What I want for S3?
A community that isnt full of self-righteous pricks would be a great start. You realize that if nobody ever started duped threads that there would literally be like 5 topics with 400 pages in them, and nobody would ever read through it, and it would actually be less accesable, right?
Do you guys have nothing better to do with yourselves than try to play pretend moderator?
If i had to add something to the list of wants, it would be texture mapping with some intellegence behind it...intentionally warped/mis-sized textures are unexcusable in the game world, but the dev team seems to insist on them...
A community that isnt full of self-righteous pricks would be a great start. You realize that if nobody ever started duped threads that there would literally be like 5 topics with 400 pages in them, and nobody would ever read through it, and it would actually be less accesable, right?
Do you guys have nothing better to do with yourselves than try to play pretend moderator?
If i had to add something to the list of wants, it would be texture mapping with some intellegence behind it...intentionally warped/mis-sized textures are unexcusable in the game world, but the dev team seems to insist on them...
Even then, its not part of the core, and by default, will be seperated from the core, making it ingerently limited.
Look to FPSs for guidance here...quake, unreal, tribes (the best as far as scripting goes). They all are built around being able to be scripted. Mods created, all kinds of useful client and server-side tools...and none of them have had a "cheating problem" associated with the scripting stuff...so thats obviously not a reason to ignore that segment...
I need to learn more about insim...I've used a few of the tools created for it, but never delved in on my own. I may be speaking out of my league, but I can't imagine it's as good as having access to the core a scripting engine would provide.
Look to FPSs for guidance here...quake, unreal, tribes (the best as far as scripting goes). They all are built around being able to be scripted. Mods created, all kinds of useful client and server-side tools...and none of them have had a "cheating problem" associated with the scripting stuff...so thats obviously not a reason to ignore that segment...
I need to learn more about insim...I've used a few of the tools created for it, but never delved in on my own. I may be speaking out of my league, but I can't imagine it's as good as having access to the core a scripting engine would provide.
A scripting engine in LFS would be an end-all to a huge number of "wishlist" items... I still can't believe that as mature as LFS is, and as "community based" as it is... there is no internal scripting engine...it baffles me...
...but that's another thread...
...but that's another thread...
Actually, most race cars DON'T have smooth underbodies...they did for a bit, then they realized that's a terrible idea...remember the Mercedies and the other (Porsche, Jag? ... i forget) lifting off on a straight piece of track and doing backwards flips?
Open wheel cars still use smooth bottom plates, but thats's because the car's arent shaped like normal cars...which have a profile similar to a wing...and a smooth bottom promotes more airflow under the car, meaning air under is moving much faster than the air over the car...which is what gives a wing lift...all you have to do at that point it give it a positive angle of incidence (lift the nose just a bit) and you have a flying car...
I think a modeled version would be great...and would look nice...doesnt have to be super detailed (think something like the bottom of a hot-wheels car) ... but just make it look like something more than absolute black...
Open wheel cars still use smooth bottom plates, but thats's because the car's arent shaped like normal cars...which have a profile similar to a wing...and a smooth bottom promotes more airflow under the car, meaning air under is moving much faster than the air over the car...which is what gives a wing lift...all you have to do at that point it give it a positive angle of incidence (lift the nose just a bit) and you have a flying car...
I think a modeled version would be great...and would look nice...doesnt have to be super detailed (think something like the bottom of a hot-wheels car) ... but just make it look like something more than absolute black...
As to the wall vs sand trap...I prefer the walls.
I've been wrecked more by people getting a tire off on exit, hooking the car, overcorrecting and ending up 90 degress to me across the track...then I have being wreck by somone hitting a wall, most of the time people just stick it in the wall and slide along it...
I've been wrecked more by people getting a tire off on exit, hooking the car, overcorrecting and ending up 90 degress to me across the track...then I have being wreck by somone hitting a wall, most of the time people just stick it in the wall and slide along it...
A possible solution?
I was thinking of this last night...I actually fell asleep thinking about it...and I had not even seen this post yet...just something that crossed my mind.
But here's what I came up with for a way to make the setups work.
It would actually have to be built into LFS at the core, not just using insim.
Basically, someone would first create the setup and the "rules" for the setup.
The rules would actually be part of the .set file. When that set file is loaded, unchangeable options would be grayed out, or options with specific choices/ranges would only allow those things to be changed. If you wanted, you could change them (after a warning), but it would update the rules section of the set file, so it would no longer be validated as the same setup.
As far as in-game checking. A hash could be created based off of the rules (not the entire set) and sent to the server. The server could then verify that the hash is correct based off of the rules it is setup for.
