Ok lets put this semantic argument to bed:

From the Oxford English Dictionary -


race

• noun 1 a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is fastest over a set course. 2 (the races) a series of races for horses or dogs, held at a fixed time on a set course. 3 a situation in which people compete to be first to achieve something.


So, unless it's timed or there is a time aspect to the competition it's not a race. It can be a sport, competition etc with 1st, 2nd places etc but unless the placing is time dependant it's not a race.

I post this purely to make a factual point. I know nothing about drifting and have no idea if it meets this criteria or not so this is not an anti-drifting post.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Surely it would only work if people knew that they had a knife though.

True, but I suspect many kids that carry often brag about it to give themselves cred.

Quote :

Probably best to install knife arches in more places.

True, which comes back to my point about being caught. IMO the real deterent to crime is the knowledge that there is a high likelyhood of being caught, (and that when you are you actually get punished in some way), that needs to be true before we'll see any significant drop in crimes.

Quote from Jakg :

It's not an ideal CPU, but I got the idea (from the CPU) he was broke...

If your not, an E8400 (or even a Q6600) would be a very VERY big upgrade.

I have a Dual Core 6600 and it runs LFS with plenty to spare, never really bothered to check FPS but a couple of times when I have it's always been over 100FPS. Anyway, I never have any stutter or anything, (GPU is a 8600GT 256MB).

Last edited by gezmoor, Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:45.

Interesting. I've not added a SATA drive as yet. So I'm assuming there is no need to set the drives to master and secondary etc like you do with IDE then?

Quote from obsolum :

Well, this is weird After having gone through a number of boxes I found my Vista DVD. So I plug in the drive again, boot up the computer keeping the DVD at the ready, and... Vista boots without problems

Anyway, I'm glad it's working again! I'm gonna copy my LFS folder to the other drive just to be safe

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

Most likely a dodgy connection in that case. These things can work loose over time or maybe get a bit corroded. Pluging/unplugging them a few times can sometimes clean the connectors and restore the connection.

Quote from nihil :

Not entirely true, since most sample based sound engines cross fade samples from a known rev range - this simply ignores all sorts of sonic nuances in favour of 'recognisability'.

By synthesising, you are not guessing. You are analysing a process and attempting to model it objectively, without presupposing what should be there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_modelling_synthesis

Fair point, but it's possible to multilayer sample sounds too which can vary the characterstics of the sampled sounds rather than a simple frequency shift type manipulation. Samples can just as easily be filtered and or augmented than synth sounds.

If you want to model car sound from scratch as aluded to in that article, then that is going to have the negative impact of requiring siginificant processing power just to reproduce the car sounds. Given that at the end of the day the only important requirement for sound in a racing sim are as you state the feedback relating to various car sound type rather than accuracy to any actual car is this processing over head realy required? wouldn't it be better used to get better handling/collision etc physics modelling. Samples based sound systems would surely be far less processor intensive than such a modelled system ?


Taking the example you quoted for instance. Early drum machines tried using synths and failed miserably. All drum machines now use high quality samples. But admittedly the scenario is different as there is no requirement to modify the samples, they just use a huge sample bank in order to reproduce the hundreds of differing sound that can be obtained from a single kit.

Last edited by gezmoor, Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:08.

well, as people have already said, it looks very much from the existing rubber that the Karts are low power. Looks very much like most people are double apexing it. Treating the last two corners as one wide turn with maximum corner speed.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

One thing which LFS (amongst other sims) is missing is the fact that cars sound a lot different depending on their orientation to you. If you ever hear a racing car drive past you, as they approach you head on most of the the sound is dominated by the whirring of the gearbox, then as it passes, its mostly noise directly from the engine, then once it's past, the sound is mostly from the exhaust, all three sounding very different.

Very true and a perfect example of why multiple samples are required in a samples based system.

Quote from Woz :

For me its a matter of depth. Samples give more instant wow factor but can never give the detail of a synth based system. I love the way you can hear the engine bog down when you bodge using the clutch and also hear the engine try to spin up and rev match if you fail to do it yourself

But those things are just a matter of gaining the correct samples. A samples based system does not have to rely on a single sample for all occasions. Various engine scenarios can be reproduced using various samples. That's why simple rpm inputs are not nearly enough as inputs for sample modification.

Engine sounds, are extremely complex. The problem with synthesising is that you are never going to accurately recreate a real engine sound through hit and miss manipulation. The only way to do it accurately through synthing would be to do an spectrum analysis of the sound of an engine and then use the synth to recreate that exact audio spectrum. What's the point? when that's exactly what a sample is doing anyway?

I think what people maybe don't understand is that there is absolutely no difference between the ability to manipulate sampled and synthesised sounds. The sole difference is the waveform you start with. With synthing you have to create the original "car sound" waveform before you can manipulate it to model the differing scenarios. With samples that whole first stage is done for you, all you have to do is pick the correct sample and then manipulate it. The advantage is that you are starting off with a realistic sound in the first instance, where as with synthing you're just guessing.

