Look at (maybe) the DSR servers... or someone else.. I don't know the name of it... they somtimes run GTR classes (each car requiring certain handicaps), and sometimes they run uf1000, xfg, xrg ... with the latter 2 cars requiring intake handicaps. If you turn on passengers, it kicks back...if you turn them off, it doesnt...and the same setups that get me dropped on the ctra servers will work there.
Aren't you just full of yourself?
You're always insulting if anyone questions your precious system...You did a great job with it...but it has problems. It wouldn't be a problem but you willfully, intentionally ignore problems...you require someone to step up as a 3rd party to fix it. Class act.
I won't be back in here, and I won't be back in your servers. It's a shame, some good racers there, but being there is, by proxy, supporting you...
Aren't you just full of yourself?
You're always insulting if anyone questions your precious system...You did a great job with it...but it has problems. It wouldn't be a problem but you willfully, intentionally ignore problems...you require someone to step up as a 3rd party to fix it. Class act.
I won't be back in here, and I won't be back in your servers. It's a shame, some good racers there, but being there is, by proxy, supporting you...
Last edited by rjm1982, .
So, if a wrecker is there...and sees no passengers, he just says "darn, I guess I can't wreck here...guess I'll leave" ... right? No, they pick a non-passenger setup and wreck anyways. The Net effect? Nill.
"We don't think you should be giving passengers a lift around when you're racing on our servers." -- neither do I...and imagine that, my setups don't have extra passengers. You're detection (put the blame where you want it, it's still your detection) is flawed.
So in the end, you don't prevent wreckers or deter them, and you aggravate people for no reason. CTRA servers are full of people who just cant wait to tattle when someone does something wrong...if someone is driving with passengers, you can expect they would be reported promptly.
It's the reason I don't race on CTRA, and I enjoyed when I did race there, but my 2 best setups fail your test, even with the tool.
Then how come other servers who check for passengers don't have that problem?
On a fresh LFS install, the RACE_S setup on the XFG fails with the passenger error on CTRA server and not on other servers that check for passengers (with other methods?).
Regardless of the cause of the bug, its a bug...it disrupts gameplay negatively, and its intended purpose is rather weak to begin with...there is no reason they should choose to inconvenience so many people for such a small thing.
On a fresh LFS install, the RACE_S setup on the XFG fails with the passenger error on CTRA server and not on other servers that check for passengers (with other methods?).
Regardless of the cause of the bug, its a bug...it disrupts gameplay negatively, and its intended purpose is rather weak to begin with...there is no reason they should choose to inconvenience so many people for such a small thing.
Bob's fix is the 3rd party fix I was referring to...I'm not knocking the tool.
I'm pointing out that the problem with the passenger reading on CTRA servers is ridiculously stupid to the point that the check should be removed. I shouldn't need an extra 3rd party tool to fix a bug in X-System.
When I have to pick a different setup because the one that I've spent 3 hours working on won't work because the X-System is reading a passenger that isn't there, its aggravating as hell, and until they can get that check right (which, frankly, is a stupid check to begin with...passengers aren't providing an advantage), they need to remove it. You don't release buggy code to the public, and then ignore the problem. You don't say "just pick another setup". You fix the problem, or you remove the problem...
Im going off topic a bit...
Ian...your example is right...and its the core of most civilized socieities...
Civil Disobedience has brought more change than most other methods... stop being a prick and let people enjoy the forum...
Ian...your example is right...and its the core of most civilized socieities...
Civil Disobedience has brought more change than most other methods... stop being a prick and let people enjoy the forum...
Isnt it great that we have to rely on 3rd party fixes to fix a rediculous bug that should be fix/removed anyways....
I think the Papyrus sims were by far the best.
When a Winston Cup driver could literally set a car up based on the setup he was using at the track, set the temp and wind, and run a times in the sim all around a tenth to 2 tenths what he was running in the car on the track...that says alot.
I have no "official" record to give of that, other than Dale Jr had NR2002 in his motorhome and we talked about it one day (week-long garage passes are nice things to have). It was at dover in 2003. He said he uses it all week long to practice, and has even used to to try new things in the setup to give him an idea of what to work with Eury Jr the next day in practice...
