Quote from JJ72 :

hm....not really impressed.

maybe it's setup related, but this cars seems to have huge body control issues, it's way too soft and wobbily, when I trial brake it will initially generate some oversteer but then the weight swings backwards like a cruiseship and turn into some hopeless understeer. The understeer reminds me of GTL - where the grip just disappeared once it started to skid, I know the original simbin game has too good to be true grip values but this seems a bit too bad, for a BMW sport saloon.

And my top speed on the back straight of nurburgring is a patheic 230kph. I don't know if the gear ratio are base on the real thing, but second gear is too low to be used smoothly on most tracks I tested.

The real car is governor limited to a top speed of 155mph (250km/h). On a flat stretch of road, the mod will top out at around 250km/h as shown in the attached screenshot. The back straight at the Nordschleife rFactor track is a slightly uphill run which is why the mod is only able to achieve around 235km/h instead of its potential 250km/h max.

The gearing ratios used are accurate per the official BMW specifications. I compared the mod's acceleration profile on the skidpad to a test drive done by Car & Driver magazine and found the following:


As you can see, the profile is similar.

I have also compared on-board laps of the real car around Hockenheim to laps with the mod around the same track in rFactor. The lap times are similar, the amount of steering input and countersteering required in the corners is roughly comparable and the mod and the real car both wash out and produce tyre scrub and squeal in the same places.

Of course, handling and feel are subjective and I have tried to make the car feel solid with mass and inertia instead of simply feeling like it's floating above the road which is how most cars in rFactor feel to me. Clearly, that approach hasn't worked. Oh well. Thanks for your feedback.

Quote from Gabkicks :

i cant feel anything through the steering unless i hit a rumblestrip or go offroad. i am using a dfp and realfeel. i tried playing around with different realfeel settings... and still nothing. does the real car offer almost no steering feel as well? even when i have it set to heavy steering.

I haven't driven an E92 M3 but I have driven my brother-in-law's factory stock E46 M3 a handful of times and I have used that as a baseline for steering weight and feel.

JJ, a couple of things to try:

First, try reducing the RealFeel MaxForceAtSteeringRack setting for the car. This is done by editing the RealFeelPlugin.ini file in the main rFactor folder and finding the entry for the BMW_E92_M3_2008. The smaller the MaxForceAtSteeringRack setting, the stronger the force feedback will feel. Alternatively, you can use RealFeel's in-game HotKey controls to adjust the MaxForceAtSteeringRack value in real-time. While on the track, press Left Control+Numpad 7 to decrease the setting in 1000N increments, Left Control+Numpad 9 to increase in 1000N steps or Right Control+Numpad 7 to decrease/Right Control+Numpad 9 to increase in 100N steps.

Second, you can try adjusting the caster in the in-game garage. Increasing the caster will produce more self-aliging torque. The default caster I have used for the car is 7°8' which is accurate according to the official BMW specifications as shown in the following manual: http://www.e90fanatics.com/pdf ... Training--Information.pdf

Quote from seinfeld :

im disapointed with the patch

Now there's a surprise!

This is an update of the previous version which I released a couple of months ago. The birth of my daughter in early October has kept me busy since then and I have only recently been able to find some time to continue working on the car.

This update includes reworked tyres, aero and adjustments to the steering weight and feel. I'm more satisfied with the handling and feel of this version than previous releases.

This is a project that I have been doing for myself but I'm having fun throwing the car around the track and thought others might enjoy doing the same. If you want to try it, great. If you don't, oh well, no loss.

- Based on original content from Blimey! Games' recent BMW M3 Challenge.
- Conversion to rFactor by morning_wood.
- Complete physics rewrite using Kangaloosh! carFactory.
- Damage model by JTbo.
- RealFeel compatible.

44MB Zip archive. Installation instructions contained in readme.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YZUIFNU2

http://rapidshare.com/files/79 ... _M3_rFactor_v1.1.zip.html

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 3 Jan 2008, 08:15. Reason : Updated download links.

I'm having a difficult time with the clutch in the UFR at South City. I suspect this is because the bumpiness of the track causes the wheels to suddenly become unloaded which which puts stress on the drivetrain.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Hyperactive. I've been spending some time on the suspension and tyres and will have a look at the driveline next.