One thing about this idea that makes it nice, is since the server is just checking a hash, it could easily and quickly check against multiple rule sets. In a kart league i raced in when I was younger, you could chose between 3 gear sets, but based on those gear sets, your tire choice was dependant. So, you could choose a higher top-end gear set, but you would be forced to use a harder compound tire, and the trade-off was a faster top end, but reduced cornering...and it produced great races (less "clone-car" feeling). So a league could publish multiple rule sets, and check to make sure you are using one of them...
This way, you get the best of both worlds.
You can verify the setup server side based on the rules, and the actual setup is never sent (so you don't have to worry if you're the kind to worry about your setup being stolen). It also reduces bandwidth and CPU cycles needed to verify it.
It would need one last failsafe. Every time the setup is loaded, it would need to check that the actual setup is in compliance with the rules (so it couldn't be hacked, by someone externally changing the file without changing the rules section..but that would be a very fast, client-side only check.
But here's what I came up with for a way to make the setups work.
It would actually have to be built into LFS at the core, not just using insim.
Basically, someone would first create the setup and the "rules" for the setup.
The rules would actually be part of the .set file. When that set file is loaded, unchangeable options would be grayed out, or options with specific choices/ranges would only allow those things to be changed. If you wanted, you could change them (after a warning), but it would update the rules section of the set file, so it would no longer be validated as the same setup.
As far as in-game checking. A hash could be created based off of the rules (not the entire set) and sent to the server. The server could then verify that the hash is correct based off of the rules it is setup for.
One thing about this idea that makes it nice, is since the server is just checking a hash, it could easily and quickly check against multiple rule sets. In a kart league i raced in when I was younger, you could chose between 3 gear sets, but based on those gear sets, your tire choice was dependant. So, you could choose a higher top-end gear set, but you would be forced to use a harder compound tire, and the trade-off was a faster top end, but reduced cornering...and it produced great races (less "clone-car" feeling). So a league could publish multiple rule sets, and check to make sure you are using one of them...
This way, you get the best of both worlds.
You can verify the setup server side based on the rules, and the actual setup is never sent (so you don't have to worry if you're the kind to worry about your setup being stolen). It also reduces bandwidth and CPU cycles needed to verify it.
It would need one last failsafe. Every time the setup is loaded, it would need to check that the actual setup is in compliance with the rules (so it couldn't be hacked, by someone externally changing the file without changing the rules section..but that would be a very fast, client-side only check.
There is a perfect system... Humans. We're pretty good at cognitive judgments like that
.Even your system has a failure point. I wrecked someone bad today, caused by another harmless incident. Coming up to T1 at AS Club, we were 3 wide, the 2 guys outside were passing me (i was staying way over, letting them by) They wrecked, and pushed me to the right. I was in the grass, no chance of stopping from full speed, so into the corner i slide at 100 mph or so... t-bone the guy that was in front of us...he was mad at first, but then heard me (and the 2 others backing me up) and was cool.
I let off my brakes at the end before i hit him, because hitting someone hard with the nose settled from braking almost always launches them, if you let off, alot of times it just becomes a horizontal slam.
So, I was:
1) going about 50-60mph faster than him
2) no brakes at impact
3) off racing line
4) hit him at 90 degrees to the side
I failed all of those points.
Its a close system, and that kind of wreck isn't common, but if 1 in 100 people who get booted shouldn't have, then its a failure and shouldn't be used. Thats why I wont go into CTRA servers anymore, the passenger bug means i have to change perfectly good setups for no reason at all... so the system does absolutely nothing good, but caused problems for people. Collateral damage with not enough possible good to justify it.
since most races online are so short, you can get away with it.
Try running one of those rediculous camber setups for a full fuel tank run...
Try running one of those rediculous camber setups for a full fuel tank run...
There is no way to detect it, period.
How does a computer, through math alone, determine the difference between...
1) Wrecker never touches the brakes, slams you in a hairpin...
vs
2) Wrecker waits off track, then pull in front of you, causing you to hit him.
vs
3) You spin, pull saftely out of the racing line as cars pass, and a wrecker intentionally nails you.
In case 1, the wrecker is the much faster driver.
In case 2, the wrecker is the slower driver
In case 3, the wrecker is the faster driver, but how do you know hes a wrecker or not, he could have just started a pass and not seen you till he pulled out from behind someone.
There have been things like this in other games, and heres what always happens. Some wreckers get kicked, yes. Alot of honest races would too. Even the spin detector, ive been spectated before for clipping the wall coming out of the chicane at SO.