Now, not saying that other sims aren't as good, but thats the only one I have some "from the horses mouth" data on... He uses Thomas Super Wheels as well...
When a Winston Cup driver could literally set a car up based on the setup he was using at the track, set the temp and wind, and run a times in the sim all around a tenth to 2 tenths what he was running in the car on the track...that says alot.
I have no "official" record to give of that, other than Dale Jr had NR2002 in his motorhome and we talked about it one day (week-long garage passes are nice things to have). It was at dover in 2003. He said he uses it all week long to practice, and has even used to to try new things in the setup to give him an idea of what to work with Eury Jr the next day in practice...
Now, not saying that other sims aren't as good, but thats the only one I have some "from the horses mouth" data on... He uses Thomas Super Wheels as well...
Not so much. It worked great in other games (NR2002). It works great in real life (there are many leagues on the entry-level that do this, alot of them in karting)
If your still a better driver, of course you will do better, thats the whole point. With fixed setups, the drivers win, not the cars. I can shave 5 seconds of of alot of tracks with just the right setup (compared to the basic "hardtrack") setup.
Also, it would allow the server to force more realistic setups. One area that LFS is lacking is ride-height. It handles it correctly as far as the suspension goes, but it doesn't handle airflow under the car affecting its performance...so many setups out there jack the cars up so they can smash the curbs to get better lap times...IRL, that wouldnt fly...
You know, the self-righteous pricks (snide comments about searching and posting) make me feel almost embarrased to be a part of this game...
Is it so hard to just keep your mouth shut if you can't say something nice to someone? Do you need to feed your ego by pretending that you are better than someone else? The forum has mods, they do their job well, I don't think we need 20 people being pricks about it.
Frankly, you all act like children in this forum. New threads arent a bad thing, I'm sure they arent paying for hosting by the thread. The alternative would be 20 long threads full of dated information.
Is it so hard to just keep your mouth shut if you can't say something nice to someone? Do you need to feed your ego by pretending that you are better than someone else? The forum has mods, they do their job well, I don't think we need 20 people being pricks about it.
Frankly, you all act like children in this forum. New threads arent a bad thing, I'm sure they arent paying for hosting by the thread. The alternative would be 20 long threads full of dated information.
Here's my first attempt at a skin.
Actually, I lie. Not my first attempt, but my first finished skin...i usually give up and get tired of all of the warping/stretching/terrible mapping on these models...
I know that Ubuntu has been done a lot on most of the LFS cars, but I haven't seen an FBM version as of yet...
It looks good on the track at least
Actually, I lie. Not my first attempt, but my first finished skin...i usually give up and get tired of all of the warping/stretching/terrible mapping on these models...
I know that Ubuntu has been done a lot on most of the LFS cars, but I haven't seen an FBM version as of yet...
It looks good on the track at least
What I want for S3?
A community that isnt full of self-righteous pricks would be a great start. You realize that if nobody ever started duped threads that there would literally be like 5 topics with 400 pages in them, and nobody would ever read through it, and it would actually be less accesable, right?
Do you guys have nothing better to do with yourselves than try to play pretend moderator?
If i had to add something to the list of wants, it would be texture mapping with some intellegence behind it...intentionally warped/mis-sized textures are unexcusable in the game world, but the dev team seems to insist on them...
A community that isnt full of self-righteous pricks would be a great start. You realize that if nobody ever started duped threads that there would literally be like 5 topics with 400 pages in them, and nobody would ever read through it, and it would actually be less accesable, right?
Do you guys have nothing better to do with yourselves than try to play pretend moderator?
If i had to add something to the list of wants, it would be texture mapping with some intellegence behind it...intentionally warped/mis-sized textures are unexcusable in the game world, but the dev team seems to insist on them...
Even then, its not part of the core, and by default, will be seperated from the core, making it ingerently limited.
Look to FPSs for guidance here...quake, unreal, tribes (the best as far as scripting goes). They all are built around being able to be scripted. Mods created, all kinds of useful client and server-side tools...and none of them have had a "cheating problem" associated with the scripting stuff...so thats obviously not a reason to ignore that segment...