Quote from Fabri91 :

Sadly, not many of us can start something with those frequencies data, i'd suggest names like "track", "sport", "normal road" and so on ... I hope you understand, some sort of realistic mechanical tuning.

Yes, I agree that adding more descriptive names to the upgrade options would be helpful. However, I don't want to allow every possible setup parameter to be tweaked. These are road cars and the degree to which they can be tuned in real life - without a great deal of time, effort and money - is somewhat limited.

Quote from Hyperactive :

The M3 has now developed the same understeer tendency into the corners as the Niels' C6. ...
Maybe it is a rear diff issue? It says on the setup page in rf that the diff has 5000% of power and coast values plus 100% pump. Isn't that = solid rear axle or is it just the way rf shows those values when they are not editable?

The diff power and coast settings were an error in the HDC file. Thanks for spotting that.

I agree that the car has a tendency to understeer in corner entry and that this makes it less interesting to drive than it could be.

[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 27 Sep 2007, 00:55. Reason : removed out of date links

Quote from Fabri91 :

Thanks, now it is really good!

Great, glad to hear you got it working and please accept my apologies for the problems with the previous version. I look forward to hearing whatever feedback you'd like to offer now that it's up and running.

Quote from JTbo :

You can use that damage I posted earlier if you like, it is better starting point for visual damage than starting from scratch, about 2 million miles better, imo

Yeah, now that I can see mesh deformation visually in-game rather than just seeing the status of components change as they become damaged or fail, I can see that the damage settings I was using are terrible. Your settings are, as you say, about 2 million times better. Maybe more Do you mind if I integrate your damage settings into subsequent versions of the mod? Full credit will be given, of course.

Quote from ajp71 :

Is there any chance of a patch rather than a full download?

Sure thing. The following download links contain only the updated car files. Sounds, rFm, helmet and team/vehicle specific data are not included. The patch must be installed over an existing installation of the previous version. To install, just extract the contents of the zip and copy the GameData folder into your main rFactor folder. When prompted, let it overwrite the existing files.

[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 27 Sep 2007, 00:58.

I've just finished a revision of the E92 M3 mod for those interested. The new revision fixes a couple of errors in the previous version, improves the accuracy of the car's performance versus the Car & Driver road test and introduces some new features.

The errors which were fixed included a missing texture in the MAS file and a miscalculation in one of the tyre compound braking curves.

One of the major improvements is that the car now pulls 0.94g on a 300-ft diameter skidpad, matching the Car & Driver road test. The previous version could pull about 1.05g which meant that it was more sporty than it should have been.

Here's the chart showing performance relative to the Car & Driver stats for the new version.


The performance in each category is noticeably closer.

New features include a damage model; no visible body damage but each of the car's components can now be damaged or fail. It's quite fun watching the AI trail smoke or have their engine blow up and seize right in front of you.

I've also included a number of upgrade options including options for tyres, ride frequencies (from a comfortable 1.5Hz front, 1.65Hz rear perfect for a daily driver to a stiff 1.9Hz front, 2.05Hz rear) and roll centre heights (from 65mm front, 120mm rear down to 45mm front, 90mm rear). These options allow you to configure the car to be anything from a relatively sedate sports coupe suitable for use as a daily driver to a bit of a handful more suited to autocross or the track.

If you're interested, the new version can be downloaded from:
[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

As before, any feedback would be most welcome.

Have fun!

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 27 Sep 2007, 00:58. Reason : removed download links

Quote from Fabri91 :

I got EXCATLY the same error, so it isn't my PC.
Thanks for the tips how to delete the very first version.
I can't tweak the mas, dunno how to do it, could you please post yours?

I'm not saying it's your PC. I think it might only happen with specific graphics settings. For example, it might only happen if you are running Medium Shadows, Low Effects and Full Textures in DirectX8 mode or something like that. I wanted to know what graphics settings you use so that I could try to replicate the problem and spot any similar problems before distributing new versions.

Anyway, here's the fixed MAS: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=A3V8NZ1T

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Fri 21 Sep 2007, 19:16.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I got that error too, see pic for details. I managed to fix it by adding a "bmw_m3_body2_spec.dds" file into the mas with the isi tools...

Thanks. What are your in-game graphics settings and what settings do you use in your rFConfig video setup? I'm guessing that the missing file is only used for certain graphics settings.