Quote from duke_toaster :

B sounds a bit sensible, but A and C are not permitted under international law.

Well, they're more vents of frustration than real suggestions Though, the more I think about B the more I think in some form it would be a good idea. Kids, especially teens, are very sensitive to peer pressure and I think ultimately it's through peer pressure that this issue has any chance of being resolved. However, I do feel you need to use stick as well as carrot. It's not enough just to talk about educating, not least because education alone will take too long to solve the issue. Those that are already of that mindset are highly unlikely to change their behaviour through education attempts, the young however are much more likely not to start that kind of behaviour if educated well in the first instance. So it will take decades for education alone to work, which is no good for the victim that gets stabbed today or tommorrow.

A quick comment on deterents in general. I don't believe, (and the evidence conclusively proves) that severe penalties work as a deterent. Why you ask? simple, the vast majority of people about to engage in a crime, (especially violent), don't take the time to stop and think about the consequences of being caught. Even if they did, they don't believe they are going to get caught anyway. That said, I strongly disagree with "letting off" for those that are caught.

Think of this scenario. You're in your car and you need to park somewhere. Problem is everywhere around is controlled parking and you risk a £100 fine and potentially getting your car towed. What do you do? What goes through your mind? If you're anything like me, (and I suspect most are), you think. What are the chances of a warden coming by in the next X minutes? Can I risk it? In other words you assess the risk of being caught, if you think you wont be caught then the whole issue of the penalty doesn't even factor in to it.

Think of this hypothetical scenario:

You need to travel to work by car every day. At work there are two parking bays, bay A and bay B. You're not allowed to park in either at the times you want to park and you have no other parking alternatives:

Parking bay A: Fine of £100 for illegal parking but a 1 in a 100 chance of getting ticketed.

Parking bay B: Fine of £5 for illegal parking, but a chip in your car and sensors in the bay mean you will get ticketed 100% of the time.

Which will you choose to park in each day?

Quote from Technique :

After playing iRacing for a couple of weeks I'm convinced that sample based sound systems can definitely sound good even if synthesized sounds are ideally what all sims should pursue. Could this possibly be a good community based project?

Discuss.

Having some background interest in audio, (both as a recreational drummer and hi-fi buff), I don't actually agree that sythesized sounds are the way to go for a realistic driving sim. Samples are by far much higher quality and truer to original than any synth sound will be, and as you have found out already can be manipulated quite readily. The only issues are obtaining the correct samples in the first instance and then applying the correct manipulation.

On the point of not being able to record a car in 6th gear under load, there is no need. The engine has no idea what gear you're in, it will sound the same under load in 1st gear as it would in 6th gear for the same "load" percieved. However just using rpm as the control for producing engine sounds is never going to be completely accurate. You need to factor in throttle too as an engine often sounds completely different on the overrun than under load and neutral throttle positions.

Quote from Jakg :

Perhaps the fact that theres MASSIVE problems in Sao Paulo (esp. in the Favelas) CAUSED the police's attitudes?

Oh yes, it's almost entirely down to that, (I know only too well as my brother-in-law is a Policeman in Sao Paulo), however it has led to the police being as bad as the criminals in a lot of cases, (although admittedly they are begining to get themselves in line). The point was however that the method's used didn't work in lowering the rate of violent crime on the streets - it just resulted in open warfare between police and criminals with the loss of many completely innocent lives.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for- ... ice-torture-reporters-200

If in doubt about how harsh Prisons in Brazil are :

http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prison-brazil.html

Quote from STROBE :

Sounds brutal? I guess so. But let's face it, the velvet gloves "ooh don't touch them, those poor deprived angels" approach is hardly working.

Problem is neither does your approach work. Take a long hard look at the way the Brazilian police act, (pretty much along the lines of what you suggest), and then look at the difference in the level of violent crimes between London and Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro

Just to put it all in to perspective. The murder rate in Sao Paulo is 55x higher than in London. That's not total murders it's per head of population !.

Think about it....

Problem with Prison sentences for carrying knives is two fold as I see it

a) They're likely to learn even more bad things to get involved in and how not to get caught doing it..

b) The kind of people that (predominantly) carry knives will just see it as a badge of honor anyway so it's no deterrent.


I have to admit my desparation and frustration at the whole issue leads me to thoughts along the lines of....


a) Replace prison terms with a tour of duty in somewhere like Iraq or Afganistan for anyone caught carrying an knife. The threat of real death, (in circumstances where they feel disempowered - knife carrying is significantly about being "the man" on the streets), might just create enough fear to discourage it.

b) Punish those caught with the person who actually has the knife (say 3-6 months inside), might just start a wave of peer pressure as a significant number of people will not want to "go down" for something their "mate" has done.

c) Stop wasting public money on putting people who stab/shoot/kill commit any kind of violent act against another person in prison. The French had the right idea. Find a deserted island surrounded by shark infested waters and dump them there and let them get on with it. If they want to live by the rules of the jungle let them, but deny them the right to do it here.

