In F1 it's AFAIK only because of heat that they back off.
They can't drive very very very close to a car in front because the FRONT washes out because of dirty air. What they loose it FRONT downforce and therefore aero balance. Not all sorts of downforce front and rear whatsoever.
Also it might be good to note that the air density is lower when air is at higher temperature and therefore if I'm not mistaken, if you follow a hot car with a car powered with an internal combustion engine, you will most definitely loose power, which is why clean air is better.
They can't drive very very very close to a car in front because the FRONT washes out because of dirty air. What they loose it FRONT downforce and therefore aero balance. Not all sorts of downforce front and rear whatsoever.
Also it might be good to note that the air density is lower when air is at higher temperature and therefore if I'm not mistaken, if you follow a hot car with a car powered with an internal combustion engine, you will most definitely loose power, which is why clean air is better.
The LX6 definitely is my favorite car. It's such a blast to drive a good lap with it! I really like the feel of it and the precision of how you can point its nose where you want. Plus it's got no turbo shit. It's just a matter of understanding how to push those cars, but once you do, they're really awesome.
I'll have to disagree with that one Tweak. It can be a form of g-force gauge
Somehow when I picture a fuzzy dice in my mind it's always pink
I'd want mine white.For my own suggestion I'll add:
- Overly resource consuming physics engine
- Boats
- Fanboys
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Yeah ok but if we consider that statement from the devs from before S1 (which I did remember, yes (but apparently am the only one appart from you)), it makes us consider both S1 and S2 as separately complete products. In this case, both products are cheaper than other games available on the market today, so if I take into account that statement from Scawen (he was the one who originally posted it), I have indeed to agree that S2 does cost less than other games.
However, if we take that into account, we must also state that S2, in many respects is not up to par with current industry quality standards. The sounds are one thing, but also the wheels of many cars don't look ok. It's mostly details, nothing that makes it unplayable as Victor said it's not like "omg this sucks" but it could easily be better.
Heck I'd model new wheels for all cars, with bolts and all, taking into account a max polycount budget they give me, texture them and GIVE THEM FOR FREE because I like LFS and I like modeling, BUT THE DEVS DON'T WANT MY HELP!! I'd also give them racecar seats models or stuff like that if they wanted, just like Kid made the skies, and I believe I've already told them I'm willing to help, but they don't want it, so I'm just left with complaining about such things until they get updated in a couple years.
Edit: oh and no I won't form any union with him. He's got valid points in terms that LFS can be improved and I indeed don't like fanboys, but I don't like them because they always say everything is marvelous and therefore are not constructive. Delerue isn't constructive either in his criticism, just the other way around. Fanboys say LFS is marvelous and everything is perfect, Delerue says LFS sucks and everything is crap; neither are constructive and will make LFS better by any means.
As I said I'm here for a while, I just want LFS to be best and I don't believe telling the devs what they do is perfect will make that happen.
However, if we take that into account, we must also state that S2, in many respects is not up to par with current industry quality standards. The sounds are one thing, but also the wheels of many cars don't look ok. It's mostly details, nothing that makes it unplayable as Victor said it's not like "omg this sucks" but it could easily be better.
Heck I'd model new wheels for all cars, with bolts and all, taking into account a max polycount budget they give me, texture them and GIVE THEM FOR FREE because I like LFS and I like modeling, BUT THE DEVS DON'T WANT MY HELP!! I'd also give them racecar seats models or stuff like that if they wanted, just like Kid made the skies, and I believe I've already told them I'm willing to help, but they don't want it, so I'm just left with complaining about such things until they get updated in a couple years.
Edit: oh and no I won't form any union with him. He's got valid points in terms that LFS can be improved and I indeed don't like fanboys, but I don't like them because they always say everything is marvelous and therefore are not constructive. Delerue isn't constructive either in his criticism, just the other way around. Fanboys say LFS is marvelous and everything is perfect, Delerue says LFS sucks and everything is crap; neither are constructive and will make LFS better by any means.
As I said I'm here for a while, I just want LFS to be best and I don't believe telling the devs what they do is perfect will make that happen.
