Quote from zeugnimod :

Wreckers often use passengers.

I think thats the main reason.

Wreckers often use cars. We should ban those as well..

"Every tool is a weapon."

Banning something because wreckers happen to do it is retarded, and if thats the case, the CTRA people need to look up the difference in Correlation and Causality.

I doubt thats the reason though...CTRA seems too smart for that.

what really needs to happen is that ctra needs to stop looking for the passenger, its unacceptable, frankly, to have to deal with that.

A passenger will pose no advantage, especially in the power-limited street cars...

I don't mind legitimate bugs, but this is a bit dumb to leave it in there broken.

Quote from richy :

rusty irony?

Yes. Scientifically known as "Irony-oxide."

FFS, stop telling people to search, get the hell over it.

You have two options, just post without searching, and get bitched at...

Or search and add your thoughts to an existing thread and get bitched at for digging up an old thread.

GTF off of your high horses already, it doesnt make you the least bit cool to act like a prick.

He needs to change his thinking and base it on the model itself, not static numbers.

X-Plane (flight sim) determines all of the aerodynamic properties of the aircraft based on it's model. It works on a point weighting system to determine sharpness (the physics of a wing is smooth even though the model is less smooth due to LOD issues...but you can tell points to be weighted more and maintain more of their squareness)

This system works live in X-Plane, and on top of that, X-Plain is a single man/small team of support project as well, similar to LFS. So it could definitely be done.

The affect this would have would be great, as it would open up alot more features automatically. Damage modeling affecting the aero would be automatic... allowing for custom cars would be easier, it could figure out the properties on the fly...etc.

Apparently, its not too cpu intensive because X-Plane is very very low on teh cpu hit... i run it on my laptop all the time... and it makes things so much better, like if you over stress the airframe and lose a control surface, no only does your control go away, but the effect of extra drag and reduced lift is felt as well, and its all automatic...the developer doesnt have to think about what happens when a piece falls of, it just works

I don't mean having the full 3d view in on both screens, I know that's possible. The division between screens (and the inability to ever seem to get the damned colors exactly the same across 2 monitors) make it really impractical to do that...

However, Being an avid Flight Sim fan ... The beauty of dragging UI elements and other stuff (radio stack/gps, etc in the flight sims) to the second monitor...

I know that IRL you dont get to see all of the info that LFS could present, but IRL you're generally not the Driver and Crew Chief at the same time. I think having your pit options, and stuff like that there would be great...as well as a larger map with the driver indicators, so you can actually see who is behind you... as well as expanded lap info (ie, showing split times and lap times for your last 5 or 10 laps)

Tristan...

Dude, you're dense...really.

High down force IRL cars don't run ovals in the rain, the physics are very different.

Most people who feel the need to knock Nascar, frankly just don't get it, an never will.

F1 is about DRIVING. Most of the time its a few drivers who happen to be hot lapping at the same time. Competition is almost nill ... lets not even bring team order BS into this...

Nascar is about RACING. There is a big difference.

Driving is about the track. Racing is about the drivers. If you cant get that, there's no point arguing.

Rain has been tried, I've watched nascar races in the rain, I've seen them in person. See, on TV, you get the top two series, but there are many levels of nascar, and many more of non-nascar stock car. Rain has been tried over and over, it doesnt work.

Now, I dont think F1 drivers are pansies, I dont have to emasculate people I dont know to make myself feel better. However, I find the idea of driving a computer controlled car with traction control, automatic shifting, auto clutch, high downforce car with extra-wide tires a little less challenging than driving a 4000lb, low tech, half-downforce car with tires half as wide.... Nascar Drivers, F1 Pilots...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags

FIA seems to be the one varying the most.

Frankly, most series originiated in different countries...its not suprising they have different flag systems...

Quote from Forbin :

Besides, what you're asking for is pure eye candy, and we tend to frown upon such things around here.

No, its not.

It affects downforce in a serious way, and just as importantly, it affects visibility for the driver...neither are trivial..