I need to learn more about insim...I've used a few of the tools created for it, but never delved in on my own. I may be speaking out of my league, but I can't imagine it's as good as having access to the core a scripting engine would provide.
Look to FPSs for guidance here...quake, unreal, tribes (the best as far as scripting goes). They all are built around being able to be scripted. Mods created, all kinds of useful client and server-side tools...and none of them have had a "cheating problem" associated with the scripting stuff...so thats obviously not a reason to ignore that segment...
I need to learn more about insim...I've used a few of the tools created for it, but never delved in on my own. I may be speaking out of my league, but I can't imagine it's as good as having access to the core a scripting engine would provide.
A scripting engine in LFS would be an end-all to a huge number of "wishlist" items... I still can't believe that as mature as LFS is, and as "community based" as it is... there is no internal scripting engine...it baffles me...
...but that's another thread...
...but that's another thread...
Actually, most race cars DON'T have smooth underbodies...they did for a bit, then they realized that's a terrible idea...remember the Mercedies and the other (Porsche, Jag? ... i forget) lifting off on a straight piece of track and doing backwards flips?
Open wheel cars still use smooth bottom plates, but thats's because the car's arent shaped like normal cars...which have a profile similar to a wing...and a smooth bottom promotes more airflow under the car, meaning air under is moving much faster than the air over the car...which is what gives a wing lift...all you have to do at that point it give it a positive angle of incidence (lift the nose just a bit) and you have a flying car...
I think a modeled version would be great...and would look nice...doesnt have to be super detailed (think something like the bottom of a hot-wheels car) ... but just make it look like something more than absolute black...
Open wheel cars still use smooth bottom plates, but thats's because the car's arent shaped like normal cars...which have a profile similar to a wing...and a smooth bottom promotes more airflow under the car, meaning air under is moving much faster than the air over the car...which is what gives a wing lift...all you have to do at that point it give it a positive angle of incidence (lift the nose just a bit) and you have a flying car...
I think a modeled version would be great...and would look nice...doesnt have to be super detailed (think something like the bottom of a hot-wheels car) ... but just make it look like something more than absolute black...
As to the wall vs sand trap...I prefer the walls.
I've been wrecked more by people getting a tire off on exit, hooking the car, overcorrecting and ending up 90 degress to me across the track...then I have being wreck by somone hitting a wall, most of the time people just stick it in the wall and slide along it...
I've been wrecked more by people getting a tire off on exit, hooking the car, overcorrecting and ending up 90 degress to me across the track...then I have being wreck by somone hitting a wall, most of the time people just stick it in the wall and slide along it...
A possible solution?
I was thinking of this last night...I actually fell asleep thinking about it...and I had not even seen this post yet...just something that crossed my mind.
But here's what I came up with for a way to make the setups work.
It would actually have to be built into LFS at the core, not just using insim.
Basically, someone would first create the setup and the "rules" for the setup.
The rules would actually be part of the .set file. When that set file is loaded, unchangeable options would be grayed out, or options with specific choices/ranges would only allow those things to be changed. If you wanted, you could change them (after a warning), but it would update the rules section of the set file, so it would no longer be validated as the same setup.
As far as in-game checking. A hash could be created based off of the rules (not the entire set) and sent to the server. The server could then verify that the hash is correct based off of the rules it is setup for.
One thing about this idea that makes it nice, is since the server is just checking a hash, it could easily and quickly check against multiple rule sets. In a kart league i raced in when I was younger, you could chose between 3 gear sets, but based on those gear sets, your tire choice was dependant. So, you could choose a higher top-end gear set, but you would be forced to use a harder compound tire, and the trade-off was a faster top end, but reduced cornering...and it produced great races (less "clone-car" feeling). So a league could publish multiple rule sets, and check to make sure you are using one of them...
This way, you get the best of both worlds.
You can verify the setup server side based on the rules, and the actual setup is never sent (so you don't have to worry if you're the kind to worry about your setup being stolen). It also reduces bandwidth and CPU cycles needed to verify it.
