

Quote from anbiddulph :

maybe A Proper Crash Test

+1

I don't see how running a XRR into a slower car is going to prove anything, or entertain anyone for that matter.

There was a few frame issues (mainly disappearing cars) here and there. Good video none the less!

Quote from dekojester :

It's nowhere near perfect. And it's just a very very very basic example. I'm sure there's a better way to do this. And It must wait until a later incompatible patch, perhaps even a feature for S2 final. I can wait for this.

Wow, I never would have dreamed changing the way you input laps would be such an issue. We are getting ready to run another auto x based oval so I'm sure we will run into the same problem. Once again, it's fixable on our part but really doesn't make sense to limit such a thing. Anyways, we hope this is something the dev's will keep in mind for the next new patch because in my eyes it is a fairly important fix.

Thanks for your input guys...

Best of luck mate. You better let us know as soon as you get back! :drink:

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

Core bigtime you cheapskate

Edit: It just occurred to me that I can't say that. LOL!

Last edited by BigTime, Fri 11 Jul 2008, 15:16.

Oh I was talking about the Ghost Car video...

Quote from BenjiMC :

Ok so what about points and rules? stuff like that?

Also am i right in saying the LRF is a different class to the FWD GTRs?

If these things are cleared up i might do it since bigtime is gonna do it

Well I'm kinda in the same boat you are there... Still really looking forward to an all city league.

Thanks for effort. That defiantly not my favorite movie (Ghost Car) I've ever made but thanks a lot!

Quote from BenjiMC :

Dude, is your Avatar even allowed on these forums?

If it isn't allowed it should be.

Dude I've been begging for a city league for a while... I'm in!

Quote from squad_e :

Mouse cursor at 1.11 ftw...

That could've been a really good vid, if it wasnt for the bad FPS.. I liked the twin drifting ...

Next time watch the FPS..

Yeah, FPS killed that one...