The track texture resolution isnt worth it to me...stuff moves too fast (well, not that fast, i suck...) to really enjoy it...

However, high-def cockpits, suits, steering wheel, and (for the open wheel cars) tires...those are worth it to me...and make a noticeable difference.

The sound files are good to if you can find some good ones...get some more bass into the bigger engines...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Hmm. I didn't see you in there. Envy?

Hell yes I'm envious... I'm at work flowcharting a gigantic site/webapp/viral for a huge client... grrrr....

I would have been there, I can't drive those that great, but I still love driving them

"Proper Men's Cars" ?

You've somehow connected your manhood to cars? sooo cliché...

Quote from wark :

It would be nothing more than a nuisance to the majority of LFS users.

cite your source? focus on the word "majority"

Very few spiders can kill you.

Black widows for example, generally only cause death in infants and very young children. Some adults can be allergic to them and risk death...but for the most part, they just hurt like hell (their venom causes random muscle contractions...think of the worst cramp you've even had and multiply it by 20)

Most house spiders are harmless.

The myth about eating them, or having crawl in your nose/mouth, totally false. Like most insects, they are great at detecting carbon dioxide. Its a defense mechanism, anything that gives off carbon dioxide has lungs, anything with lungs is likely a predator, if not just much larger and dangerous to them... Aside from bigger tarantulas, simple blowing softly on a spider will make them run away, or ball up in defense.

People do -eat- spiders, they are quite tasty (i've eaten alot of bugs...after the first couple bugs you try on a dare, you actually kinda like them, and its good for grossing out people...keep in mind lobster/crab/shrimp are really just insects, their muscle structure is the same as land insects...the only ones you dont eat are colorful ones and ones that stink...those are poison giveaways)

I used to have a serious fear of insects. I dont like being afraid of things, so I studied them. I bought books on them, their biology, effect on the environment...etc. They are quite interesting little creatures. Spiders are high up on teh cool factor...

Anyways...to the point. House spiders dont generally have any poison at all, and very few spiders can be leathal...Black Widows just hurt like hell (bit 3 times, personally...used to be a cable buy...they like peds...those little tube shaped things in yards with the cables in them).

But, and I say this in all seriousness. If you live in the mid-range (north/south) to south sections of america, learn what Brown Recluses (FiddleBacks) look like.

Heres a pic

Their bite is terrible. Painfull, but the pain isnt the problem. They literally cause your tissue to rot off of you. And the process can last for years after the bite...and eventually spread to the heart, and cause death.

The picture in the link below is of a bite to the hand after only 10 days.

IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH, DO NOT OPEN THE LINK BELOW ... im not even going to hyperlink it, copy and paste if you want to see it, dont want to suprise anyone...

Quote from amp88 :

You're attacking me directly but you're not disagreeing with the point I made. I think that says it all really. If someone drives around the track at 30mph with a broken car then yellow flags will be shown for all approaching cars (as long as they're moving along at racing speed). Of course, you could say that's a little unrealistic as they should, depending on the series, be waving a white flag (or other?) for a slow car on the track, rather than yellow. Anyway, I digress...obviously totally unrealistic features should be implemented just because you get yourself involved in first lap incidents.

I wasn't attacking you directly, I was specifically attacking and disagreeing with your point...maybe your reading a different post? If you want me to attack you personally, I cant. I dont know you, all I know is your point of view on this. I think your point of view is both short-sided and narrow-minded, and fails to understand the environment and situation it applies to.

My point was, and is, that LFS is barely realistic as it is. Most "sims" are this way. If you want a -real- sim, see if you can drop by a boeing training center, for only a couple thousand dollars you can get an hour or so in a real sim. A real sim powered by a bank of high-end computers.

