Apply the brakes smooth and ONLY ease SLIGHTLY if they lock then ease off and then wind in power smooth. Never pump any pedal unless you want to end up in the wall

Never put your foot down further than it can take at any given time. The fastest laps are the ones with least drama. Normally they feel the slowest when you drive them

Also if you have to lift your foot to correct when putting down power it means you have put down power too early. This will also make you slower.

I am rough with my shifter and never think about how fragile it is while I race. I just bang it into the gear I want as I do IRL and no issues to date. Had mine since release, must have got lucky or some people must use it like a gorilla

Set the force in control panel to 101% and then 720deg lock in LFS and CP. Use wheel turn comp 1 in LFS and it will match the turn for all cars in LFS automatically.

Quote from Juls :

Unfortunately for me I have been doing everything on the other side of the line. For a long time my job has been to develop big GUIs for real-time trading client-server solution. The kind of stuff where dozens furiously clicking traders were connected through several stock exchanges through our poor GUI and generating all possible conflicting situations as they could interfere with each other in all possible asynchronous ways...woooohooooo

People from the server side looked soooo peaceful with their unit tests.

Thats why I hate the stuff that deals with humans. Those strange beings are so unpredictable. I like my cold hard logic mind space lol

Feel sorry for you. Sounds line you are too far down the line for a refactor to Model-View-Controller. Its a huge investment but sounds like it would pay off as you could test closer to the human level.

I know what a hot bed trading spaces can be. Spent a year contracting at Reuters

Quote from Ped7g :

6MB of sources vs 500 files ... sound to me not quite right Scawen, looks like your .cpp files are either a bit large or your comments in headers are huge.
Also 6MB is A LOT, I prefer to refactor my code a lot to have in the end short sources doing the same thing. (although not obfuscated just in the name of shortness)

Than again all these comments are pointless, as I haven't seen the LFS source, maybe my version of LFS would had 9MB and 300 files. (if it would be ever finished, and I'm afraid it would not, hehe )

As Bob says, the files are not that big. Depends on the logic in the code and what is common.

Also if you refactor your code so you have lots of code all doing the same thing you are doing it wrong Write each "thing" once. The more times you repeat code the more places you have to fix the same bug. Or is that not what you meant.

Last edited by Woz, Fri 4 Jul 2008, 13:33.

Quote from Juls :

The main problem with unit tests is how to use them with code giving graphical result.

It's pretty easy to make a unit test for parts of code doing precise things like numerical functions...but there is no easy way to do a unit test that will detect when your buttons are misaligned, or something is flickering, or something is hidden when you resize this or that, or combobox does not have the right behavior. Same problem with code using directx.

I sit below that line. All my work is web services and below, saves having to deal with human interaction. I am more what you call a bottom programmer

The guy doing all the human bits is using WPF which as you say is a nightmare to unit test.

I have done testing in interfaces before using the View/Presenter model so you test the presenter and the view code becomes a dumb display that is only responsible for pumping data into the view and triggering requests that come from the interface via the presenter. That is about as close to the display you can test and makes sure all your "functionality" works without a care about what it looks like.

There are nunit extensions for displays but they are just not worth it.

View Presenter also allows you to change the view and no effect your "real" code. It does take some extra bootstrap but well worth it imho.

Last edited by Woz, Fri 4 Jul 2008, 08:28.

Quote from wien :

That's really something that sucks about being a programmer. Most people really have no idea how much work goes into the stuff you do. Something that seems easy and trivial to them (because the visible impact is minimal) may be days/weeks/months of work behind the scenes.

<programmer-blues>I deal with this all the time when customers are shocked by the price I give them on what they see as minor changes. Graphics artists on the other hand can easily charge more since their work is immediately visible.</programmer-blues>

Yep, know what you mean. I am lead dev on a project at the mo that I have put about 1.5 man years into and has probably a total of 2.5 man year at present. We currently have about 1200 classes split between program objects and their related unit test objects.

Some people see software as something that is simple to change without knockon effects.

I must admit though that since using Nunit it lets you feel safe making changes in core areas as you soon see all the fail points when you have near 100% test coverage on your project.

Even so, small changes can still cost a huge amount in time and manpower required.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

As the title states, I need help with this problem.

Since I installed patch Z the only controller options in game I have are keyboard. It doesn't see my G25. I have no wheel options at all.

I assume your G25 still appears in the control panel. Have you tried a complete fresh install of LFS

Quote from Homeless_Drunk :

I've been using Vista since its release and have had 0 (ZERO) issues with it other than a few driver issues that are not even Microsoft's fault.

You have NEVER had to copy files over a lan then rotf.