Quote from Hyperactive :

As for the car it feels very light!

That has also been my impression of just about every car in rFactor. Increasing the moments of inertia by a factor of 1.5 makes the car feel much more weighty - and in my subjective opinion, more realistic, However, carFactory calculated MOIs which are reasonably close to those Blimey! used in M3 Challenge and around what I would expect based on the NHTSA's vehicle inertia database so I decided to stay with the carFactory calculated numbers. I may bump up the MOI values to give the car a more weighty feel though.

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Fri 21 Sep 2007, 17:54.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

What sort of cornering G force does it pull? If its 1.2+ it will have a fall over tendency indeed.. The C6 with the semi slicks (1.07G) can already be flipped if you hit a kerb in some (very) unlucky way..

The skidpad is a nice test track (see rfactor central) though you'd have to disable the bumps in the main terrain.tdf to make it flat and the readouts stable.

I suppose the M3 pulls some 0.95G perhaps? dunno really..

The Car & Driver road test I referenced above shows that the E92 M3 pulls 0.94g on a 300ft diameter skidpad. As I indicated in my previous post, when I did a similar test on the skidpad in rFactor, the M3 pulled just over 1.0g. I intend to continue tweaking to get this number closer to the real test results.

When I set the centre of gravity to the higher value, the car rolled over even when I was driving slowly and nowhere near pulling even 1g. It was just very unstable. You can see this yourself by editing the HDC file and plugging in whatever values you want.

Quote from Fabri91 :

Thx very much.
How can i remove the very first version of the car, named "BMW_M3"?

Delete the following:

GameData\Sounds\BMW_M3
GameData\Vehicles\BMW_M3
rFm\BMW_M3.rfm (if it exists)
rFm\BMW_M3.bik(if it exists)
rFm\BMW_M3.tga(if it exists)
UIData\BMW_M3_UIData

Quote from Fabri :

I should be able to provide lateral G, "auto" tested it against the hippo-ish S5.

That would be excellent!

Quote from Fabri :

EDIT: still have that error, only with the M3 E92:
Missing texture and material...couldn't make screenshot of the material missing error because it freezed...

Very strange. That texture is missing from the MAS file but I don't get that error message no matter what graphics settings I use. I wonder if it has to do with your graphics settings? Can you please show a screenshot of your in-game graphics settings and your rFConfig settings, as shown in the two screengrabs below:
http://i6.tinypic.com/682r583.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/5zbggzm.jpg

I'd really like to track down the root cause of this problem. In the meantime, the missing texture file is attached. Put it in the GameData\Vehicles\BMW_E92_M3_2008 folder.

Quote from JTbo :

Some quick damage for car. ... would need lot of testing and tuning to get it good ...

I'll say. Here's what it did to my driver.

http://i12.tinypic.com/6feqema.jpg

I guess his spine and neck vertebrae must have collapsed after going over one too many big bumps at the Nordschleife!

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Did you up the centre of gravity?

Nope, carFactory indicated a CGHeight=0.1852 and this is what I've used. This did look low to me so I tried plugging in a higher value - I think it was 0.29 or thereabouts - to see how it would respond. The car's behaviour with the higher CGHeight value was very strange. It rolled over at even the slightest nudge from another car or just brushing a kerb - funny but completely unrealistic - so I shrugged my shoulders, decided that carFactory must have generated that number for a reason and stayed with it.

Quote from JTbo :

...also springs look to be quite soft...

Spring and damper rates were generated by carFactory using ride frequencies of 1.5Hz in the front and 1.65Hz in the rear. These are reasonable ride frequency values for a sporty road car.

In fact, I haven't changed any of the values generated by carFactory apart from the mass and inertia of the wheel and spindles in the PM file. All of my post-carFactory tweaks have been to the tyres, the clutch and drivetrain, brakes, steering, bumpstop rates and things like toe-in, caster and other setup params.

I've just uploaded a new version of the M3 mod for rFactor. The new version includes fixes for some issues with the AI, a proper driver model in external view, a revised rFm and the folder structure has been streamlined and cleaned up. It should also resolve the missing texture problem that Fabri91 reported earlier. This new version of the mod also has renamed classes, categories, veh files and folder names to prevent clashes with other conversions of the M3 Challenge content into rFactor.

The newest version can be downloaded from:
[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].


