Few pics in daylight

Wanted to upload some pics and a video, but the forum said a tokan was missing, so I couldn't upload them.

I bought one not long ago, around 2 weeks maybe. I had an ETEN X500 before, thats a PPC phone. The 5800 is a dream come true after windows mobile. It's fast, looks good, has GPS, wifi, and dedicated audio chip. The only downside is the cheapish plastic body. It won't be raspy, since the build is quite strong, but the plastic used as the body is low quality. I spent 2 days to make it work on Vista64, windows couldn't recognize it, tried tons of drivers and softwares and finally made it work. There was no problem on win7 and vista32 tho.
The camera is ok, if you use it in daylight, but totally useless when it gets a bit darker.
GPS is damn fast, gets the signal in few seconds, and never loses it. I use the Garmin Mobile XT. Not bad, but the IGO for symbian will be better.

By now there are many themes and apps modded for S60v5, so it won't be a problem. I don't know if you know how to sign unsigned apps, you will need it I think, cause many apps are unsigned, and need to be signed in order to install them on the phone. there are many tutorials on the web about it.

Touchscreen is working very well, even when you are browsing, it's really accurate. It supports muli touch, there are some games that use multi touch, but symbian doesn't use it, afaik because of the licensing issues. But there is no need for it.

About battery life. First 2 days it only lasted a day or so, but now I get 3-4-5 days out of it. I use GPS around half an hour a day, then MP3s and some sudoku, so the battery life is ok.

In overall it's quite a good phone. Good sound quality ( i find it a bit quiet with the factory headset tho ), the 3,2'' 640*360 screen looks awesome, but it's a bit hard to read in sunlight. Never had Nokia before, but I didn't regret it. It's not as exclusive as an iphone (which I personally don't like) but does everything what an iphone does.
It came with an 8GB microsd, a rubber case, spare stylus (which you will never use), headset, usd cable, a pick (you can use it instead of the stylus) and a funny looking holder if you want to put it on a table. Took me 5 days to figure it out what it is good for

Last edited by RevengeR, Mon 27 Apr 2009, 11:09.

I'd go for a Ferrari 308, the one that Magnum drove,



or some lightweight RWD V6/V8 track car. <1000kg, 250-300 hp, manual, and a V engine anywhere between 2000-7000 cm3.

It shows after how much tread wear it changes tires. Like if you set it to 50%, it will change it when the tire is 50% (or more) worn. But here comes the but. It doesn't mean that you will have another happy 50%. In the final ~10 minutes tires will cool down like ice, thus making you slide more -> more wear, so you wont be able to use it for it's full life. (if you do 20 laps with 50% wear, it's unlikely to get another 20 laps out of it, more likely 15)
I'd say that 10-15% below the optimal temperature is ok, but if it cools down more, it's time to change it. The wear - lap count relationship is not linear in this case.

Also, if you are going into pits make sure you change all your tires if you think it's gonna change even 1. Having used/new tires mixed really destroys the balance of the car.

Quote from lEl E Talon :

have you been driving with limiter on since november last year?

Damn, I thought I can swallow my last sip of tea, but now I have it on my keyboard

DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince - Just One Of Those Days

Quote from Tur8o :

oh yeah i know but he say thats the fastest he has seen in auto
so i post my pb to show him my fastest, later on when i have practiced
a little i will do another hotlap to improve it


Tur8o

Why don't you just use manual instead of automatic?

Here's mine btw: http://revbadman.mybrute.com

Quote from sil3ntwar :

Im confused how do you get pupils? I can't see anywhere to click to do it.

Just paste your own link to a new page, then validate a character who you can fight with, and thats it.

Quote from heson :

I did tech myself this tecnique some years ago (after seeing some vid) but its is a bit counter intuitive so I don't use it. The benefit is that the transisions from oversteer to fourwheel drift to grip is smoother with less risk of "over compensation crash" (i.e where all four grips while you are using full oposite lock, sending you into the armco).
It also upsets the suspension less than turning the tyres over the center line (often resulting in the same type of crash than above)
I've dared to try it in RL, well I have but was going to slow for it to work, and now I drive a fwd so I just mash the throttle to counteract the oversteer by understeer.