There are well know and WELL reported issues with Vista file manipulation over a LAN and this has STILL not been resolved in SP1.

How the hell does MS expect companies to move to Vista when it will lock up explorer and climb up its own arse just trying to even look at a LAN based directory with more than a handful of files in it.

Please do not try to make out this issue does not exist. It does and if you want proof fly down to NZ and I will demo it for you or just google a little.

My XP box can read/write to the same LAN dir easy, vista locks the shell but 1 in 20 I might get a dir listing. This is what happens when people think its wise to clean room the Network stack again from scratch. It will take YEARS to get right again as is normal with complex sysstems.

Probably one of the many reasons for Intels COMPLETE rejection of Vista.

Google "vista lan hang" and you over 1 million results, do the same with "vista hand" and its over 5 million. That is a lot of results considering you are telling me Vista is 100% perfect lol.

As I said Vista has serious issues. Your use of LIMITED parts of the OS might not have shown them but do not pretend they are not there

Last edited by Woz, Thu 3 Jul 2008, 00:25.

If you are running Vista bump the ram up to 2Gb. Vista is nearly in swap at idle state with 1Gb

Scawen: With the XRR when I look left/right I get a small triangle appear as the view gets past about 50%.

Looks like fibreglass sort of texture.

This is on my Laptop with an ATI HD2600 gfx card

I will check in the other cars if I get a chance later

Quote from Sir moi 407 :

And I'm not saying to put all TBO in sequential...

No just ALL apart from the dull as dishwater FWD one

Quote from Sir moi 407 :

Cars with inline 4 around 2000ccc and 200horses still exist
Look at S2000 class in WRC Those cars are Sequential and the motors are nearly like TBO

I take it you do not own a G25 or have an H shifter then lol.

You will find HUGE resistance against the TBO cars being non H. That is what makes them fun to drive.

btw: Just looked, quiet a shock the C2 is real Seq. But as others have said, the TBO cars are old cars and would not have seq. Leave Seq for the newer cars that get added and leave the older cars alone. Many, myself included, preferred the GTRs with H as well

If you dont have a H pattern controller it does not effect you but many many people would be mighty p*ssed off if the TBO were not H

Quote from runeman :

No it cannot. Jakg, imagine trying to read 1-45 happening all in 1 second. you couldn't. I play alot of newer modern games around 45. and I don't see abit of lag.

Yep the eye can see FAR FAR more than 45fps lol. Where did you even get the 45 number from BTW. Lag has nothing to do with it btw lol. Yes 45 will feel stable but 120 will feel more fluid.

The faster the car you drive the more FPS you need to keep feeling fluid due to the distances moved between each frame.

For the OP. You are better locking your FPS around 60-70 tbh. What the eye really does notice is fluctuations in FPS. It will feel more solid locked at 60 than bouncing between 60 and 120.

Quote from Sir moi 407 :

As I said little cars like Citroen C2 or Audi A3 have it (and race cars too obviously)
So I don't see why XRT and RB4 can't be sequential

Do they really or are they just crappy slush boxes with gear select buttons like all the other "sequential" gearboxes on road cars.

The cars that do put these crappy solutions also put the up and down the wrong way round Back for down and forwards for up OMG how dumb. Even BWM put it the wrong way around so muppet road drivers don't get confused

Quote from DanielC :

It makes me laugh how people hate Vista so much. Personally I've been using it for almost a year and a half now, and I've never had any trouble with it. It's certainly a damn sight more stable than XP ever was. That said, I am using a 64 Bit version of Vista, which is more stable / reliable than the 32 Bit version. On recent hardware, Vista rules all, but if you have oldish hardware, it's a waste of time trying to use Vista, keep XP. People are just stuck in their XP ways, and fail to learn how to use / optimise Vista properly ...

More on topic, to see LFS updated to take advantage of DirectX 9 would be nice, but it's not the be all and end all. What I would like to see the most if LFS taking advantage of multiple CPU cores, as they are getting very common now a days. As for the PhysX side of things, Ageias PPU may be fairly dead, but the PhysX technology certainly isn't, especially now nVidia has taken it on. I dunno what advantage it would really bring to LFS, but it would be no harm to impliment some extra effects for those who have compatible hardware ...

Just my opinion ...

You might have got lucky with your given setup. As I said earlier, one of the MOST tech companies in the world today (Intel) with FULL access to the OS source code refuse to deploy it in the company. Currently MS feel like IBM before their huge fall from grace for those old enough


As you say, back on subject...

Multi core support in LFS is a must now. In a way you would think LFS would be prime for it, even if only to split the physics cores for different cars in the race onto different CPUs to load balance.