"just because you get yourself involved in first lap incidents." - If you want to try to insult me, man up and say what you want, don't hide behind your words. Frankly, I have been wrecked exactly once on the first lap. I swing wide and let them wreck to my inside...sometimes they don't wreck, and I lose time...but oh well. If you want, we can race, and we can see how many first lap incidents You "get yourself into." If you havent noticed, the people that generally get wrecked in T1 arent the ones that cause the wreck... However, in real life, as you seem to dearly attached to, real race-car drivers who are responsible for the damage they do to their cars (street cars) or are racing million dollar race cars dont generally have someone behind them that doesnt know how to drive.

As I said, compromise has to be made to balance out the shortcomings inherent in a game, especially an online game with people of different experience and connection quality.

You're right, its much more realistic to have a car just disappear from the track...or to have damaged cars driving at 30-40 miles per hour around the entire track during green flag racing. Or better yet, in real life, new drivers are in a new car and restart on their first lap instantly after a wreck halfway through the race.

Its also hyper realistic to feel no g-forces, to allow people with no experience to drive what would be million dollar racing machines, to not have peripheral vision, to be able to see your tire temps in real time, to have a map showing you the position of every car on the track, to have to make all pit decisions on your own as a driver while driving at speed, to roll a car and continue near full speed, to clip a wall and flip violently 90 feet in the air... do I have to continue.

If you want realism, buy a racecar and get some seat time. This is a game. It's a simulator, but it's still, at it's core, a game. The point of the game is to have fun. Our "realism" is quite interesting in fake cars on fake tracks. Or when opponents jump back and forth 3 feet due to lag... Part of any good racing game/sim, its the ability to make concessions to adapt to the shortcomings it also presents.

Frankly, LFS is good, but I wouldnt call it a sim. In real life, if I shift from 6th to 1st at speed, my motor only works for about a 10th of a second. If people in real life hit the rumble stips as hard as most people do in lfs, they would blow a tire in a couple of laps. Real drivers wouldnt hit the steep rumble strips at some of the tracks in lfs, they are just too harsh. Open wheel cars dont have a problem when tires hit front to back like they do in real life... Brakes dont go soft in this game, ive ran 100 laps single player before and the brakes felt that same at lap 100 as they did at lap 1, nowhere near realistic...

I don't mean to insult you, but frankly, i've grown amazing tired and irritated at the realism zealots here who don't have a leg to stand on, honestly...

LFS needs a "tow" option.

Instead of telepitting (and resetting your laps...great idea that is), have a simulated "tow" feature. No need to actually have a model of a towtruck, just instantly put me in the pits, and start a countdown. The time should be based on how long it would take to get from where you were on the track to the pits at, say, 25mph.

In long races, if you get wrecked in t1...you HAVE to pit. I've seen, and myself done this, people cause wrecks trying to drive back to the pits with busted rear suspension, only to have the diff kick in at the wrong time and turn me into the racing line. If its a 50+ lap race, I certainly dont want to retire at lap one...let us get back saftely (to other drivers) to pit lane and get repairs...it will help everyone, should be extremely easy to implement (telepit is already there, just do that with a timer, and dont reset my lap count). Once the timer runs down, your crew does the pit work, and you can rejoin the race...like real cars do after wrecks, because staying out 5 laps down, you might pass 10 people in a 50 lap race due to attrition...

?

Quote from wark :

Then the question becomes: why implement something just so it can be disabled?

Yeah...like typing (can block users) ... what a waste of a feature communication is, i mean, it can just be disabled..right? Sorry, that was a silly statement. Anything that is an OPTION falls under your logic of being worthless...

Voice should be added. When it's done correctly, it's invaluable. If you want to turn it off for public races, then fine.

Alot of games have done great implimentations of voice, Halo 2, for example, and even moreso in Halo3. The problem with halo is alot of kids yelling and such, but it takes 2 seconds to mute the bad ones. Bing able to tell a tell a teammate something in a split second is great.

The thing that made Halo2 amazing, and makes it so that teamspeak/etc cant touch it, is proximity voice. You can hear everyone in your proximity...but only your teammates far away, and only if they pudh the talk button.

