For what it's worth, David Kaemmer (co-founder of the now defunct Papyrus) has some interesting thoughts from an insider's perspective about some of the issues which are being discussed in this thread; namely, the market for simulations and non-simulation racing titles. Read them here: http://www.gamespot.com/features/6103365/p-8.html That is just one section from a much larger article about the history of Papyrus which is worth a read.
Here's what he has to say:
"... interest in simulations, a category somewhat different than most games, hasn't grown at the same rate as interest in games in general. Simulations are more difficult to market, since the fundamental enjoyment you get out of them is learning a difficult skill. People buying a toy--which is how people think of computer 'games'-- apparently don't expect or want to master a difficult skill. ...
The computer game business is really becoming a toy business, especially with the popularity of console gaming. That's not the right market for a simulation. ...
The real problem is that we're reaching the wrong customers. If Papyrus were to have dumbed down the experience in order to make a console game, they would have had no competitive advantage. There are a zillion driving 'games' out there and many of them look really nice since the console budgets allow for a lot of flash. But none of them are true driving simulators, despite what they say. They don't need to be. They are being sold by the licenses. ...
For auto racing simulations there has always been a disconnection between the experience as a participant, which is what we were providing, and the experience as a spectator, which is what has always been used to sell the game. Auto racing is far more exciting for the participant than for the spectator, but people who haven't participated in it don't realize that. They are more interested in the soap opera that is professional racing, in the personalities of the drivers, and the paint schemes on the cars. That's why we've always had to rely on big licenses: NASCAR, IndyCar, F1, Porsche, Ferrari, and so on. Unfortunately, those licenses are getting more and more costly, and now it is absolutely necessary to be making console games to be able to afford the licenses. ..."
The full article can be read here: http://www.gamespot.com/features/6103365/index.html
Here's what he has to say:
"... interest in simulations, a category somewhat different than most games, hasn't grown at the same rate as interest in games in general. Simulations are more difficult to market, since the fundamental enjoyment you get out of them is learning a difficult skill. People buying a toy--which is how people think of computer 'games'-- apparently don't expect or want to master a difficult skill. ...
The computer game business is really becoming a toy business, especially with the popularity of console gaming. That's not the right market for a simulation. ...
The real problem is that we're reaching the wrong customers. If Papyrus were to have dumbed down the experience in order to make a console game, they would have had no competitive advantage. There are a zillion driving 'games' out there and many of them look really nice since the console budgets allow for a lot of flash. But none of them are true driving simulators, despite what they say. They don't need to be. They are being sold by the licenses. ...
For auto racing simulations there has always been a disconnection between the experience as a participant, which is what we were providing, and the experience as a spectator, which is what has always been used to sell the game. Auto racing is far more exciting for the participant than for the spectator, but people who haven't participated in it don't realize that. They are more interested in the soap opera that is professional racing, in the personalities of the drivers, and the paint schemes on the cars. That's why we've always had to rely on big licenses: NASCAR, IndyCar, F1, Porsche, Ferrari, and so on. Unfortunately, those licenses are getting more and more costly, and now it is absolutely necessary to be making console games to be able to afford the licenses. ..."
The full article can be read here: http://www.gamespot.com/features/6103365/index.html
And then it turns out that she's vapid and shallow and always wants you to pay for everything and after a few unsatisfying tumbles you realise that she's not even good in bed. Before a week has passed you're making up excuses not to see her again. Not that she cares; she's already got a handful of other lads on the go. A couple of weeks later, it starts to hurt when you pee and you go to the doctor and it turns out she's given you a dose of gonnorhea, the slut. Prescription in hand, you head back to the club and notice the brilliant but only passingly attractive young lady sitting at the bar but pass her over once again as your eye catches sight of yet another gorgeous young thing in a low-cut dress and so the cycle begins anew.
Nice video. The high-contrast look that you get from filming the screen versus doing a direct video capture makes the scene look more realistic, I think. I might go back and start playing around with the contrast settings in my video card driver to see how it looks in-game.
You're probably already aware of this but you can save replays of your sessions to file and play them back whenever you want. This means that you don't have to worry about filming yourself in real-time as you can always go back and replay any interesting moments you want to capture on your video cam later.
Glad you're enjoying the game. Don't be shy, come online. That's where all the fun is!
You're probably already aware of this but you can save replays of your sessions to file and play them back whenever you want. This means that you don't have to worry about filming yourself in real-time as you can always go back and replay any interesting moments you want to capture on your video cam later.