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Hmm..... I've waiting for my own personnal **** reply......considering I've driven 47 500 km in LFS so far you can't really tell me to go back to my GTR (which I've only ever played the demo of).
That's like the old reply of "how many games do you enjoy as much as LFS??"
That's really a fanboyish arguement. What if LFS is not my way of life and I do not enjoy it more than any other game or sim? What if I don't spend more than 2 or 3 hours a week at most playing LFS (just the time for some races in the weekend)? You can't use that arguement. Here in Canada, LFS costs 83% of a full game for a 66% finished product: FACT.
And you can't ask me how many games will be as complete as LFS WILL BE when it reaches S3 because you don't know. There are titles like NetKar Pro and First Racing (maybe even GP Lengends if a miracle happens) that might get released in the meantime, and then you don't know what will happen with LFS. I personally have absolutely no faith at all in the sounds in LFS getting any improvement at all because I don't remember any reply of the devs saying there will be work on it. What I do remember tho is that a poll on RSC showed that like 50% of those who voted thought the sounds needed work, and when 50% of your userbase think something is wrong with your product, as a business you're supposed to consider the problem very seriously and move it at the top of your to-do list. Not respond to the fanboys demands. The fanboys will say what is released is awesome anyways, no matter what is done. You don't need to gain those customers they are already hooked and don't plan to move. What you want is to get more customers, so on that note, the language patches were a good move.
Then I will agree you can ignore the complaints of some (like Delerue) about the Force Feedback. That's just a matter of how things are simulated and there are no "effects" in LFS. Decision taken. BUT, the sounds need improvement ASAP and not in a future patch somewhere eventually. It is THE weakest point of LFS IMO and I know I'm not alone thinking this. Noone asks to scrap what's been done and go with samples, but dammit, add gearshift sounds, differential sounds, brake hiss, backfire and ambient sounds! It's important for the immersion feeling of LFS. When that's done there will never be other complaints or bad reviews about sounds.
Just a little point here for some people:
In the UK and some other places, LFS costs 2/3rd of a full game for an (almost) 2/3rd developped game. What many of you reply to Delerue is that previous line. Has it EVER come to your mind (those who reply the "game is cheaper" argument) that somewhere else in the world, with the exchange rates, the 2/3rd completed game might cost 100% or 75% of a full game? That's 3/3 or 3/4, not 2/3.
Here in Canada for example, right now as we speak, 24GBP is 49.56CAD. So let's agree for 50$. I see here brand new games on shelves for 60$.
Do the math: 50/60=83%.
LFS is in version 0.5 and S2 final (what you pay with 24GBP) will be 66% developped. Not 83%. So here in Canada, LFS IS MORE EXPENSIVE.
So stop saying the arguement it's not: IT IS, depending where you live.
In the UK and some other places, LFS costs 2/3rd of a full game for an (almost) 2/3rd developped game. What many of you reply to Delerue is that previous line. Has it EVER come to your mind (those who reply the "game is cheaper" argument) that somewhere else in the world, with the exchange rates, the 2/3rd completed game might cost 100% or 75% of a full game? That's 3/3 or 3/4, not 2/3.
Here in Canada for example, right now as we speak, 24GBP is 49.56CAD. So let's agree for 50$. I see here brand new games on shelves for 60$.
Do the math: 50/60=83%.
LFS is in version 0.5 and S2 final (what you pay with 24GBP) will be 66% developped. Not 83%. So here in Canada, LFS IS MORE EXPENSIVE.
So stop saying the arguement it's not: IT IS, depending where you live.
Ah then maybe a good suggestion would be to have a feature to copy skin to game skin folder in the viewer? Just have to add an option to target folder so the viewer knows where to copy, then it stores that in the settings and you just click "copy to game folder" and voilà, your skin is ingame!
Don't reply to my posts directly Vykos. I'm playing LFS since 0.1a I believe (might be b) so I kinda know what to expect from the devs you see. The reason I post things like saying I find Eric is slow is because it is how I honestly feel. I'm probably a bit more cold-headed/less fanboy than most people here because I can see things in a way out. Call that a pessimistic view if you wish. I don't have too much free time so therefore don't play too much LFS either. It's not my way of life, I have other things to do, but sometimes I feel like posting here.
