A small illustration of what so enrages Palestinians ...
I imagine anyone who belonged to the green bits would want to know why the hell Israel's been allowed to get away with this blatant, illegal & immoral annexation, occupation and disposession for nearly 50 years. How can this be justified? Someone please, take up a devil's advocate position and tell me how anything illustrated above - especially since 1967 - is even remotely fair.
I imagine anyone who belonged to the green bits would want to know why the hell Israel's been allowed to get away with this blatant, illegal & immoral annexation, occupation and disposession for nearly 50 years. How can this be justified? Someone please, take up a devil's advocate position and tell me how anything illustrated above - especially since 1967 - is even remotely fair.
Pfft. No giant squid would turn on its benevolent master. Unless it wanted to be turned into hula-hoop sized calamari.
Australia's one massive island and there are plenty of nutters doing plenty of insane crap here. Ivan Milat ring a bell? It should - they based Wolf Creek on that nutsack and they didn't have to change all that much.
/bans TC for spawn stalking
Plenty of time to defend your non-shifting though 
In 1994 we had a bomb threat & evacuation at my college in Adelaide. Freaked everyone out a bit because the week before, some nutter had sent a mail-bomb to an officer at the National Crime Authority building two blocks away, which detonated and killed the guy instantly.
Yeah, just without the bitchy comments and retarded arguments & shit.
Oh, wait ...
Don't pretend it wasn't you atlantian.
I'd like to see Asimov's three laws of robotics apply to the AI.
I automatically thought of Steve McQueens Le Mans from 1970, but that aint it...then I thought of the upcoming Speed Racer movie ... and I don't think that's it either 
Britain's imperial mandate (occupation?) over Palestine created the conditions which led to the UN Resolution which partitioned Palestine in 1947. Prior to that, Jewish independence groups like the militant Irgun (led by Menachem Begin, future Israeli PM) & British forces had clashed repeatedly, so it wasn't like Britain and pro-Israel groups were friendly. Tensions came to a head in 1946 when Irgun members, disguised as Arabs, bombed the King David Hotel ,which was being used as a British HQ, killing over 90 people, mostly civilians. This bombing was a key factor in Britain's decision to give up its presence in Palestine. Palestine was divided in 1947 and Israeli independence was declared in 1948, supported by the US and USSR and opposed by Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others. To say Britain "created" Israel is somewhat simplistic, given those facts. The US certainly didn't create Israel all by itself but was an immediate supporter and since 1948 has been its most fervent and unwavering ally, giving to Israel almost a third of its entire international aid budget, arming it with everything from tanks & attack helicopters to nuclear weapons & vetoing any & all UN resolutions that (among other things) demand Israel follow the rule of law with regard to territorial expansion in Palestine.
The King David bombing also shows that, historically & even presently, hardline pro-Israel groups have never been averse to "collateral damage" (i.e. the deaths of innocents) in their quest for independence. Until the 80s, that was the deadliest terrorist attack on record anywhere in the world.
The King David bombing also shows that, historically & even presently, hardline pro-Israel groups have never been averse to "collateral damage" (i.e. the deaths of innocents) in their quest for independence. Until the 80s, that was the deadliest terrorist attack on record anywhere in the world.
Last edited by Hankstar, .
Lizard, I don't know that you're intentionally deceptive (I'm not psychic after all) but, even giving you the benefit of the doubt, I do think you could work a bit harder to make yourself understood. All this confusion & bollocking over your recent posts could have easily been avoided if you'd expressed yourself clearly from the start. Then the discussions in these threads could have been about the various issues you raised and not all about you and your conduct on the forum 
I think the first two are equally important, moreso than damage at this stage. So, how about throwing us a track or two while those things get tweaked? 
You're sailing dangerously close to a lawsuit.
I know that much about you Lizard :up: I was responding to your comment about Hezbollah's motives and public pronouncements but I was speaking more or less to everyone. Everyone needs to know that there are two sides to this conflict and both sides share responsibility - it's not just poor persecuted Israel fighting off the vicious Arab hordes with nothing but a sling & some rocks. Funny (but not amusing) how the guys with all the guns, cash, US support and nukes (ffs!) consistently complain about being picked on.
Plenty of Israeli leaders throughout history have made some very inflammatory comments about Palestinians, but it seems people only remember the ones made about jews and Israel.
For some perspective:
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- first Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, 1937
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." (italics mine)
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- PM Golda Meir, 1969
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- PM Menachem Begin, 1982
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- PM Yitzhak Shamir, 1988
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Israeli PM Ehud Barak, 2000
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- PM Ariel Sharon, 2001
Just some of the racist attitudes and double-standards on display in Israel, not from radical Zionists or hard-right Jewish splinter groups but from the very leaders of Israel, from before Israel's existence to the recent past. Certainly, violent militants like Hezbollah need to be brought to account for their words and deeds, but when hateful words like these come from the leaders of Israel and are ignored it's little wonder people under their control get desperate and furious. I see nothing in the above quotes that sets their authors apart from any common anti-Semite or Hamas/Hezbollah militant (apart from the subject matter, obviously). In this case, hatred isn't a river flowing out of the Arab world. It runs in both directions and if Israel wishes to paint others as hateful and bigoted and dedicated to its destruction, it should check its reflection first.
Source.