It would need one last failsafe. Every time the setup is loaded, it would need to check that the actual setup is in compliance with the rules (so it couldn't be hacked, by someone externally changing the file without changing the rules section..but that would be a very fast, client-side only check.
But here's what I came up with for a way to make the setups work.
It would actually have to be built into LFS at the core, not just using insim.
Basically, someone would first create the setup and the "rules" for the setup.
The rules would actually be part of the .set file. When that set file is loaded, unchangeable options would be grayed out, or options with specific choices/ranges would only allow those things to be changed. If you wanted, you could change them (after a warning), but it would update the rules section of the set file, so it would no longer be validated as the same setup.
As far as in-game checking. A hash could be created based off of the rules (not the entire set) and sent to the server. The server could then verify that the hash is correct based off of the rules it is setup for.
One thing about this idea that makes it nice, is since the server is just checking a hash, it could easily and quickly check against multiple rule sets. In a kart league i raced in when I was younger, you could chose between 3 gear sets, but based on those gear sets, your tire choice was dependant. So, you could choose a higher top-end gear set, but you would be forced to use a harder compound tire, and the trade-off was a faster top end, but reduced cornering...and it produced great races (less "clone-car" feeling). So a league could publish multiple rule sets, and check to make sure you are using one of them...
This way, you get the best of both worlds.
You can verify the setup server side based on the rules, and the actual setup is never sent (so you don't have to worry if you're the kind to worry about your setup being stolen). It also reduces bandwidth and CPU cycles needed to verify it.
It would need one last failsafe. Every time the setup is loaded, it would need to check that the actual setup is in compliance with the rules (so it couldn't be hacked, by someone externally changing the file without changing the rules section..but that would be a very fast, client-side only check.
There is a perfect system... Humans. We're pretty good at cognitive judgments like that
.Even your system has a failure point. I wrecked someone bad today, caused by another harmless incident. Coming up to T1 at AS Club, we were 3 wide, the 2 guys outside were passing me (i was staying way over, letting them by) They wrecked, and pushed me to the right. I was in the grass, no chance of stopping from full speed, so into the corner i slide at 100 mph or so... t-bone the guy that was in front of us...he was mad at first, but then heard me (and the 2 others backing me up) and was cool.
I let off my brakes at the end before i hit him, because hitting someone hard with the nose settled from braking almost always launches them, if you let off, alot of times it just becomes a horizontal slam.
So, I was:
1) going about 50-60mph faster than him
2) no brakes at impact
3) off racing line
4) hit him at 90 degrees to the side
I failed all of those points.
Its a close system, and that kind of wreck isn't common, but if 1 in 100 people who get booted shouldn't have, then its a failure and shouldn't be used. Thats why I wont go into CTRA servers anymore, the passenger bug means i have to change perfectly good setups for no reason at all... so the system does absolutely nothing good, but caused problems for people. Collateral damage with not enough possible good to justify it.
since most races online are so short, you can get away with it.
Try running one of those rediculous camber setups for a full fuel tank run...
Try running one of those rediculous camber setups for a full fuel tank run...
There is no way to detect it, period.
How does a computer, through math alone, determine the difference between...
1) Wrecker never touches the brakes, slams you in a hairpin...
vs
2) Wrecker waits off track, then pull in front of you, causing you to hit him.
vs
3) You spin, pull saftely out of the racing line as cars pass, and a wrecker intentionally nails you.
In case 1, the wrecker is the much faster driver.
In case 2, the wrecker is the slower driver
In case 3, the wrecker is the faster driver, but how do you know hes a wrecker or not, he could have just started a pass and not seen you till he pulled out from behind someone.
There have been things like this in other games, and heres what always happens. Some wreckers get kicked, yes. Alot of honest races would too. Even the spin detector, ive been spectated before for clipping the wall coming out of the chicane at SO.
LFS needs to implement a global "rating" system. Not a points system like some of the leagues do. A rating system, based on wrecks, restarts, etc... and allow servers to set ranges of ratings... That way, people end up playing with people of their caliber. The catch to a system like this is that LFS server controller would have to look at servers, recognize that everyone is set very high and there is no races for low-rank drivers, and would have to let them temp have a higher rank, so they could race...still better than nothing though. Either way, if you were bad enough, you would have a hard time finding a fun race.