If you downloaded the previous version of the mod yesterday, I recommend removing the older version before installing this one. To remove the old version, delete the following from your main rFactor folder:

GameData\Sounds\BMW_E92_M3
GameData\Vehicles\BMW_E92_M3
GameData\rFm (I put this folder in the wrong location when it was first released)
rFm\2008_BMW_E92_M3.rfm (if it exists)
rFm\2008_BMW_E92_M3.tga (if it exists)

If you have any comments or questions or want to provide feedback about the mod, post them here.

Have fun!

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 27 Sep 2007, 00:56. Reason : deleted out of date download links

Quote from JTbo :

How do you feel about carfactory made physics vs physics you made first manually?

They certainly feel believable to me and I hope others agree. Whether they're accurate, I can't say for certain. The car's performance in-game compares pretty well with real-world test data but that data is quite limited in scope. There's no hard data available to measure things like steering weight, ride comfort, tendency for the back-end to come around and so on which give a car its own character so I just read reviewer's impressions about how the car handles and tried to reproduce that behaviour in-game by tweaking.

Many of the parameters carFactory needs are fairly obscure and therefore hard to come by so a lot of them were arrived at by taking best guesses based on theory, examining comparable cars or by reverse-engineering Blimey's M3 physics files.

One thing that has become very clear is that the quality of the track and especially the track surface has an enormous impact on how the car feels. If you take two roughly similar tracks with the same type of corners, elevation changes etc, on one the car can feel completely dead and uninteresting and yet on the other it springs to life and is a pleasure to throw around. Testing the M3, I found that the following tracks have a nice driving feel:

Varano
OLDRing
Nordschleife 2007 (though some parts are quite bad)
VLM Le Mans (again, some parts are better than others)
Toban
Goldenport

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Fri 21 Sep 2007, 06:34.

Fabri, what are the names of the missing textures?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Have you driven it yet Budda? Thoughts?

Not really. Gave it a quick try to make sure that the download worked and that the mod installed into GTR2 properly but haven't had an opportunity to do more than a handful of laps in a couple of different cars. Initial impressions are a bit disappointing though.

Speaking of carFactory, I've completely rewritten the physics for the rFactor version of this mod using Kangaloosh's carFactory and as much real data as I have been able to glean from various sources. There was still quite a bit of guesswork and best estimates needed but the end result is pretty good I think.

To give you some idea of how the performance of the reworked mod stacks up against the real thing, here's how the numbers compare to the road test that Car & Driver did in their September 2007 issue.


[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

The download includes all of the required model, sound, physics and related files and also includes an rFm entry so adding the mod to rFactor is relatively straightforward. Installation instructions are included in the readme.

If you're looking for a new carFactory car, give this one a try. It works very nicely with RealFeel and throwing one of these things around the Nordschleife is a hoot.

Feedback, criticism and other comments welcome. I intend to keep on tweaking the performance of the car to more closely match the real thing. Any links to sources of technical information about the car would be appreciated.

Have fun!

Last edited by BuddhaBing, Thu 27 Sep 2007, 00:56. Reason : updated download links

The M3 produced by Blimey! used suspension geometry provided by BMW and the end result is terrible. Niels' C6 is generally considered to be the most accurate mod currently available for rFactor. Look at the C6's suspension geometry as defined in its PM file. It's not realistic at all. For comparison, here's the suspension geometry in Niels' mod compared to the real thing:
http://i3.tinypic.com/6az3812.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/65z4z13.jpg

Using real numbers will only work if the underlying physics engine is (a) complete and (b) accurate. ISI's isn't (nor is LFS's, nKP's, RBR's etc). This isn't a criticism leveled at ISI or other sim developers; it's not realistic to expect a consumer level entertainment product to have sufficiently high-fidelity kinematics and dynamics modeling that you can plug in a set of real numbers and get completely realistic behaviour.

Given that, there will always be a need to fudge the numbers to get a particular desired behaviour. The trick lies in identifying what the desired behaviour should be and then figuring out how to fudge the numbers to produce that result.

http://www.gtlw.co.uk/

Have been keeping my eye on this one for a couple of months. The cars in the most recent teaser video looked very, very good and who doesn't like cars from the 60s? Downloading now with fingers crossed that they've managed to work some minor miracles and actually get the GTR2 engine to do these cars justice.