Saying those things doesn't make me feel comfortable but I'm getting older and more reactionary each year.

Belgium huh? Make sure you check out Brugge. Worth it just for the Waffles I rekon ! I know you said French part but Belgium is small - a day trip to Brugge is no problem. -

damn just noticed the dates ! - Sounds like you had a good time .. nice

Last edited by gezmoor, Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:27.

Great immersive on-line racing - pure and simple.

Nothing more needs to be said I feel.

Quote from keiran :

I wouldn't class his race in Turkey GP2 great, sure the come back was impressive but he only managed to get 2nd because he drove across oncoming traffic (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xjotF2Bwbmg)... He forced other drivers to slow significantly and avoid him while he tried to spin his car around. Again one of his `panic` moments we are seeing when things don't go his way. Had he waited till the pack past like he should have then chances are he wouldn't have made the podium.

Ouch.. I've never seen that before. That was just plain dangerous if you ask me.

Quote from wark :

Not to be disrespectful, but you're not doing "them" much of a tribute if you don't explain who they are or how they died.

The only moment we'll be taking is to find out what you're talking about.

Maybe even list their names—there are only 52...

Well as I said in my second post, I don't expect the event to be relevant to everyone. Those that were affected will know what I'm refering to and that was my sole intention with the post. Also, the thread wasn't intended as an actual tribute to those that died but a rememberance of the event and the way it affected the reader as an individual. A moment of personal reflection. Not everyone will react to the event in the same way, and it's not my place to dictate the way in which they do, which is why I deliberately chose not to make it a list of names.

As I also stated in my second post, the numbers aren't the issue.

Quote from Batterypark :

Sickening? I'll take that as a compliment, thank you very much. To be honest, I just asked because I didn't know.

In which case I appologise for misconstueing your post.

Quote from Batterypark :

Huh? If I recall correctly, over 150000 people die each day. What are you talking about?

If that's a weak attempt at making the point about human suffering it's serverely misplaced on this thread, if it's an attempt to diminish the deaths of the people this thread is about it's sickening.

1 innocent death is 1 death too many, for any reason.

I don't expect everyone here to understand or care about the significance of the deaths of these people, but I'd respectfully request that unless you have something sympathetic to say just don't bother posting. Thanks.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

......
....... it is 4 x 32, which means 4x zoom and a 32º FOV.

.....

Actually the 32 is the diameter of the object lens in mm.

I'd just like to take a moment to remind everyone to take a moment to think about the 52 innocent lives that were lost on July 7th 2005.

R.I.P

Taking the time to actually vote - finaly !

I voted for Barrichello. He will probably always be my favorite F1 driver (the vote did say favorite not best), and as far as I can tell he is probably most other F1 drivers favorite driver too. He always comes across as a nice guy and all the comments I've ever heard about him from anyone in F1 have said the same thing. He is respected by just about everyone in F1 as a fair driver too. Sure he was never WDC but I still believe he was one of the better drivers in F1. Anyone that can out drive an on form Schumacher on occasion has to be better than average IMO.

Quote from sam93 :

.......but he has worked bloody hard to get where he is today, he comes from a poor background ..........

hmm.. well "poor" and "worked hard" are relative terms. For me it's patently clear from his accent that neither he nor his father are from a "poor background" as I would use the term to describe someone.

Clearly the School he went too is very reprasentative of a working class inner city school full of disadvantaged kids

http://www.johnhenrynewman.herts.sch.uk/about/about.htm

As for worked hard, well I'm sure he did as an individual in terms of racing, but as an early interview with his father shows, they didn't struggle for cash to fund his racing....

http://www.silverstonemagazine.co.uk/pdf/svn2_onetowatch.pdf

Looks like a very poor neighbourhood he's from too...

http://www.itnsource.com/templ ... px?flashMovieStartIndex=1

http://www.itnsource.com/templ ... px?flashMovieStartIndex=2

Quote from sam93 :

Superb drive from LH, people ask what makes him special well I think that nearly answers it, all the anti-fans of him who think there is nothing special I think you will need to take that drive into account.

why? What does being a rain specialist prove? So are Button and Barichello, (and a few other drivers in the field), anyone ever compare them with Senna?

Sure I'll take that drive in to account. But I reserve the right to take all his other drives in to account when forming an opinion of his "talent". Only picking and choosing the "best bits" as evidence of "special" talent is the defacto definition of bias.


As for massa it is patently clear that there was a problem with his car. People making accusations of him not having throttle control obviously choose to blinker their ears to the commentary during the race, (coming from far more talented and experienced drivers than anyone on this forum !), pointing out that he hardly touched the throttle and the car was stepping out on him.