Don't over-react, folks.

The initial ruling merely overturned the exploitation license granted to the Spa circuit operators in 2007 to run events with no noise restrictions until 2026. The anti-nuisance group filed a complaint about granting of such a license around that time, and yesterday's ruling only pertains to the unrestricted nature of the license.

The decision has been appealed and suspended, and Spa is negotiating with the anti-nuisance group(s) to reach a compromise. The likely outcome is that a license will be granted with noise restrictions in place, like 95 dbl.

Best to check the real story before jumping down the gun barrel.

Thanks, BaSh0r and ACCAkut. I have to say, you guys must have a very tough time in spelling contests.

Quote from ATHome :

The more interesting series in Germany is in my opinion the VLN

I've only heard of the VLN from its Nordschleife endurance race. What does VLN stand for?

Quote from JJ72 :

To do this in his early 20's, I think it is actually quite an achievement.

I think it was more his father's doing, than his.

Piquet Senior was perhaps the most viral guy in F1 history, talking smack about Mansell's wife, then Senna's sexuality, trying to punch out Salazar (when Salazar was wearing a helmet, LOL).

Mate, at least post thumbnails only and write a big NOT SAFE FOR WORK at the top.

Ugh!

Nordschliefe + less aero + another manufacturer = DTM good

Quote from Becky Rose :

Indycar #1, Indycar #2 (it has another name, nobody outide of America cares what it is)

Indycar #1 = IRL
Indycar #2 = Indy Lights

Grosjean had better not crash...

Quote from Intrepid :

Ron Dennis - check
Flavio Briatore - check
Luca Montezemolo -

Wonder who's next in the firing line? All very odd dontya think

Only a fool would mess with Luca Montezemolo. The guy is far more powerful than Ron Dennis or Flavio Briatore, by several orders of magnitude. He's also a few levels above Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone in business and political arenas too.

Last edited by samjh, Mon 21 Sep 2009, 14:37.

Pulling over to let your team mate win, or attempting to exploit the rules, are completely different to deliberately crashing and causing a huge safety hazard for everyone.

Quote :

Given that standing up for what's right against normal companies does your career no good, even when you're completely in the right and what you're being asked to do is actually illegal, is bad enough.

Employees refuse to follow illegal instructions all the time, and suffer nothing more than a slap on the wrist. It's usually the borderline cases which cause problems. In Piquet's case, the illegality of the scheme was not a borderline case, it was clearly illegal and immoral.

I think I've said it before: employees are under no obligation to follow illegal instructions from their employers. In fact, employees shouldn't follow instructions which they know are illegal, because the law will not protect an employee who knowingly commits an illegal act. You're better off suffering a short-term loss and changing your job, than to go along with it and potentially ruin your life.

Quote from richo :

I would be giving Flav the arse if he was my manager , this could be the start of a witch hunt into Flav's other activities..

Like his directorship at an English football club? Yes, it could put a damper on some of his other activities.

Quote from Kalev EST :

That doesn't necessarily mean that Renault is going to be kicked out of F1. Renault will probably claim they didn't know anything about this and Briatore, Symonds, Piquet were acting on their own (which imo could be true) and that they have sacked the guilty people. They might get away with a fine or a reduction of points in the constructors championship or something like that.

That is entirely possible, even probable.

Quote from BlueFlame :

You know what needs to happen in F1? A really big crash, that one of the drivers stops to help. I just don't know if you would see that now. Like when Senna held Erik Comas' head after he crashed at Spa in 1991

Like David Purley at Roger Williamson's crash? (link to video - warning: graphic)

I think these days, drivers probably assume that their crashed colleague is OK. F1 safety is so good these days, combined with the desire not to give up the race, drivers have very little incentive to pull over and render help.

Quote from SamH :

The "anything you fail to say now but which you later rely on..." is peculiar to the version of the Miranda Rights used in the UK. We call them Miranda Rights these days, but it's an American term. It's worth noting that the European Court won't uphold that presumption of guilt based on silence or refusal to comment, and ruled against the UK government on the matter in 1996.

The right to remain silent existed in the UK from the 13th century until recently. You still have the right, but if you're being tried in the UK, your silence can be treated as if alluding to guilt. Atrocious really, how much of a beating our rights have taken in the last decade alone.

Fortunately for Americans, the Miranda warning is derived from their Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution, the right against self-incrimination (Miranda v Arizona 384 U.S. 436 (1966)). Unfortunately for those in the UK and its former colonies, it is usually derived from common law. The government can quite easily quash it via legislative change, if they want (as the English did in 1994).

Quote from gezmoor :

That is not good. He isn't even denying any direct accusations of his own behaviour. Why on earth would he do that??, unless his sole objective is to be able to say he "didn't lie" to the enquiry??

Probably advice from his legal advisers.