I am one of the few who think the devs don't need to be protected by an elitist community. They need CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM to move forward, not ass licking being told everything they do is always the best ever and everything is marvellous in a wonderful world. They don't need to be protected by anyone. Just like a racecar driver that is criticised can respond by a strong performance on track, the LFS devs can respond to bad critics (i.e. not constructive) by making improvements to their product (because that's what LFS is: a commercial product).
Now as everyone in this thread just seem to keep saying things we already know (like LFS is a constant WIP), I'll point out something you might not have noticed (or at least I've not seen posted yet) that is meant to be constructive, not flamed:
I believe (that's how you start constructive criticism sentences) the suspension modeling, at least 3D (visual) on the Formula cars is wrong in LFS AT THE MOMENT (don't tell me it's WIP I know it, I'm just pointing it out to see what others, and devs think). I say that because I don't see any steering arms on the front suspensions and on the formula cars I've seen or modeled so far, the rear suspensions (at least the top wishbones) look like this: /\| whereas in LFS there is only /\.
I have also noticed that the brake discs don't rotate with the wheels and the calipers on the LX6 on front are not affected by wheel position (in terms of dynamic camber when wheels are steered).
That's very optimistic. I'd say the same but I don't consider one year to be "near future".
Ah thanks! Finally a useful reply to my post. Glad to learn that. That explains a bit better. Makes sense too.
For the record, that wheel is 1502 polys. Not "high poly", still suitable for a game engine but certainly higher than the 406 polys of the FOX steering wheel of course.
@bbman: a track isn't "hard" to do. It's a loft. What's hard is the terrain and objects around it. Getting a realistic feel of it. Eric does a great job at that. It's the cars that I'd like to see improved if you didn't notice in my posts that I'm pretty much only talking about cars. On the other hand, once the track is modeled, considering Eric has many textures by now, I believe the progress of some parts of his work should normally gain in speed as he doesn't have to do everything from scratch all the time.
How is this "knowing anything programming" relevant at all? We're talking of the 3D works in LFS right now. Not Scawen's job of programming. Don't confuse that.
My point was that if only 4 hours had been spent on stuff like that (stuff like that, which includes remapping cars (which the LXs and the RB4 still need to be) and other little tasks like that, or adding bolts to the wheels (a bolt is not quite something hard to model, much easier than a hood pin, which the GTR cars already have)) it would add an edge to LFS. A thing that shows greater attention to detail. Or even that statement is wrong. The cars have that, there are hood pins and wipers and stuff, it's more a lack of consistency in the attention to detail shown.
@Axus: you want a wireframe shot? The button does bulge out. Look closer again. The rest is flat because the reference pics showed me it was flat.
Edit: oh and do you want me to mention the suspension arms of the single seaters?
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Is being able to do 3D models myself , my own textures and either put them in a game engine or render, and knowing the time it takes to do such things enough information about it to be entitled to complain? Oh and I'm not really fast either. RMachucaA is a pro and he's modeling much much much faster than me still.
Here a sample. A steering wheel. Took maybe 4 hours including texturing and making the textures.
ISI is working on a patch for rFactor. That is a fact. Then nothing has been done YET???? Where are you coming from dammit?? LFS S2 Alpha has been released months before rFactor and nothing has been done in here either. We only get language patches which, even though can be important if you want to get a greater userbase, are not quite as important as fixing the aero model which allows for exploits, or adding sounds like the differential sounds in the cars that need it or the shifting sounds. Oh and that's all talking Scawen-work. We don't even know what Eric does (if he does anything at all, but let's not get silly, it's his job).
I mean I'm like 100% sure ISI will get their first rF patch out before LFS gets a patch out that does anything useful at all that actually improves gameplay.
Don't get me wrong, I like LFS and I even help running a league for it. It is my sim of choice, but sometimes I get a feeling of nothing being done. IMO there's a great lack of both feedback and speed in Eric's work. We know pretty much what Scawen is up to, but not Eric. We never know.
I believe you can get free educations in cereal boxes. So the real question is: did he pay the cereal box?