LFS needs to implement a global "rating" system. Not a points system like some of the leagues do. A rating system, based on wrecks, restarts, etc... and allow servers to set ranges of ratings... That way, people end up playing with people of their caliber. The catch to a system like this is that LFS server controller would have to look at servers, recognize that everyone is set very high and there is no races for low-rank drivers, and would have to let them temp have a higher rank, so they could race...still better than nothing though. Either way, if you were bad enough, you would have a hard time finding a fun race.
Another option is "conditional ghosting" ... ie, your closing rate on a car is too high, you pass through them. Good racers are rarely going to hit another racer at high speed difference, so for those of you serious enough to complain about the realism(lack of) of ghosting would never be effected by it... That way, the guy that plows turn 1 cant ruin the race for others...or the guy that pulls out in front of the leaders cant either...
Creative ideas are needed for these kinds of problems, as computers cannot make objective descisions.
How does a computer, through math alone, determine the difference between...
1) Wrecker never touches the brakes, slams you in a hairpin...
vs
2) Wrecker waits off track, then pull in front of you, causing you to hit him.
vs
3) You spin, pull saftely out of the racing line as cars pass, and a wrecker intentionally nails you.
In case 1, the wrecker is the much faster driver.
In case 2, the wrecker is the slower driver
In case 3, the wrecker is the faster driver, but how do you know hes a wrecker or not, he could have just started a pass and not seen you till he pulled out from behind someone.
There have been things like this in other games, and heres what always happens. Some wreckers get kicked, yes. Alot of honest races would too. Even the spin detector, ive been spectated before for clipping the wall coming out of the chicane at SO.
LFS needs to implement a global "rating" system. Not a points system like some of the leagues do. A rating system, based on wrecks, restarts, etc... and allow servers to set ranges of ratings... That way, people end up playing with people of their caliber. The catch to a system like this is that LFS server controller would have to look at servers, recognize that everyone is set very high and there is no races for low-rank drivers, and would have to let them temp have a higher rank, so they could race...still better than nothing though. Either way, if you were bad enough, you would have a hard time finding a fun race.
Another option is "conditional ghosting" ... ie, your closing rate on a car is too high, you pass through them. Good racers are rarely going to hit another racer at high speed difference, so for those of you serious enough to complain about the realism(lack of) of ghosting would never be effected by it... That way, the guy that plows turn 1 cant ruin the race for others...or the guy that pulls out in front of the leaders cant either...
Creative ideas are needed for these kinds of problems, as computers cannot make objective descisions.
It looks extremely stupid for grown men to be complaining of such things.
Why is everyone complaining about this...
I think their stupid, i dont use them. However, something I find more stupid is the constant complaining about it.
Its not a performance boost.
It doesn't affect you.
Get over it.
If thats enough to distract you, you're not really doing so well at focusing in the first place. I dont even see the point of helmets and suits. Even in the open-wheel cars, I often dont even notice the helmets. I've been watching replays before and thought "he had a bright pink helmet the whole time?" ... i just dont notice. I look at the car, not the driver...
I think their stupid, i dont use them. However, something I find more stupid is the constant complaining about it.
Its not a performance boost.
It doesn't affect you.
Get over it.
If thats enough to distract you, you're not really doing so well at focusing in the first place. I dont even see the point of helmets and suits. Even in the open-wheel cars, I often dont even notice the helmets. I've been watching replays before and thought "he had a bright pink helmet the whole time?" ... i just dont notice. I look at the car, not the driver...
I think something like this would be awesome if done the way he was (and i was) thinking about it.
I think it would be a great addition if the devs allowed you to create something that ran client-side and connected to the main lfs server...that way, its centralized and works across multiple servers...
But great idea and execution!
I think it would be a great addition if the devs allowed you to create something that ran client-side and connected to the main lfs server...that way, its centralized and works across multiple servers...
But great idea and execution!
Stop. Bumping.
This thread died 3 months ago, let it go...bumping your own thread for attention is lame.
This thread died 3 months ago, let it go...bumping your own thread for attention is lame.
Couldnt get picture angles to do it justice...
so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDTZPi0QGs
the jerkyness is just me trying to navigate in the shift-u mode
so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDTZPi0QGs
the jerkyness is just me trying to navigate in the shift-u mode
setup field seems to be down 80% of the time for me...usually i can just keep trying to hit it and eventually it will work
luckily, there is a US based setup site coming soon, with more than just WR sets.
luckily, there is a US based setup site coming soon, with more than just WR sets.