Alot of the racing games on XBL have done similar, where you can only hear 2-3 cars ahead of or behind you (or 200 ft, instead of cars...etc).

If you can set it so that you can only hear the closest cars to you (and the volume they come through at would be determined by distance), it becomes very useful. Now, when you type "im passing you right" to a lapper, nobody knows who the heck your talking to, because your name isnt in the mirror...etc. Well, you could say "Coming up on your right, bob" ... alot quicker and safer than typing it. And things like "thanks" and "pass me up here after the chicane" are much easier...

Can it be used to annoy, maybe...but if that's your cause, then we should disable collisions with other cars, because people can intentionally wreck you, too. One of my favorite quotes ever "Every tool is a weapon". If it can do good, it can likely do bad. you cant control how people use a tool, but that shouldnt stop you from deploying it.

As for bandwidth, XBOX Live has proven that bandwidth isnt really an issue. I've been in FULL halo2 games with EVERYONE talking (deathmatches...shit-talking is par for the course, and part of the fun) and had no problem. With the amount of people on broadband, its becoming even less of a problem. I can remember playing Nascar '99 (papyrus) over dialup using Roger Wilco, and never had a problem. Most of the time, voice is 8k per second for those apps, thats a drop in the bucket these days.

You have to provide options (like blocking players, blocking anyone not in a car, dis/enable talking post and pre-race ... etc), but its far from harmful.

And if hearing someone talk into your ear messes up your concentration...well..work on that...situational awareness FTW.

Quote from waider :

LoL you are so funny...
Why dont upload my content, its a feature. Stealing skin is not a feature its acting like a twat.

Once I see you on the street (public place) I will stole your personal effects coz I consider they are public...

I bet that you don't make skins so don't speak about something you can't understand.

They aren't stealing it. You are G-I-V-I-N-G it to them. You are uploading it to a service who's sole purpose is to DISTRIBUTE IT.

The connection between stealing a physical item and this is beyond stupid. I'm trying very hard not to berate you more than necessary, but you are making it oh so very hard. I know you probably wont understand this concept, but I'll explain it anyway.

Taking a physical item from someone DEPRIVES them of said item. They LOSE something, they leave with LESS than they started with. In the case of content, they aren't STEALING it...stealing indicated theft, theft indicates loss. You have LOST nothing. You still have your skin, therefore, they are not, in fact, stealing it. Its the same with the music industry. At least though, with music, they can claim a loss, because they lost the sale. You aren't selling anything, so you have no argument. Also, Last I checked, there is no way to upload a license with the image, so you can't even claim copyright infringement. While you legally hold the copyright, without a license, it falls under "fair use" and therefor, they can use it.

As for not knowing what I'm talking about... Nope, I don't skin cars for LFS. The texture mapping is horrendous at best. I've got about 10 cars I've done...only 2 uploaded to lfsworld because the others are incomplete. As games go, the mapping of the models is very bad. A 25 pixel square on the hood is generally not the same size on the model as a 25 pixel square on the door. That's a HUGE no-no when it comes to serious modeling/texturing. Frankly, I don't feel the need to waste my time trying to work around it.

However, I do spend around 10-15 hours a week contributing to various open-source development projects. All free, all open source, and all GPL licensed (anyone can copy, modify, and redistribute any code I create at their leisure, as long as they leave my license info in the file). Frankly, I think that content creators who try to keep anyone from using their content, or only allow its use with restrictive terms, are greedy, self-serving, poor examples of humanity. Theres a time and a place to make money off of content creation, when its offered as a service, ok. Development shops, software developers, and artists that actually provide their skills as paid services are fine. People who do it for a hobby, put it out there for anyone (generally more of a "bragging" type thing) and bitch when someone uses it that they don't like are quite despicable.