Glad you're enjoying the game. Don't be shy, come online. That's where all the fun is!
I strongly disagree. LFS may not have the fancy shader effects, lighting and detailed modeling of, say, GTR2 but I genuinely prefer the look and feel of LFS to the over-rendered, everything-covered-in-plastic ISI engined games. The colour palette in LFS is just about spot-on, the 3D models actually look like they exist in the scene instead of being superimposed on top of it and the locations presented in LFS look more real to me in spite of being completely fictional than most of the real tracks portrayed in other games. I should add a caveat here that I play LFS with a FOV of around 40-50°, so I don't see much of the interior of the cars when I play. The car interiors are one area that do desperately need attention; it always makes me cringe when I see screenshots showing the inside of the cars.
It wouldn't surprise me. I imagine Intel would want to use the Australian GP track for the promo, which would rule out LFS unless Eric et al have been burning the midnight oil.
Is this related to that story about Sebastian Vettel participating in some sort of sim race in the lead-up to the Australian Grand Prix this weekend? I know there were some rumours that LFS was going to be used; has that changed?
True, but it seems that if anyone else joins the session, even if they start mid-session or leave before the session ends, that counts as a race and podium places are awarded. Looking at my race results, I see several races in which I was awarded first place yet I'm the only person listed. I would like to remove these results from my stats if possible since it shows that I have many more podium results than I really should have.
Any way to remove specific stats from LFSWorld?
Is there any way to remove specific race stats from my user profile at LFSWorld? The reason I ask is that many of my results have been on empty or near-empty servers, largely because I like to practice combos online so that I can use LFSWorld to track my laptimes. However, this means that I have many more 1st place finishes showing on LFSWorld that I ought to. I would like to remove those race results while at the same time keeping the laptimes which were set during those sessions, if possible. Is this doable and, if so, how?
Out here in western Canada, there are usually only a relatively small number of people online when I'm available. Whereas during peak playing times in Europe there may be 600+ licensed users online, in my timezone there are usually only around 40+.
So, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.
I wish I knew why LFS has a much higher percentage of users from Europe than from North America (and Asia, Australia, South America etc for that matter). Does anyone know if the relative numbers of users for other online racing sims is similar (i.e. mostly European players with a relatively small proportion from other regions) or is it peculiar to LFS?
So, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.
I wish I knew why LFS has a much higher percentage of users from Europe than from North America (and Asia, Australia, South America etc for that matter). Does anyone know if the relative numbers of users for other online racing sims is similar (i.e. mostly European players with a relatively small proportion from other regions) or is it peculiar to LFS?
Unfortunate but true.
If the true cost of using natural resources, including all externalities*, were passed along to the consumer, then market forces would compel both producers and consumers to move towards sources of energy that are both cheaper and, as a natural side-effect, more sustainable and more environmentally friendly. That's what's frustrating about this debate: when you try to convince people with reasoned argument, there's often a great deal of bickering based more on where people's beliefs fall in the ideological spectrum than on substantive facts; if instead you hit them in the wallet, suddenly everybody sits up and pays attention, producer and consumer alike. Pass along the true cost of resource use and market forces will solve the problem.
*an externality is a hidden cost that is not factored into a transaction e.g. the cost of cleaning up pollution produced by a manufacturing plant.
Last edited by BuddhaBing, .
That 73 Tyrrell is one sexy beast. It's probably my favourite F1 car of all time.
1. Using the Replays menu in the main screen.
2. Press '2' while in-game and you will be prompted to save a named replay.
3. http://www.fraps.com
2. Press '2' while in-game and you will be prompted to save a named replay.
3. http://www.fraps.com
Speaking of which, whatever happened with the Intel Racing Tour being held by Intel and BMW in Germany where there were a series of racing events using LFS and the grand prize winner took home a new BMW M6?
Hmm, well it's been clean every time I've been on. There's the occasional disaster at turn 1 which you expect with inexperienced racers and some bumping and swapping of paint which is to be expected when the racing is close but I have yet to see any overt wrecking, every once in a while there will be someone who doesn't appear to know what they're doing (probably first-timers) but everyone seems to be doing the best that they can and people have generally been good about giving those around them space, not charging madly into corners and barging through with their tyres smoking, not darting blindly back onto the racing line after an off and getting out of the way when they are being lapped by faster racers. To me, that's clean racing even if there are racing incidents.
Good choice, March Hare. If you like the UF1, be sure to check out the STCC 1b server. Lots of good, clean racing in the UF1 at a variety of the shorter club tracks.