Regarding locking the fronts to catch a slide:

You need to counter with the throttle to avoid locking the rears. I did alot of this style of driving in nr2003-transam mod, but its very hard to do in a more complete sim. Its s sweet feeling when you get it working, you're instantly in the zone (until you crash it).

Thats ok, but still, it's not the best if you have to stay on the throttle on every braking zone. I don't miss that technique, and I think I'm fast enough without it, so no need to use it.

Atm I own 2 '90 Thunderbirds, both with the 3.8 supercharged V6. One of them is a 35th Anniversary one, with manual gearbox. Sadly it's in quite a bad shape, so no way I'm gonna mess with it, I'll just use it for spare main parts for the other.
So with the other one I have a few plans, but it's on hold due to the lack of money at the moment. I took it apart, only the suspension left, then it will get a new paintjob. Hopefully I'll have both cash and freetime in the summer to work on it.

Rubbish upload speed...

Solitare or Minesweeper. Or both.

Ok guys, I give it up.

Quote from ANAMENOONEHAD :

IMHO adding all that toe is masking a set up problem. do what you like.

It masks the deficiency of the car, not the set. But the more people, the more different driving styles they drive, so there wont be a 'perfect set' for the RAC.
And if you really want to drive near WR pace, you musn't let things like this pass by. If you don't want to, or maybe can't, you are one happy man

Quote from senn :

thats a lots of toe, how many laps do your rears hold out for @ race pace?

Even that huge toe in doesn't make noticeable tire wear during longer distances.

Quote from ANAMENOONEHAD :

DO not do this . this is insane talk my raceabout sets have maybe +.1 to +.2 toe in back . some of my sets have none. you might run -.2 -.1 in front... maybe... but then braking gets more diffucult. DO not just slap huge amounts of toe because you dont have a proper set.

It doesn't mean he musn't use it if some of your sets have none. huge toe in at the rear does help.

Quote from durbster :

I never thought there was any way the real car was anything like the LFS version and that video above demonstrates that pretty comprehensively I think.

A lack of ARB does not make that much difference. I've driven my car for several weeks without an ARB and I didn't have any insane handling issues.

And the lack of ARB is really a kick in the nuts, since we are talking about a car that has 40/60 weight distribution. Trust me, it would be much easier to control with rear ARB, and it wouldn't be needed to compensate the lack of ARB with stiff springs, high coast and big toe values. At least we wouldn't use this high values.

Quote from ussbeethoven :

It depends a lot on handling preferences and personal skill - I certainly wouldn't be happy with a setup including values you described. Once one is somewhat familiar with the car, more aggressive settings might be useful, but at least from my point of view I don't think WR-style setups are a good point to start with.

I wouldn't describe a stiff, aggressive set a WR set. They are not WR sets until a WR is set with them. Also, the current WR at let's say, FE2 RAC can easily be beaten by any kind of set :P No offense, I just wanted to clarify.

You just have to find what the car wants, and not reversed, at least with the RAC. The lack of rear ARB can only be compensated with a stiff, sharp setup.
It's not a must, but if you really want to drive it fast, that's how you have to do it.

Quote from ussbeethoven :

Just because you can't drive it doesn't makes RAC a rubbish car. RMR layout and the lack of a rear ARB makes it tricky on the limit, but you don't have to have alien-like skills - at least in my experience the key for a stable learning curve is to achieve a smooth transition between the initial understeer and snap oversteer, so the setup should reflect this: soft suspension (car responses less aggressively), low front ARB (ditto) plus low rear chamber and a differential kept as open as possible (Viscous LSD is worth trying) on the power side. In terms of driving style, use the throttle smoothly, avoid abrupt release and keep a 'stabilizing' amount of 10-20% especially in fast bends; don't bother with trail braking on your first laps. Existing LRF experience was also very helpful in my case.