If you don't want someone to use your skin, don't give it to them. Simple as that. Your argument is juvenile and defensive, which means it should hardly be taken seriously. By putting your skin on lfsworld.com, you are, in-fact, GIVING it to everyone you race with, and you are doing so without license or restriction. If you don't like it, don't upload it. If you create skins because you like it, then keep them to yourself. But thats not really it, you want everyone to see it, you want the attention, you have the need to feel recognition for your work, and that's perfectly ok, thats normal behavior in every aspect. However, unless LFS integrates some sort of license system or encryption setup, anything you upload is considered "fair use" material, and that means people can use, modify, and redistribute. The only thing they can do that would be marginally illegal, would be to profit from it...and thats still a very gray line.

Quote from Darkone55 :

To be honest, how can you manage to get 1 lap behind in a 5-10 lap race anyway? Sorry but then you're just a very bad driver.

Yeah, probably has nothing to do with getting knocked into the sandpit by someone else in T1, getting wrecked by somone else in general to the point of needed to telepit, then when you rejoin your back on lap 1.

Oh, that and new people pick the game up every day. I doubt you were running with the leaders in your first 50 races...

Sorry, I don't think you meant to...but your post sounded very, very elitist...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Why race the LX6 when it takes 10x more effort to drive than the FOX?

Why race a street car when you can race a purpose-built racing machine?

Every snide argument has it's counterpoint.

Frankly, the "people" don't decide which cars are popular.

The server admins do.

The big servers (ctra, etc) focus on specific cars. Therefore, people want seat time in those particular cars, and practice in those cars. So they choose those cars and join servers that have those cars (thus, providing false-demand and furthering the cycle)

If the ctra or redline server started races with the uf1000, the mrt, or the lx-X cars, those would be the popular cars.

I'm great in the MRT, its my favorite car to drive, it provides a better "racing" experience than any other car (try racing with 20 of them on a shorter track...its constant wheel clinching hardcore racing) ... but none of the servers run then hardly, so they dont gain popularity.

Quote from richy :

Thats the only way you will get peeps to be generous with the blue flag situation. Both the passing driver and the back marker have to work together.

Thats exactly the attitude to have! +1

In real racing, driving in and managing lapped traffic is a skill, and can be used to gain positions. Learning how to set up an opponent to where he will be slowed down by a lapped car is valuable in real racing, and a great skill to have.

"f I or someone else make a PERSONNAL skin, its to keep it personal because this person want to be original and dont wanna see the firt nooby twat wear it thinking that he will be better with a nice skin."

Frankly, its no longer a "personal" skin when you upload it to a "public" server. It's "public" a that point, and your juvenile rant is moot.

Basically, you're uploading content to be given freely to those who race you. You know that's the deal.

You have 2 choices here.

1) Upload your content so people can see it. Obviously for them to display said content, it has to reside on their system. Once content is no longer in your hands, you've lost the ability to control it. You know this already, so the simple act of uploading is sort-of a de-facto agreement to that.

2) Don't upload your content. Easy as that.

Encryption/Password locking are dumb ideas. At the least, they will slow the process down. At worst, they are useless. A password is only good until its figured out. At that point it doesn't matter anymore, because you can't simply change the password in the next version of lfs, because it would break all the skins you had downloaded. Frankly, I would rather the devs work on the game, and not play content-nanny for you.

Watching the x-games today, and then played some "DiRT" on the 360...

Sat down to start some LFS and it hit me... X-Over rally!

You have to do it with 2 people (or one person...but not as fun) and set it for 2 laps (or any even number)

The crossover point is possible place for wrecking, but one side has more slow points before the crossover, so you shouldnt really hit it at the same time. Amazingly, both sides take about the same time to complete, so if your equal racers, you could have some good side-by-side (barring the wall between you) racing towards the end. I thought about using a jump to handle the crossover, but as buggy as the ramps can be, i decided against it...

I'll even make everyone a deal...tell this idiot how to take a screenshot, and I'll put some on here! I searched the forum, but anything with the word screenshot in it comes up, and you can imagine how huge that list gets...

Last edited by rjm1982, Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:10.