The problem with this sort of enquiry is that Renault probably has no full access to the evidence that has been presented against them. Therefore, any kind of legal advice is going to be highly conservative to the extent that Symonds was probably advised to say nothing about the meeting or the conspiracy accusation.

The onus of proof lies in the accusers. The old trick, "it will be better for you if you tell us now rather than later", is rubbish. It's a cop trick used to elicit false confessions under duress.

I'm not suggesting that Symonds is definitely innocent, but he has the right to such a presumption unless proven otherwise. The problem with the WMSC or stewards' inquiry is that the FIA takes the role of both prosecutor and judge. There is no fairness in such a system.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

For now...mwahahahahahaha! :evil:

The past two races have been agonising for me. It's freaking hard to keep the #1 spot, especially with the cars being so unpredictable now!

Sigh. If only Hamilton had not crashed...

Still, #1.

Quote from J@tko :

I see a 3rd:

1. Nelson is a shit driver
   
2. He will never work near F1 or any high end motorsports again
   

Nelson is only shit by F1 standards. He almost won GP2, and is a former British F3 champion. He's quite a handy driver, well within international touring car or sports car standards.

As for working near F1 or any high end motorsports, I'm afraid you're right. With this accusation, he's pretty much dashed his hopes of ever being hired by a top-end team.

Submit that photo to The Sun. It will make the front page.

Hamilton Takes Sutil's "Pole"!
Raikkonen Rues Lack of Development

The Force India one looks like a game console steering wheel. I reckon I could have a go at that.

Quote from DevilDare :

Nah - Kimi will appear out of nowhere and punt him off

Maybe Sutil needs one of these stuck to the back of his car:

Last race, Fisichella. This race, Sutil? This is going to be a very interesting qualifying. I'm having flash-backs of Vettel winning it last year in the STR. If Sutil get P1 and wins the race, he could just end up as the new wunderkind.

It would seem to be a "no comment, wait and see" interview. But between the lines, there are hints that he has a lot of prejudice against Renault, namely Flavio Briatore, and would like to see him taken down in the same fashion as Ron Dennis.

Budgets won't be a problem with the V8s, since the cars are comparatively low-tech (they've only recently introduced sequential gear boxes!).

I don't think there is any chance of the V8s going completely international. It will be primarily based in Australia and (to a lesser extent) New Zealand , with some overseas events for promotional purposes.

I've just read that WMSC decisions cannot be appealed to the ICA without the FIA President's approval. There is no chance of that happening with Max Mosley at the wheel (he hates Briatore). This explains why Briatore has commenced his "blackmail" proceedings in the French courts, since the FIA and its systems are governed by French laws and can be overruled there.

Quote from dawguk :

On the same note, this doesn't mean we aren't allowed to use our brains. Exactly why is it rubbish? You'd do well to heed your own advice, especially as we aren't pretending to know all of the facts

There is a difference between using one's brains to form an opinion, and stating an opinion without any qualifying statement as though it is a fact, which is what you did. I do apologise for calling it rubbish though. It was a rush-of-blood-to-the-head moment.

Just personally, a pet hate of mine is when people who are accused of doing something are presumed to be guilty without adequate proof. I noticed this tendency in jury duty (which was alarming), in other dealings with the legal system, and investigative work. It annoys the crap out of me.

Quote from dawguk :

Intentionally? It certainly wouldn't help his cause if his bosses WEREN'T aware of it. Him crashing intentionally would only benefit him if it was planned.

Not necessarily. It would benefit him if he planted an idea about exploiting it to his superiors. He doesn't even have to get their approval. Just drop the hint, and rely on Briatore being greedy enough to let it pass by when events transpire into a positive outcome.

Quote from dawguk :

There is of course the possibility that he crashed because he wanted to piss his team off, because Briatore was treating him like shit. Although that just doesn't make sense.

Piquet has a history of mouthing off without considering the consequences. Sometimes people who have a tendency to shoot from the hips end up crossing the line and actually do the deed. Does Piquet have that sort of temperament? I think he does, but that is something the WMSC will need to consider when weighing Piquet's credibility as a witness.

Quote from dawguk :

I hope the FIA are transparent with their findings, because they have history of covering things up, especially when money is changing hands, and Briatore has a lot of it.

As does Piquet's father. And as far as the FIA is concerned, Flavio Briatore does not have a good standing with them, particularly after the 2005 US GP saga. Briatore is not a popular bloke (no surprise there, judging by his ridiculous antics). The Piquet name, on the other hand, is good business material.

I don't trust the WMSC at all. It's a kangaroo court, IMHO. The ICA is much more trust-worthy, as the people who comprise it are distinguished jurists who are not under the FIA President's thumb.

Last edited by samjh, Fri 11 Sep 2009, 11:05.