Master Server Down @ 6:40AM GMT? [now back up]
Can't connect to the master server or LFSWorld right now. Other sites seem to be accessible without problem, including this forum. Is anyone else having problems connecting now?
Yes, thanks for the video link Highsider9. Very thought provoking. I've forwarded the link to several people I know will appreciate it too.
Well, I don't know about competitive. My best laptimes have been set with a clutch and manual shifting but I'm far from competitive. I was slow before and I'm only marginally less slow now and what little improvement I've seen may be due to becoming more familiar with the cars and tracks.
At this point, I'd guess that there's no significant advantage in terms of laptimes to using a clutch and manual shifting. That may change as the clutch and drivetrain modeling is improved though.
Using a clutch and shifter does enhance the sense of realism while playing the game though and they're worth having for that reason.
At this point, I'd guess that there's no significant advantage in terms of laptimes to using a clutch and manual shifting. That may change as the clutch and drivetrain modeling is improved though.
Using a clutch and shifter does enhance the sense of realism while playing the game though and they're worth having for that reason.
DFP + extra set of pedals for clutch here. I manual shift using the DFP's sequential shifter, have auto-clutch, auto-blip and other aids off and do heel-and-toe downshifting. Before I had the extra clutch pedal, I was left-foot braking and used the auto-clutch and auto-blip aids, though I was still manual shifting.
It took me several days to get used to using the clutch and several weeks to become proficient at heel-and-toe shifting. During that transitional adjustment phase my laptimes were noticeably slower than they had been. However, my enjoyment of the game greatly increased and with time and practice my laptimes improved. I still mess up the occasional shift but all of my current best laptimes have been set using the new setup.
It took me several days to get used to using the clutch and several weeks to become proficient at heel-and-toe shifting. During that transitional adjustment phase my laptimes were noticeably slower than they had been. However, my enjoyment of the game greatly increased and with time and practice my laptimes improved. I still mess up the occasional shift but all of my current best laptimes have been set using the new setup.
pdanev, some of those LFS posters on your site are, to use one of Jeremy Clarkson's favourite terms, astonishing!
While they are also a publisher, EA actually have three large development studios in Canada and a further dozen or more worldwide. The three studios in Canada are in Burnaby (EA's largest development studio located in a large campus just outside Vancouver), several floors of an office block in downtown Vancouver (which is where Need for Speed is developed) and in Montreal. The EA Canada development studios employ more than 1,000 people and are among the largest technology sector employers in Canada.
Give it a couple of years. Once you've got your license and have been around for a while, you'll start to get old and grumpy and doing the equivalent of yelling "get off my lawn you damn kids!" at some demo users too.
X Motor Racing Beta
Downloading the beta now from http://www.exotypos.com/downlo ... torracing.v0.806.beta.zip
Has anyone here given it a try yet? If so, what are your thoughts? From the little I have read about it (the most recent AutoSimSport has an article about it) it sounds promising.
I'll write up some initial impressions about it later tonight with any luck.
edit: initial impression: don't bother. I know that it's a beta and is therefore a bit rough around the edges but they're supposedly aiming for a summer 2007 release and, well, that seems optimistic* to me. At this point, I'd be embarassed to call it even a proof of concept and it's simply miles away from how it has been positioned in the AutoSimSport** article.
* by about 1-2 years
**Yeah, I know, I know, articles in AutoSimSport should be taken with a pinch of salt (perhaps a mountain would be more appropriate).
Has anyone here given it a try yet? If so, what are your thoughts? From the little I have read about it (the most recent AutoSimSport has an article about it) it sounds promising.
I'll write up some initial impressions about it later tonight with any luck.
edit: initial impression: don't bother. I know that it's a beta and is therefore a bit rough around the edges but they're supposedly aiming for a summer 2007 release and, well, that seems optimistic* to me. At this point, I'd be embarassed to call it even a proof of concept and it's simply miles away from how it has been positioned in the AutoSimSport** article.
* by about 1-2 years
**Yeah, I know, I know, articles in AutoSimSport should be taken with a pinch of salt (perhaps a mountain would be more appropriate).
Last edited by BuddhaBing, .
I've done a bit of poking around online and can't find anything to back up the claim that there is a "huge buzz" circulating around the internet about this allegation. Now admittedly, I've only done a cursory search but the few links that I've found point back to the original GWN article. Coupled with the shameless plug of their own review at the end of the article, I'm starting to wonder if this is just one gaming site spreading FUD about one of their competitors out of spite.
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