If you just give it a shot, you might not mind the borders of the monitors being there...
i have mine split like that...seemed really bad at first, but now, once i get racing, i dont even think about it...your brain will just "adjust" it for you... think of it like a crack in a windshield. At first its annoying, then you just forget its there...
i have mine split like that...seemed really bad at first, but now, once i get racing, i dont even think about it...your brain will just "adjust" it for you... think of it like a crack in a windshield. At first its annoying, then you just forget its there...
If i was on someone else's name...I wouldn't get online either...wouldn't want to wreck someone and start stuff on an account thats not mine...
Not to mention my first 6 months were offline...i wanted to make damned sure i understood the car control in the game to the point that I wouldn't be a hazard to anyone else.
You guys are being real pricks...
2 things.
1) You cant prove he is doing anything illegal. That should be enough to shut your trap.
2) Regardless of #1, its not your damned business. Its between him and the devs (and the mods). Let them sort it out if there is a problem. Regardless of what hes doing, your experience isn't changed in any way. You aren't harmed, or kept from playing, or anything. Your just being dicks for the sake of being dicks.
Last edited by rjm1982, .
The word **** doesn't even begin to describe you...but its the closest one I can come up with.
Guilty until proven innocent, eh?
nice...
Actually, LFS is a ... ready for this? SIMULATOR.
Period.
Simulators by definition aren't limited to one thing..
Its a physics simulator, its an aerodynamics simulator, its a traction simulator, its a weather simulator (to some degree), its a thermal simulator (tire heat), its a damage simulator...
You can't even simulate "racing" ... racing is an activity, not a property. You cant simulate activities...you can only simulate properties. By simulating many properties, you can allow for an activity to take place.
What -IS- racing, really? Is it people fighting door to door? Is it time trials? Is it hotlapping and trying to beat another person? Is it the former, just trying to beat yourself? Racing is an abstract concept. Are you racing to be the one to finish 10 laps, or are you racing to see who can turn a lap of a certain speed first?
LFS simulates all aspects needed for the activity of drifting...so why not drift?
I know none of you were really knocking drifting so much...but damnit, It's tiring seeing someone say "LFS is a RACING sim" every damned day.
Period.
Simulators by definition aren't limited to one thing..
Its a physics simulator, its an aerodynamics simulator, its a traction simulator, its a weather simulator (to some degree), its a thermal simulator (tire heat), its a damage simulator...
You can't even simulate "racing" ... racing is an activity, not a property. You cant simulate activities...you can only simulate properties. By simulating many properties, you can allow for an activity to take place.
What -IS- racing, really? Is it people fighting door to door? Is it time trials? Is it hotlapping and trying to beat another person? Is it the former, just trying to beat yourself? Racing is an abstract concept. Are you racing to be the one to finish 10 laps, or are you racing to see who can turn a lap of a certain speed first?
LFS simulates all aspects needed for the activity of drifting...so why not drift?
I know none of you were really knocking drifting so much...but damnit, It's tiring seeing someone say "LFS is a RACING sim" every damned day.
Sorry, accusation is pretty much a binary term. You are accusing someone, or you aren't. "Hinting at it" is like saying "kind-of dead".
You're making a judgment you have no grounds to make, as you have not the slightest shred of evidence that hes doing anything wrong. I played LFS on a friends computer for a while before I bought it...that's what got me interested. To say that hes lying ... is just retarded, not to mention mean spirited and hateful.
And by your logic...since its a public forum and you have the right to say what you wish to the OP, then everyone else has the right to tear into you for saying it, your argument nullifies itself.
I think it would be better on the SO short...
What do i know, though?
I was there before the filming, and power went out about 15 min to start...and stayed off for 6 hours...you never know just how a.d.d. you are untill all of your toys stop working.
What do i know, though?
I was there before the filming, and power went out about 15 min to start...and stayed off for 6 hours...you never know just how a.d.d. you are untill all of your toys stop working.
Remember, popping the curbs also puts some positive camber in the outside tires...
As far as which setup you would use, hopefull any server worth its weight would be nice and use race-s or hardtrack depending on the car. Those are pretty well balanced setups...
I don't see why it can't be done already though. If the CTRA servers can see a pasenger...you would think that they can get your setup as it is... then again, the passenger detection is buggy as hell...
I don't see why it can't be done already though. If the CTRA servers can see a pasenger...you would think that they can get your setup as it is... then again, the passenger detection is buggy as hell...
Wow, it took you a full 7 days to come up that with little pearl of wisdom?
Keep burying yourself, nobody takes you seriously anymore.
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