PhysX support would probably require too much rework to make it worth while. TBH, PhysX is dead in the market until there are enough new GPUs with correct drivers and hardware to support it, something that is many years away.

At the current time the dedicated PhysX card itself is just a fancy heater than consume power and does nothing. No real software support and it suffers catch 22. You can't play online with some people on higher grade physics and others not due to all the problems that brings. Something that Voodoo cards did noy suffer from on release as they were visual only so no mismatch.

PhysX is a case of "Here is the solution, what was the problem?"

Last edited by Woz, Tue 1 Jul 2008, 12:04.

Quote from three_jump :

well his statement is not that far off, but what that implys is stupid. You can't cut the support for "older" operating systems just because there is a new one... Even MS know this and so does every other proper Software company.

@Shotglass:
epic avatar!

Yep, XP is due bug fixes through to 2014 from what I know. That said it still might be the main OS by then lol

Intel has BANNED Pista internally and as Windows 7 is just Pista core again looks like they will avoid that as well. If one of the most tech companies in the world with FULL access to the source avoids the OS what does say about it.

Unless MS gets Win7 right it could be the "end" of MS in the same way that IBM was top then died. My new lappy is Pista based and I have to say not too impressed, that is with a machine capable of running it as well (2.5Gh Intel Dual core, 2Gb Ram, ATI HD2600 with 512Mb dedicated and 250Gb drive)

Quote from gingiba :

Thing is, lower-profile tyre, coupled with lightweight, strong race-spec wheels will lower unsprung weight dramatically. On top of it, they provide a better contact patch, and allow better changes in direction - less tyrewall flex means that the change from one direction to another is faster and more precise. These advantages outweigh those of a comfortable ride (who cares about that in a race? Tracks are usually smoother than regular roads, and if you're last, who cares how comfy the ride was?). Only Formula 1 and other single-seaters use high-profile tyres, but even is only in order to counter the extremely stiff suspensions they use in order to extract maximum downforce.

For reference, two of the world's top GT cars, archrivals C6R and the DBR9, use very low-profile tyres. Compare that to those on LFS' GTR cars..

So what. Why does it matter. Your request is no different than people asking for more BHP in the TBO class because modern cars are more powerful. Matters not as long as the cars are balanced. Close racing is all that matters. More cars it more important that pointless tweaks like this.

yep, sounds like heat. Improve cooling or turn down detail.

Quote from Technique :

It doesn't have to be just for the wheel though. Using a buttkicker or similar device to simulate vibrations in the shifter or seat can add to the immersion factor.

Yep and it requires no changes to the FFB engine in LFS as can be driven off the engine tone

Quote from Blackout :

For that you need to hire someone with a slingshot and a bucket of bugs.

+1 for this idea

Quote from noskillz :

Anything that reminds people to brake for the corners should stay, imo.

No, it just makes the matter EVEN worse. Somebody who is unable to drive and off line in the heat of a battle for place will think the brake point is the same as when they are on line.

+1 for banned ALWAYS online. If you don't know when to brake you should not be racing online.

This has come up again and again PLEASE SEARCH.

The stupid canned rumble effect present in ISI sims is terrible. If your wheel shakes like that IRL take your car to the garage and get it fixed.

Why do so many people confuse the feeling you get through your body with what you feel through the wheel. Try this...

Drive ONLY holding the wheel with your finger tips and then really think about what you feel.

Quote from flymike91 :

A computer can never tell who actually caused an accident and people are almost equally inept.

True but does not matter at all.

My CTRA yellow rating at time of posting is 14%, well below the average. I have been involved in T1 pileups that are not my fault but it just does not matter. If you drive like a dick your yellow rating rizes and if you are clean it stays low. Its about trends not single incidents.

big big -1. Would NEVER be allowed on a track.

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

OMG when did NASCAR start going round corners?!?!?!?



anyways, i dont really get the idea of rev matching. can any1 explain it to me please?

Say you have the following gear setup that at 50mph

2nd = 5000rpm
3rd = 4000rpm
4th = 3000rpm

You should be able to change into 3rd WITHOUT the clutch if you rev the engine at 4000rpm at 50mph. You can change to 4th without clutch at 3000rpm

That is rev matching. You blip the revs to the required rpm to allow smooth gear changes. Normally you would use the clutch but matching will keep the car in balance. You do the matching instead of the syncromesh

Look at the yellow rating in CTRA. Yes you pick up yellows sometimes when its NOT your fault but over the course of time your rating gives a good reflection of how clean you are on the track.

TBH: If the system were such that servers had to enable a filter to block dick head drivers then its not a prob. If you are a dick you have to play on unfiltered servers until you rating gets better. That is good punishment for being a dick in the first place.