Another option is "conditional ghosting" ... ie, your closing rate on a car is too high, you pass through them. Good racers are rarely going to hit another racer at high speed difference, so for those of you serious enough to complain about the realism(lack of) of ghosting would never be effected by it... That way, the guy that plows turn 1 cant ruin the race for others...or the guy that pulls out in front of the leaders cant either...
Creative ideas are needed for these kinds of problems, as computers cannot make objective descisions.
How does a computer, through math alone, determine the difference between...
1) Wrecker never touches the brakes, slams you in a hairpin...
vs
2) Wrecker waits off track, then pull in front of you, causing you to hit him.
vs
3) You spin, pull saftely out of the racing line as cars pass, and a wrecker intentionally nails you.
In case 1, the wrecker is the much faster driver.
In case 2, the wrecker is the slower driver
In case 3, the wrecker is the faster driver, but how do you know hes a wrecker or not, he could have just started a pass and not seen you till he pulled out from behind someone.
There have been things like this in other games, and heres what always happens. Some wreckers get kicked, yes. Alot of honest races would too. Even the spin detector, ive been spectated before for clipping the wall coming out of the chicane at SO.
LFS needs to implement a global "rating" system. Not a points system like some of the leagues do. A rating system, based on wrecks, restarts, etc... and allow servers to set ranges of ratings... That way, people end up playing with people of their caliber. The catch to a system like this is that LFS server controller would have to look at servers, recognize that everyone is set very high and there is no races for low-rank drivers, and would have to let them temp have a higher rank, so they could race...still better than nothing though. Either way, if you were bad enough, you would have a hard time finding a fun race.
Another option is "conditional ghosting" ... ie, your closing rate on a car is too high, you pass through them. Good racers are rarely going to hit another racer at high speed difference, so for those of you serious enough to complain about the realism(lack of) of ghosting would never be effected by it... That way, the guy that plows turn 1 cant ruin the race for others...or the guy that pulls out in front of the leaders cant either...
Creative ideas are needed for these kinds of problems, as computers cannot make objective descisions.
It looks extremely stupid for grown men to be complaining of such things.
Why is everyone complaining about this...
I think their stupid, i dont use them. However, something I find more stupid is the constant complaining about it.
Its not a performance boost.
It doesn't affect you.
Get over it.
If thats enough to distract you, you're not really doing so well at focusing in the first place. I dont even see the point of helmets and suits. Even in the open-wheel cars, I often dont even notice the helmets. I've been watching replays before and thought "he had a bright pink helmet the whole time?" ... i just dont notice. I look at the car, not the driver...
I think their stupid, i dont use them. However, something I find more stupid is the constant complaining about it.
Its not a performance boost.
It doesn't affect you.
Get over it.
If thats enough to distract you, you're not really doing so well at focusing in the first place. I dont even see the point of helmets and suits. Even in the open-wheel cars, I often dont even notice the helmets. I've been watching replays before and thought "he had a bright pink helmet the whole time?" ... i just dont notice. I look at the car, not the driver...
I think something like this would be awesome if done the way he was (and i was) thinking about it.
I think it would be a great addition if the devs allowed you to create something that ran client-side and connected to the main lfs server...that way, its centralized and works across multiple servers...
But great idea and execution!
I think it would be a great addition if the devs allowed you to create something that ran client-side and connected to the main lfs server...that way, its centralized and works across multiple servers...
But great idea and execution!
Stop. Bumping.
This thread died 3 months ago, let it go...bumping your own thread for attention is lame.
This thread died 3 months ago, let it go...bumping your own thread for attention is lame.
Couldnt get picture angles to do it justice...
so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDTZPi0QGs
the jerkyness is just me trying to navigate in the shift-u mode
so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDTZPi0QGs
the jerkyness is just me trying to navigate in the shift-u mode
Nice, give me a reason to learn the tintops...
Im not a fan of the lower classes...so ctra sucks for me
Im not a fan of the lower classes...so ctra sucks for me
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG