After listening to V-sounds:
Right direction about everywhere. At full throttle the FXO develops a rather strange background noise above 6000 rpm (a difficult to discribe dissonance).
I'm a bit sad that the gearwhine is gone from the roadcars, but I guess that your concept of a roadcar is a completely stock roadcar and not a roadcar with removed everything-that-isn't-needed-on-a-racetrack. In that case the gearwhine volume is appropiate.
The LRF class is great soundwise. LX6, RAC, FZ50 - the best sounding cars of LFS.
Vain
Right direction about everywhere. At full throttle the FXO develops a rather strange background noise above 6000 rpm (a difficult to discribe dissonance).
I'm a bit sad that the gearwhine is gone from the roadcars, but I guess that your concept of a roadcar is a completely stock roadcar and not a roadcar with removed everything-that-isn't-needed-on-a-racetrack. In that case the gearwhine volume is appropiate.
The LRF class is great soundwise. LX6, RAC, FZ50 - the best sounding cars of LFS.
Vain
I was testing sound-equalizing in U35 via DirectX-software when U36 came out, so I had a good comparison.
And my opinion is that the FZ 50 has taken a huge leap in the right direction. It might be the very first time I have heard the hint of a functional engine in LFS! (There was a very slight roaring of an engine beneath that excessive mid-bandwith sound we already knew.)
It was pretty amazing, actually.
I liked the direction most other cars have taken too, and I'd appreciate it a lot if future patches would continue to do so.
Please consider spending one complete week of the new year only comparing real in-car footage to LFS cars until you get the dimensions of all involved sound-components right for each car.
Vain
And my opinion is that the FZ 50 has taken a huge leap in the right direction. It might be the very first time I have heard the hint of a functional engine in LFS! (There was a very slight roaring of an engine beneath that excessive mid-bandwith sound we already knew.)
It was pretty amazing, actually.
I liked the direction most other cars have taken too, and I'd appreciate it a lot if future patches would continue to do so.
Please consider spending one complete week of the new year only comparing real in-car footage to LFS cars until you get the dimensions of all involved sound-components right for each car.
Vain
Actually by now I'm quite in favor of the new sound system. The improvements on the FXR show that it is capable of good sounds. Now please postpone christmas by a month so Scawen has enough time to work on good sounds for all cars. That'd also give me more time to buy christmas presents.
Vain
Vain
It doesn't really depend on how much torque is being send through the gearbox. Rather wether it is in power or coast mode. So while going downhill you can put 10% gas on and it's almost silent, you only hear the diff, final drive and the engine (which is the loudest by far). But at 12% gas the gearbox is suddenly very loud.
(Experience from a stripped car without all the carpets and sound dampening materials. Car was a trans-axle, so the gearbox was only covered by a thin sheet of metal.)
How complex is the gearsound simulation? Does it have several parts? I didn't try out clutching and declutching while coasting downhill, but in real cars there are several soundsources involved.
(neutral: No noticableable sound, only final drive, engine to loud to hear that
gear engaged, clutch engaged: synchonized cogs produce sound
gear engaged, clutch disengaged, no throttle: sound increases, gearbox is coasting
gear engaged, clutch disengaged, more gas: sound gets loud, gearbox in power mode)
* I have absolutely no clue wether I used the terms coasting and power correctly. But I should have managed to make myself understandable.
@mrodgers: U33 to U34 was 1.1 mb, if I remember correctly.
Vain
Thanks for pointing that out, BBT. I attached the image to the post above.
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Vain
Why 'tiny delay'?
Each work cycle is 60° of crankshaft rotation away. Thus each time distance between each cycle is constant. Thus I don't understand why you use the term "tiny". In relation to what? All time distances are equal.
A quick search gave this table of a flat 6 engine.
red = work
Light red = eject
light blue = take in
blue = compress
Each line is for one cyliner. 1&4, 2&5 and 3&6 are across.
[Edit] * V8 engines need some discussion, because of Crossplane versus flatplane V8s.
Vain
Last edited by Vain, .
At least U30 will still be compatible with V, yes?
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I've never heard of such a thing either - seems unlogical from an engineering point of view, because you want to decrease vibrations in the crankshaft to achieve high revs. Until you made that point I was guessing that the right and left bank of the flat 6 engine were sharing the same combustion sounds in LFS.
(Which isn't senseful either, but it would have fitted the complexity of LFS's current engine sound simulation.)
[Edit] Could this be the reason why the BF1 sounds as if it was running at a lot lower revs? Just a thought I had 5 seconds ago.
Vain
@Andreas Grauel: Like your reply?
About the sounds:
Is it planned that any part of the engine sounds will be simulated in the future?
I'm speaking about the audible influences of manifold, exhaust pipes, muffler, tailpipe, own frequency of the engine block, valve timing etc. ?
I also noticed that when I use a force feedback H-shifter with simulated keypresses for the gears I get a 'pling' sound every gearchange as if I hit an unassigned button.
(Yes, exactly the same. Not similar. They are identical.)
Vain
About the sounds:
Is it planned that any part of the engine sounds will be simulated in the future?
I'm speaking about the audible influences of manifold, exhaust pipes, muffler, tailpipe, own frequency of the engine block, valve timing etc. ?
I also noticed that when I use a force feedback H-shifter with simulated keypresses for the gears I get a 'pling' sound every gearchange as if I hit an unassigned button.
(Yes, exactly the same. Not similar. They are identical.)
Vain
Well, 45% of all people who voted think the same. I mean, we all came here because we liked LFS. We enjoyed it. And 45% of those people, who are severely biased pro-LFS and pro-Scawen, say that the new sounds suck.
I don't even want to know how the figures would look in an unbiased community.
Vain
1. Yes, LFS's approach has the potential to sound better than sample sounds. Estimated time of arrival: An optimistic guess would be 2009.
2. I found a solution to the new sounds: Switch them off.
Just take off your headphones or switch off your sound system. I tried it. It made me a lot more consistant, because my head didn't expect the car's sound to behave realistically anymore.
Vain
2. I found a solution to the new sounds: Switch them off.
Just take off your headphones or switch off your sound system. I tried it. It made me a lot more consistant, because my head didn't expect the car's sound to behave realistically anymore.
Vain
What it actually needs is an engine added to it. Currently there's just an area of combustion floating in mid-air.
That's why it sounds so hollow and uniform. There is no manifold, no engine block, no exhaust pipe, no muffler, no tailpipe. The sound analysis shows that pretty clearly.
Vain
Some more sound analysis. This time taken under different conditions:
Car flipped to the roof, no wind, 7000 rpm. But I forgot to disengage the gear. The results are obvious enough anyway. I wrote the numbers of the firing cylinders and the names of the car.
Like a sine-wave, I told you. Interesting how especially the XRT felt dead boring to listen to. This is the reason why.
Vain
Car flipped to the roof, no wind, 7000 rpm. But I forgot to disengage the gear. The results are obvious enough anyway. I wrote the numbers of the firing cylinders and the names of the car.
Like a sine-wave, I told you. Interesting how especially the XRT felt dead boring to listen to. This is the reason why.
Vain
As said, I didn't make the sounds, I just opened the previously posted FZ50 vs 911 GT3.mp3 in audacity and took screenshots of section that had approximately the same speed.
But yes, the FZ5 shot was with wind sounds, just as the GT3 shot (obviously, duh).
The situation was when accelerating at velocity of some 80km/h (rough estimate, might be wrong by 50%!), so tyre sounds aren't as much of an influence as when accelerating at 30km/h, while wind isn't yet too loud.
Vain
Well, I postulated that LFS's sounds aren't much more interesting than a sine-wave. I thought so because the sounds seem increadbily dampened. But I had no proof beside the feelin in my ear.
Thus I quickly started audacity and compared the FZ50 to the 911 GT3 from the video posted earlier. I picked sound-positions of similar speed and made a comparison of the two waves at the same zoom-factor. Same displacement, same engine layout. Here's the picture. But really, it's not about the specifics of the sound sources. It just shows how far away LFS is.
I suggest everyone to load up the file in audacity. The picture of the waves tells so much about what LFS lacks...
Compared to the GT3 the LFS sounds really do look as interesting as a sine wave.
Vain
Thus I quickly started audacity and compared the FZ50 to the 911 GT3 from the video posted earlier. I picked sound-positions of similar speed and made a comparison of the two waves at the same zoom-factor. Same displacement, same engine layout. Here's the picture. But really, it's not about the specifics of the sound sources. It just shows how far away LFS is.
I suggest everyone to load up the file in audacity. The picture of the waves tells so much about what LFS lacks...
Compared to the GT3 the LFS sounds really do look as interesting as a sine wave.
Vain
You recieved an extra unlock. Everyone did.
@Sounds: I think I got the right words for it:
LFS dampens the "wrrrrrrrooom" away to a "mmmmmmmmuummmmmummmummmm". I wouldn't be surprised if LFS's engine sounds looked pretty much like a simple sine-wave.
By the way the best sounding car I ever heard in my life was at the Nurby in the pits of the GP track (I was allowed as a racing team member), and there was an old Jaguar V8 standing there *without a muffler*. There was basically nothing between me and the spark plug except 5 meters of air. It was absolutely georgeous. I have never heard such a great sound in my life.
It was unbearably loud, but I didn't want to miss anything of it. I would rather have turned deaf. It would've been worth it.
When that monster blew past the pit-straight it was - well, that's where words stop being able to describe how good something is.
Vain
@Hurts2bStock: What you heard in a kart was a motorbike gearbox. A H-Gate gearbox makes only a very small sound when you put in a gear, because the mechanism is totally different.
@Sounds:
1. Where are the higher frequencies? I remember the sound of my little race-prepped 2.5L I-4 and it had more higher frequencies when you listened to it through two thick walls at idle than the XRT at 7000 rpm.
Death to the dampening! We don't want dampening. Remove the muffler, remove the dampening materials from the chassis, remove the carpets, the passenger seats, remove everything that kills sound. From all cars. XRT, FXO, RB4, FZ5, all of them!
Really, the road cars are poor. Just remove the muffler. I don't want to listen to a road car on a racetrack, I want to listen to a roadcar that has been turned into a racecar for the track.
2. The tyre sounds get dampened away a bit too much. Right direction, a bit over the top. When I drove a normal street car on a racetrack I opened the windows a bit to hear the tyres better. Where are the open-windows keys?
3. Why does the gearbox whine loop near topspeed? There's a very noticeable loop, which was the reason why I stopped using CSR. This is most obvious in the UFR.
4. The FZR gets a
from me. There's a nice tone to it's engine sound that's quite similar to real cars of that type. The FZ5 would also get that opinion from me if the sound wasn't dampened away.
Vain
@Sounds:
1. Where are the higher frequencies? I remember the sound of my little race-prepped 2.5L I-4 and it had more higher frequencies when you listened to it through two thick walls at idle than the XRT at 7000 rpm.
Death to the dampening! We don't want dampening. Remove the muffler, remove the dampening materials from the chassis, remove the carpets, the passenger seats, remove everything that kills sound. From all cars. XRT, FXO, RB4, FZ5, all of them!
Really, the road cars are poor. Just remove the muffler. I don't want to listen to a road car on a racetrack, I want to listen to a roadcar that has been turned into a racecar for the track.
2. The tyre sounds get dampened away a bit too much. Right direction, a bit over the top. When I drove a normal street car on a racetrack I opened the windows a bit to hear the tyres better. Where are the open-windows keys?
3. Why does the gearbox whine loop near topspeed? There's a very noticeable loop, which was the reason why I stopped using CSR. This is most obvious in the UFR.
4. The FZR gets a
from me. There's a nice tone to it's engine sound that's quite similar to real cars of that type. The FZ5 would also get that opinion from me if the sound wasn't dampened away.Vain
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Well, according to Heisenberg's law the washing machine should constantly generate socks and anti-socks at the border of it's event-horizon.
(Because the energy at the border can't be zero, thus particles and anti-particles constantly recombinate and come into existance, and if you are lucky the anti-sock falls beyond the event horizon, while the sock emerges from the washing machine.)
I feel an experiment coming on!
Vain
(Because the energy at the border can't be zero, thus particles and anti-particles constantly recombinate and come into existance, and if you are lucky the anti-sock falls beyond the event horizon, while the sock emerges from the washing machine.)
I feel an experiment coming on!
Vain
As soon as you don't place a symmetrical object with it's axis of symmetry in the position of the axis of rotation of the drum and the contained air, there will be a component of the wind resistance force that does not only rotate the object, but also moves it's CoG.
So as long as we don't have theorical scientific parameters the object will not be able to maintain it's position in the center. If the object's CoG isn't in the center there needs to be centripetal force pointing towards the center to maintain it's distance to the axis of rotation of the drum. But the forces caused by wind resistance are orthogonal to the radius of the drum (because the air circulates together with the drum). The wind resistance thus accelerates the object orthogonally to the radius of the drum.
The important note is that the forces by wind resistance aren't pointed towards the center. If there is no such force then there isn't a centripetal force to make the object move in a perfect circle (e.g. to maintain it's distance to the rotation axis/center of the drum). Thus it's inertia forces the object to the outside (or rather, there is no force that corrects it trajectory to stay near the center), in a spiral movement, due to the direction of the forces of wind resistance.
If I wouldn't be sitting at my laptop I'd draw an image - touchpads suck.
Oh, and about air pressure:
The friction between the drum with the clothes and the air in the drum causes the air to be accelerated orthogonally to the radius of the drum. Again, there is no centripetal force and thus the air's inertia forces it to move away from the center of rotation of the drum. If the air in the drum travels to the outside, through the clothes to the outside of the drum then there's air missing in the center. Thus the pressure in the center of the drum is lower, which causes air from above (if the drum's axis of rotation is vertical) to be sucked it.
It's basically the principle of a turbocharger's impeller. Friction causes air to move spirally to the outside, which is an increase in kinetical energy which can be used to pressurize the air. Due to the air moving to the outside new air is being sucked in at the center.
Vain
So as long as we don't have theorical scientific parameters the object will not be able to maintain it's position in the center. If the object's CoG isn't in the center there needs to be centripetal force pointing towards the center to maintain it's distance to the axis of rotation of the drum. But the forces caused by wind resistance are orthogonal to the radius of the drum (because the air circulates together with the drum). The wind resistance thus accelerates the object orthogonally to the radius of the drum.
The important note is that the forces by wind resistance aren't pointed towards the center. If there is no such force then there isn't a centripetal force to make the object move in a perfect circle (e.g. to maintain it's distance to the rotation axis/center of the drum). Thus it's inertia forces the object to the outside (or rather, there is no force that corrects it trajectory to stay near the center), in a spiral movement, due to the direction of the forces of wind resistance.
If I wouldn't be sitting at my laptop I'd draw an image - touchpads suck.
Oh, and about air pressure:
The friction between the drum with the clothes and the air in the drum causes the air to be accelerated orthogonally to the radius of the drum. Again, there is no centripetal force and thus the air's inertia forces it to move away from the center of rotation of the drum. If the air in the drum travels to the outside, through the clothes to the outside of the drum then there's air missing in the center. Thus the pressure in the center of the drum is lower, which causes air from above (if the drum's axis of rotation is vertical) to be sucked it.
It's basically the principle of a turbocharger's impeller. Friction causes air to move spirally to the outside, which is an increase in kinetical energy which can be used to pressurize the air. Due to the air moving to the outside new air is being sucked in at the center.
Vain
You can't deny that LFS's engines sound incredibly similar to typical B-8 engines, or Bee-turbocharged engines.
Vain
Centrifugal force can not be observed from the resting observer.
So standing outside of the washing machine you can not see the effects that the imaginary centrifugal force has.
Centrifugal force is what we imagin as the cause of acceleration caused by the oberserver accelerating. So if you sit in a car and drive around a corner you are being accelerated sideways. And all kinds of objects in the car move to the outside of the corner, relative to you. As an observer you conclude that there must have been a force pointing towards the outside of the corner. This imaginary force is caused by you, the observer, being accelerated. If you had been standing outside of the car you would have seen all objects but the driver reacting according to their inertia. You wouldn't have seen any strange acceleration and you wouldn't have needed to conclude a centrifugal force.
Standing beside the washing machine we can demand that you are not being accelerated (actually you are, as a part of the rotating earth). Thus the object in the washing machine can not appear to be moved by centrifugal force.
The forces that cause the object in the washing machine to move to the outside are caused by wind resistance. And a neglectable component of air pressure. I don't think your washing machine spins up that much.
Vain
So standing outside of the washing machine you can not see the effects that the imaginary centrifugal force has.
Centrifugal force is what we imagin as the cause of acceleration caused by the oberserver accelerating. So if you sit in a car and drive around a corner you are being accelerated sideways. And all kinds of objects in the car move to the outside of the corner, relative to you. As an observer you conclude that there must have been a force pointing towards the outside of the corner. This imaginary force is caused by you, the observer, being accelerated. If you had been standing outside of the car you would have seen all objects but the driver reacting according to their inertia. You wouldn't have seen any strange acceleration and you wouldn't have needed to conclude a centrifugal force.
Standing beside the washing machine we can demand that you are not being accelerated (actually you are, as a part of the rotating earth). Thus the object in the washing machine can not appear to be moved by centrifugal force.
The forces that cause the object in the washing machine to move to the outside are caused by wind resistance. And a neglectable component of air pressure. I don't think your washing machine spins up that much.
Vain
As far as I know all deals with real life companies weren't initiated by the devs. It was always either the company approaching the devs by itself, or a community member starting the relation.
So if you think the track is worth it (I'm a bit critical), then write them, introduce them to LFS and tell them that they'll get loads of free advertisment if they give the LFS devs the rights to make the track, or even some of the GPS-data of the track if they want to speed up the process.
It looks a bit like this track wants advertisment, and it looks as if they definitely have extensive digital data of the track available. Looks like a well planned track.
The Ascari KZ1 doesn't look bad either. Someone throw those peoples the link to liveforspeed.net please!
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So if you think the track is worth it (I'm a bit critical), then write them, introduce them to LFS and tell them that they'll get loads of free advertisment if they give the LFS devs the rights to make the track, or even some of the GPS-data of the track if they want to speed up the process.
It looks a bit like this track wants advertisment, and it looks as if they definitely have extensive digital data of the track available. Looks like a well planned track.
The Ascari KZ1 doesn't look bad either. Someone throw those peoples the link to liveforspeed.net please!
Vain
If I remember correctly the T3 had a flat-4 engine, mounted behind the rear axle, quite perfect for such a project.
The engine bay can however be increased in size into the inner room of the vehicle. Here's a small list of engines that were already fitted into T3s:
Vain
The engine bay can however be increased in size into the inner room of the vehicle. Here's a small list of engines that were already fitted into T3s:
Vain
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