Don't be frustrated by incipiently trouble and throwbacks, it takes one or two weeks to get a basic feel of confidence and control - and this car is certainly worth the try.

Well, I have almost exactly the opposite experience, and setup. We had a league race with the RAC on FE Green, which I didn't take part in, but I've done a few laps. You do need stiff suspension, to make it react fast and more agile. Really low front ARB is ok, but you need huge rear camber to stabilize the rear in corners, and also high coast on the diff, to make it as stable as possible under braking. +0.9 toe out on the rear is a must have cause of the lack of rear ARB, and really high rebound damping. With these values RAC is a really sharp car, it's just hard to master. You really gotta think and act before the corners, curbs, otherwise it punishes you like no other car. With the stiff suspension it's easy to do fast weight transfers before the corners. It's quite like XRG in mid-corner, cause all you gotta do is a smart weight transfer to the rear (big camber, and high rebound helps here a lot) and make the corner with minimal steering input.

Quote from shurcooL :

That's a valid and good point. But I think there's [much] more to it than that.

For example:
-camera shaking
-motion blur on wheels
-driver head bobbing/movement based on G-forces [already in LFS]
-wind/sound increasing as a function of speed [already in LFS I guess]

Are some techniques that can be used to increase your perception of speed. I've spent $0 and a few minutes coming up with them. Imagine what would happen if you put in some more resources into the subject, you could get some interesting results. I just find it an interesting (and very important) field, that's all.

Of course, most of those things I mentioned (camera shaking and wheel motion blur) are mostly useful for out-of-car views, not in-driver-seat view. In other words, it's not for racing. So that only makes the problem tougher.

The biggest problem with the sense of speed is that you don't have nothing at your side. I mean when you drive in real life, things you go by make you feel the speed even more, but in LFS, you don't usually have displays at your side windows, which would greatly increase the sense of speed.

Quote from Bob Smith :

22N/mm on that car gives something around 1.35 to 1.4Hz, which sounds about right for a basic shopping trolley, especially back in the late 90s.

It is unlikely that the same settings would work as intended in LFS. The real car likely has a lot more unspung mass (thus reducing the load on the suspension), and some mild anti-dive geometry for hard braking.

Yeah, that sounds right. On my way home I was thinking about the same, didn't realize the the lack of such complex stuff in LFS at first. Also did some zigzag move with the Polo, and man it is soft. On a hot summer day with normal tires it could knock up the suspension for sure.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

It doesn't seem that far fetching, 22 front, 20 rear, with damping of 3.5/2.5 and ride hight 0.176/.170. (anti-roll is unchanged from Default), handles like I'd expect a normal hatch to handle. A touch rolly polly, but doesn't appear all that unrealistic.

Well, a '00 Polo 1.4 feels a lot stiffer. With those settings it knocks the suspension even in a slight turn at moderate speed. Also under braking. Doesn't matter, ill just stick to my custom setup.

Found some exact numbers on a site. The 09 WRX Impreza has 38/34 N/mm spring rate (F/R), the '09 CTS-V has 68 N/mm at the front, and for example a '98 Golf 1.6 has 22 N/mm on the front, a 03 Golf with the 130hp PDTDI has 28.
Trying those in LFS, it looks kinda unrealistic, I mean 22 N/mm on the XFG even with the highest ride height (more would make it offroad) is well.. I don't know. It knocks up even under braking.
Anyway, I think I won't use real life data for the suspension. Don't ask what I need it for :P
Still nothing about the damping rate tho..

Quote from Bob Smith :

Some searching would have proved useful: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23657
For anything else, I just google. Any info on springs, camber, brake balance, and others, is very hard to come by.

Yeah, thats why I asked for some help hehe I visited so many honda forums, I almost know all the Civic's gear ratio and transmission code...
Brake balance and power I might get from come car services where they test the cars for don't know whats that in english, but for the spring and damping rates I'm clueless.