Ok I got a solution for you:
Do a lock out and stop cleaning your room. Then ask your parents to sign a contract that says they will pay you 2$ (USD of course) per week for cleaning your room.
Then you can have LFS in what, 11 weeks? (Less if you do that for the whole house with separate contracts)
Do a lock out and stop cleaning your room. Then ask your parents to sign a contract that says they will pay you 2$ (USD of course) per week for cleaning your room.
Then you can have LFS in what, 11 weeks? (Less if you do that for the whole house with separate contracts)
Of course live env mapping doesn't kill fps if it's only applied to the mirrors of the cars, but from what I've seen so far it does kill the fps if it's applied to the whole cars (and the more cars the worse it gets since they all reflect on each other). But since you have some advanced knowledge of these things, I'll take your word Orion.
AFAIK it would require shaders....dx9 shaders (or OpenGL but LFS doesn't use that). Basically what you do is use cube environement mapping and then set the surface of the mirrors with shaders so it's fully reflective. It just becomes an actual mirror. I did that in Racer once and from experience I can tell you that if that ever gets implemented, there will be a need for a "mirror-adjust" tool too because not everyone like their mirrors the same, not everyone has the same FOV......
Being at it, it makes me think that it would be nice to have an option to adjust seat position.
On that topic I think it would be nice to be able to skin the tires sidewalls. I'd also like to suggest for the wheels to be given bolts and a slight remodelling for a more realistic center part.
I was making reference to the front ride height bug.....
You're kidding right? It IS affected by ride height, just in the wrong direction....
Well how about just a LX6 with a "race ported" engine, slicks and downforce? THAT would be light and would sound right as a LXR.
Hrmmm....I'll try myself with these:
Line: 8.0
Consistency: 4.5
Racecraft: 6
That because when I'm in the groove I'll just get going and I can do pretty good times, but don't ask me to do that consistently, it's 100% sure I'll make mistakes at some point during the race and the longer the race the more mistakes as my thoughts tend to start wandering about real life stuff and concentration goes away....
Line: 8.0
Consistency: 4.5
Racecraft: 6
That because when I'm in the groove I'll just get going and I can do pretty good times, but don't ask me to do that consistently, it's 100% sure I'll make mistakes at some point during the race and the longer the race the more mistakes as my thoughts tend to start wandering about real life stuff and concentration goes away....
Being on the topic of car assists, I would like to bring another point of view.
That is something that should be reviewed in LFS I believe. Instead of having things like the assists being actually assists ingame, I believe it would be better to have them as actually car assists, as they are in real life. So rather than a throttle assist, have a real TC and instead of brake assist, have an actual ABS system implemented.
That said, I would like to see those things implemented on a per-car basis. Should a FO8 have ABS, no TC and a sequential gearbox, EVERYONE would drive it sequential with no TC and you would only be left with the option to disengage the ABS.
Should a FXO be available standard with all assists, you could choose which transmission to use and have the option to turn assists off.
On the same line of thoughts, I would see the driving side per-car too. So if the FZ5 is right hand drive, everyone drives it (and probably the FZR too) on the right side.
I believe that would work very well, could maybe even help balancing the classes a bit. For example the FXR could be made the only of the 3 GTR cars available with a sequential tranny, giving it a shifting time advantage that the other 2 cars don't have.
That is something that should be reviewed in LFS I believe. Instead of having things like the assists being actually assists ingame, I believe it would be better to have them as actually car assists, as they are in real life. So rather than a throttle assist, have a real TC and instead of brake assist, have an actual ABS system implemented.
That said, I would like to see those things implemented on a per-car basis. Should a FO8 have ABS, no TC and a sequential gearbox, EVERYONE would drive it sequential with no TC and you would only be left with the option to disengage the ABS.
Should a FXO be available standard with all assists, you could choose which transmission to use and have the option to turn assists off.
On the same line of thoughts, I would see the driving side per-car too. So if the FZ5 is right hand drive, everyone drives it (and probably the FZR too) on the right side.
I believe that would work very well, could maybe even help balancing the classes a bit. For example the FXR could be made the only of the 3 GTR cars available with a sequential tranny, giving it a shifting time advantage that the other 2 cars don't have.
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