For some perspective:
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- first Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, 1937
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." (italics mine)
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- PM Golda Meir, 1969
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- PM Menachem Begin, 1982
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- PM Yitzhak Shamir, 1988
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Israeli PM Ehud Barak, 2000
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- PM Ariel Sharon, 2001
Just some of the racist attitudes and double-standards on display in Israel, not from radical Zionists or hard-right Jewish splinter groups but from the very leaders of Israel, from before Israel's existence to the recent past. Certainly, violent militants like Hezbollah need to be brought to account for their words and deeds, but when hateful words like these come from the leaders of Israel and are ignored it's little wonder people under their control get desperate and furious. I see nothing in the above quotes that sets their authors apart from any common anti-Semite or Hamas/Hezbollah militant (apart from the subject matter, obviously). In this case, hatred isn't a river flowing out of the Arab world. It runs in both directions and if Israel wishes to paint others as hateful and bigoted and dedicated to its destruction, it should check its reflection first.
Source.
I didn't think you'd agree with the sentiment of the article you posted Lizard, but it sure does nothing to support that pernicious 'liberal media' myth.
I found the statement about Hezbollah being funded by Syria & Iran (and the implication that it's a Very Bad Thing in and of itself) interesting. While it's true that Hezbollah receives funds from those nations, noone ever seems to apply the same focus on Israel's relationship with the US. Their troops, continually engaged in assaults, incursions and other obscenities against Palestinian sovereignty & dignity (and occasionally against Lebanon, most recently with their blitzkrieg in 2006) are supplied and equipped by a foreign country - indeed, Israel's entire economy & military is propped up by the US and has been for decades. Why is that not considered an equally bad thing, considering Israel's woeful record when it comes to the number civilian casualties it's inflicted, the vast number of homes destroyed, the large amount of Palestinian land it's annexed, the number of UN resolutions it's flatly ignored? Is it okay because they wear uniforms while they do it? I know Hezbollah have much to answer for on that score themselves, but I long for the day when mainstream media outlets ask the same questions of, and level the same accusations at, US allies like Israel as they do when it comes to groups like Hezbollah and whichever nations are the designated enemies at the time.
I found the statement about Hezbollah being funded by Syria & Iran (and the implication that it's a Very Bad Thing in and of itself) interesting. While it's true that Hezbollah receives funds from those nations, noone ever seems to apply the same focus on Israel's relationship with the US. Their troops, continually engaged in assaults, incursions and other obscenities against Palestinian sovereignty & dignity (and occasionally against Lebanon, most recently with their blitzkrieg in 2006) are supplied and equipped by a foreign country - indeed, Israel's entire economy & military is propped up by the US and has been for decades. Why is that not considered an equally bad thing, considering Israel's woeful record when it comes to the number civilian casualties it's inflicted, the vast number of homes destroyed, the large amount of Palestinian land it's annexed, the number of UN resolutions it's flatly ignored? Is it okay because they wear uniforms while they do it? I know Hezbollah have much to answer for on that score themselves, but I long for the day when mainstream media outlets ask the same questions of, and level the same accusations at, US allies like Israel as they do when it comes to groups like Hezbollah and whichever nations are the designated enemies at the time.
That's so two days ago.
But so ****ng funny
But so ****ng funny
Nice one Samwise, I hadn't seen that before :up:
Fox Noise (Faux News?) - great impartial source you have there :up: Even comes complete with quotes from infamous pro-torture, rent-a-quote, "Israel uber alles" chickenhawk Alan Dershowitz, throwing the old "America-hater" label around. Credibility factor: zero. Dershowitz has a long history of being a reactionary stooge & paid talking-head for Washington, AIPAC and Israel. As far as he's concerned Israel and the US can literally do what they like to "stop terror" with impunity, regardless of International Law, human rights or anything considered decent, fair or legal by most human beings.
This must be a story by that alleged liberal media I've heard so much about. FOX = fail.
Last edited by Hankstar, .
Well, I meant to say "mostly" civil
I've no real opinion toward furriness, one way or the other. I'm one of those "whatever you do is fine as long as noone gets hurt - unless they want to get hurt" kind of people that infuriate the shit out of conservatives, so you'll find no beef here. However - and I don't condone any sort of bigotry or prejudice here - noone asked you to reveal it and not everyone's as open minded as, say, well, me, as has been proven right here. It's not like you mentioned it in passing either, you started a thread about it on a forum which is about as far removed from a furry community as you can get. I'm not going to say "shut up about it", just realise that people aren't understanding about non-mainstream pasttimes everywhere you go, especially on the good ol' anonymous internets where men are men, boys are 15-yr old Japanese girls, insults are many and consequences are few. Hell, I wouldn't even mention my stamp collection at this place That being said, if people choose to concentrate on your hobbies in an effort to discredit or score points off you instead of attacking the substance of your arguments, as far as I'm concerned they've done more harm to themselves and their own credibility. As my coach used to say: attack the ball, not the man.
I probably would've continued arguing in this thread had it not turned so frickin ugly overnight. Once people hit caps lock & start trolling and hurling insults around I tend to leave the room, grab a drink and organise my stamps. Got a great one from Yemen with Sir Jack Brabham on it, unused & mint condition, gotta see if there are any more in the series on ebay ...
What's obvious is that any troll who bursts into a mostly civil disagreement, shouts "idiot" at people in bold type and then screams accusations of "hypocracy" at others should probably, at the very least, learn to spell "hypocrisy" correctly. It would be hypocritical, perhaps even idiotic, to do otherwise.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG