Quote from Matrixi :

I have no doubt at all that LFS wouldn't be currently developed, but also the saying "too little, too late" starts coming in to play with titles like iRacing being so phenominally good and even better at some things. Too bad it's not such a great sim for drifters such as me, then again neither is LFS with its currently messed up tire physics.

I don't think the debate about which sim is better is either relevent or concluded. Laser scanned tracks and force feedback are the two features that set iRacing ahead of LFS as far as I'm concerned. The rest of it left me decidedly cold. Uptake on iRacing hasn't been what was hoped for or expected either, from the stories I've heard, and server population isn't all that strong considering how infrequent the races are.

As for tyre physics etc, it seems you want to complain that the devs are putting additional time into development while at the same complaining about the lack of prompt patches. Do you not see a paradox with this mindset? I certainly do.

Quote from Matrixi :

You're forgetting one thing here, not everyone who is annoyed can be bothered to start posting in this forum about their dissatisfaction

And exactly how many of these people are there, please? You talk like you know how many there are, so please share with the class. How many people are annoyed but never say anything to anyone, please?

Quote from Matrixi :

The thing is, LFS hasn't really become more complex in the past years. It's still more or less the same as it was in 2005 when the last major release took place. How do you reckon that the features we have gotten now (engine stalling, better clutch, changed physics, etc) would make it any more time consuming to develop more cars and tracks for an example?

That's raw, blatant ignorance of the process of programming an application that you're demonstrating. LFS is extraordinarily more complex than it was when I first bought it. You clearly don't understand how an application that grows in features grows exponentially in complexity. Even optimisations - and there have been huge numbers of optimizations - make an application vastly more complex. You just perceive that little has changed without understanding the mechanics of the development process.

Quote from Matrixi :

I really can't see the point of all this religious scavier protective care that some users put out either, maybe it is just those LFS colored glasses working their magic, I don't know. This forum starts feeling like some kind of a concentration camp with even the mods putting pressure on people who don't agree with the great and holy "master plan".

Oh give it up, puhleeze. I'm not putting any pressure on anyone to fall in with some great and holy "master plan", but if someone starts spouting utter crap like their world was ending because they didn't get a patch on December 19th, or nonsense like that, there's a good chance I'll underline how ridiculous they're being. Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I have less rights than anyone else to tell someone to grow up when they're throwing a tantrum. I don't need LFS coloured glasses to see that I don't OWN the LFS devs, and they don't OWE us anything, on any date, at any time.

Quote from Matrixi :

Anyway, I've already kind of made a gentlemans agreement with myself that I'll join the "shift + delete, forget" -club after I'll hit my 100 000 km mark at LFSW, which isn't very far anymore. I've thought to give that much time to see any proper changes in the development, if not.. well, there are other options out there to spend time with. It's simply such an utter shame considering the unbelievable potential of this sim, the sim that has been my favourite for over half a decade.

You've played a sim for over half a decade, you've clocked up nearly 100K km in it, and you think the devs are to blame that you're bored, because they missed a patch release in December. Wow.

Quote from SamH :

...because they missed a patch release in December. Wow.

Most users dont care about the postponing in december. Devs said "early in 2009", everyone was a little disappointed, but everyone thought the patch will be in January, maybe February. Its nearly end of April...

To the developers:
Just like to say that I've loved LFS all the years I've been playing it so far, a big thanks to the devs making that possible, being heavily outgunned & outnumbered by their 'competitors' and still producing the best online racing game ever and the only game that gives me the true thrill of close racing on the edge (well the original TOCA did also but that doesn't count really as it wasn't an online multiplayer, no match for playing versus humans). Not only is it great but also cheap (S1 and its sequal S2 for only 27 euro), then you keep on updating and working on it all these years, without any extra charge the content keeps growing, such commitment is rarely matched by other companies.

To see such an honest, direct and pure aproach to creating this game was and still is refreshing in today's gaming industry.

I'll wait patiently and quietly for the next upgrade, as always, thanks again and don't let the whines and complaints in this thread get to you too much, some people are never satisfied.

Kindest regards,

a very satisfied customer

To the complaining posters in this thread:
Have some well earned respect for the devs for the reasons as stated above. It's not a bad thing to be critical, quite the opposite, this can be a very useful to the devs in their work, it is, however, not in anybody's interest to be overly negative. Try placing yourself in the devs shoes. would you like to work your ass off for people that won't ever stop complaining?

You already bought the game at an insanely low price, the more or less constant flow of update's is bonus on top of that, they're not required to give them to you, they're not slaves required to respond to your every whim.

With kind regards,

Dan


P.S. I've noticed that the current version is S2 z, there being no more letters after z in the alfabet, could it possible be that the devs are preparing for the launch of S3 ?!?! O_o just a thought.

Quote from daniel-san :

I've noticed that the current version is S2 z, there being no more letters after z in the alfabet, could it possible be that the devs are preparing for the launch of S3 ?!?! O_o just a thought.

S2 isn't finished. S2 is in Alpha stage and it will become Beta first. And as Scawen said, there's no limit by letters in alphabet.

Quote from SamH :

Here's a good example. No promise was made. Scawen said he PLANNED to release a patch in early 2009. It was NOT a promise. It was a statement of hope/intention.



No, because whatever he says will be made into a "promise" that people will try to hold him to. Just as you have done above. You are your own best argument against your own suggestion.

[edit] ^^^ What BlackEye said.

Ok, you're right, he didn't promise anything (Sorry, I was mistaken), but when you say something, planned, promised... and it doesn't come, people start asking everyday what's going on with it.

About some news, I mean something like publish a message in the main web saying that they are on it and will give more news soon (soon can be...?), it would be nice 1 per month, I guarantee you that people (at least me ) will be happy, and all that without any promise.

I preffer that, Don't you? if they are working on it and it's taking more difficult than expected, ok no problem, I know perfectly that they don't work so fast like the other games' devs, but say it! and many people will be happy and will shut up (rFactor goes at the same developing pace, No??).

Wow, you sure are on a mission here.

Quote from SamH :

As for tyre physics etc, it seems you want to complain that the devs are putting additional time into development while at the same complaining about the lack of prompt patches. Do you not see a paradox with this mindset? I certainly do.

Sigh. You manage to make it sound so wrong. I'm dissatisfied because nothing that has happened in the past two years or so of development has been anything relevant to my LFS use.

Quote from SamH :

And exactly how many of these people are there, please? You talk like you know how many there are, so please share with the class. How many people are annoyed but never say anything to anyone, please?

How the heck could I know the exact number? I could name a few of my friends who have quit. You sound so surprised to actually believe LFS isn't all about dancing on roses for every single one of us.

Quote from SamH :

That's raw, blatant ignorance of the process of programming an application that you're demonstrating. LFS is extraordinarily more complex than it was when I first bought it. You clearly don't understand how an application that grows in features grows exponentially in complexity.

You basically avoided answering my question, so I won't bother answering either.

Quote from SamH :

Oh give it up, puhleeze. I'm not putting any pressure on anyone to fall in with some great and holy "master plan", but if someone starts spouting utter crap like their world was ending because they didn't get a patch on December 19th, or nonsense like that, there's a good chance I'll underline how ridiculous they're being.

I don't really give a flying turd that they missed THIS release date or THIS patch. Try to understand already, it's the past years that have been dissapointing. Not - just - this - patch. Clear enough?

Quote from SamH :

You've played a sim for over half a decade, you've clocked up nearly 100K km in it, and you think the devs are to blame that you're bored, because they missed a patch release in December. Wow.

Once again, you've got it wrong. I don't give a damn about this december. If some kid says his christmas was ruined, you suddenly think everyone who says he isn't happy is the same? Sheesh. The december couldn't have mattered less to me, that was enough rough time dealing with family issues back then to give a crap about a car simulator patch.

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, it all travels only one way. Therefore you can quote me back but you won't get a reply again. Try to make the best of it.

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

Most users dont care about the postponing in december. Devs said "early in 2009", everyone was a little disappointed, but everyone thought the patch will be in January, maybe February. Its nearly end of April...

The devs said WHAT, "early in 2009"? The answer is that they said they "Plan" to release a patch early 2009. That is not a promise, it's merely a statement of intention.

Scawen didn't say "January, maybe February". Some people made up these things in their own heads and are now blaming Scawen for missing their fictional deadlines. It's irrational.

Quote from Matrixi :

Wow, you sure are on a mission here.

Nope, I'm just doing what I do about once a week - trying to address some of the fiction and distortion that's made its way into peoples' heads, and help people get a proper bit of perspective again.

Quote from Matrixi :

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, it all travels only one way. Therefore you can quote me back but you won't get a reply again. Try to make the best of it.

Sorry you're upset, but I stand by the points I've made. I tell things as I see them and I don't feel the need to apologise for that.

Quote from SamH :

The devs said WHAT, "early in 2009"? The answer is that they said they "Plan" to release a patch early 2009. That is not a promise, it's merely a statement of intention.

I know it isn't a promise. Its like someone tells you that he plans to give you a cake... he makes you happy But, he wont give it to you... (stupid example, I know..)

Quote from SamH :

Scawen didn't say "January, maybe February". Some people made up these things in their own heads and are now blaming Scawen for missing their fictional deadlines. It's irrational.

Im not blaming anyone. And I wrote :

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

..everyone thought the patch will be in January, maybe February.

Quote from FlyingSam :

About some news, I mean something like publish a message in the main web saying that they are on it and will give more news soon (soon can be...?), it would be nice 1 per month, I guarantee you that people (at least me ) will be happy, and all that without any promise.

I preffer that, Don't you? if they are working on it and it's taking more difficult than expected, ok no problem, I know perfectly that they don't work so fast like the other games' devs, but say it! and many people will be happy and will shut up (rFactor goes at the same developing pace, No??).

Okay, being totally honest I would love to know what's coming and when. Of course I would, who wouldn't? I know we all are dying to know.

Being a moderator, though, I also see the developers' reasons for not posting. I know how much more difficult life on the forum is after people are given a little bit of information about what's in development, because the forum users always convert that into a promise.. and there are thousands of reasons why something the devs WANT to do suddenly becomes impossible, or more time-consuming than intended, gets put off or permanently shelved etc.

But if a developer mentions anything about something, they're immediately pressured to deliver it. It's not fun working like that, and the reason the devs work for themselves is to avoid exactly that kind of thing - whether pressure from a line manager or pressure from a customer, it's not what you want.

So I understand the short-term disappointment people are experiencing (and I'm one of them) but I confidently back the devs up because every time they've ever been left to quietly work on LFS, they've delivered on something special. I'll fight their corner so they don't have to, because I know that I'll benefit from a cool patch at the end of it.. and that's just what I want out of LFS, for as long as they're willing to work on it.

I hope that makes a bit of sense, and you can understand where I'm coming from.

And You should all remember that LFS is their income , very comfortable income so they won't leave it so easly . At least i wouldn't leave such a great opportunity to be very rich .

P.S.:"But if a developer mentions anything about something, they're immediately pressured to deliver it." Yeap, for example: rally pack and interiors .

I'm also very eager to know the news, but most of all I want them to work in a way they like, not in the way I like . Because if they like the way the work, they will work on it longer .

Guys!

Would you please stop making posts, where you argue, every 10min???!!!
This is worse than all those whiners together!!!111!111!11!!!1

Stop this please!!!

Because I cant read english as fast as you keep making posts!!11!!11

Finally some interesting discussion has sprung up Just a quick remark:

Quote from boosterfire :

The people who don't moan, or the people who moan constructively

There's no such a thing as 'moaning constructively' - the fact that you used this expression is quite revealing of the upside-down-yness which affects some users' views on this matter.

Lumping true whiners together with legitimate discussions is a quick way to discredit every meaningful exchange of ideas may have actually the chance of happening - so those can be replaced with endless repetition of the community dogmas and mantras, and if you do not agree with those, welcome sir this is your moaner badge.

It's the fanboys' kingdom on earth. All you can end up with in such a situation, is a community and a game only fanboys want to be part of.

Quote from Fuse5 :

Last time I checked, no, sorry.

@ velociround - postponing the patch, what? I was just referring to the fact that calling out random dates, that have nothing to do or no influence whatsoever on when we get the patch, is lame.

And I was just joking because every new date posted was later than the one right before it, and since that date was a random speculation of when it would be released, we were basically postponing the patch ...
[/off topic]

A better solution is to just lie and say that VW decided to pull out on the deal and the scirocco won't be released. But now that i've already said it, the element of surprise is lost.

Quote from Chivikiiki :

o hai, wen schickocko be releaise, FXR is so bording.

Wait, what? FXR boring? No waiiz! :bananadea

own't.

My date guess is 5th of WHEN ITS READY.

That spam has been deleted, and AMB has been banned 3 months. If it continues, I'll just add 3 months to his ban each time he creates a new account and spams. Pathetic. I thought he said he was going to stop being an ****.

Quote from SamH :

That spam has been deleted, and AMB has been banned 3 months. If it continues, I'll just add 3 months to his ban each time he creates a new account and spams. Pathetic. I thought he said he was going to stop being an ****.

Ouch.. Precident has been set.

Anyway, I kinda hope the 'rocco will be out within a month, hopefully I'd have some time to use it then!

Quote from Matrixi :

I really can't see the point of all this religious scavier protective care that some users put out either, maybe it is just those LFS colored glasses working their magic, I don't know. This forum starts feeling like some kind of a concentration camp with even the mods putting pressure on people who don't agree with the great and holy "master plan".

You know what, I couldn't agree with someone on the internet more right about now..

Sam, while I can understand your points, I'd just wish you'd perhaps understand the other side. End of April is not 'early 2009' by anyone's watch, hell it's almost summer. Personally it doesn't bother me but for some it does, and although I may not agree with them, at least I can understand them. NOBANPLZ

Quote from NightShift :

It's the fanboys' kingdom on earth. All you can end up with in such a situation, is a community and a game only fanboys want to be part of.

A game being played by people who actually like it is fanboys' kingdom on earth? if only i had known before it's that easy

I say ban them.
Its very bad creating new accounts just to spam.
The mods need to control the forum while we wait for patch!
Cya on track

Quote from nautzki :

A game being played by people who actually like it

We all love LFS otherwise we wouldn't bother talking about it for the most part. BTW is this someone's second account you're posting from?

Quote from NightShift :

BTW is this someone's second account you're posting from?

No, this is my only account. Just the word fanboy seems a little overused lately, in my eyes.

Quote from nautzki :

No, this is my only account. Just the word fanboy seems a little overused lately, in my eyes.

That's becuase that word really describes who we are. Sure you don't notice it, but Looking up to the devs, saying LFS is better than any other game out there truely makes you a LFS fan.

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

Looking up to the devs, saying LFS is better than any other game out there truely makes you a LFS fan.

I can't even remember doing that in public. I like LFS and i believe in the devs, as they seem to think about doing something right in a way that is not far of the way i do. After a lot of thinking (and i did it in pain, as papa Buk told me not to do that more than i have to): is is, isn't isn't (don't know who said that first, sorry). Some of us like LFS for what it is, some for what it might become and some for what it should be - most of the later might get disapointed.

edit: oh heaven, please don't let me discuss in forign (hell, that's not the spelling) languages - it's hopeless enough in the language i have used since i first said 'mama'

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

That's becuase that word really describes who we are. Sure you don't notice it, but Looking up to the devs, saying LFS is better than any other game out there truely makes you a LFS fan.

It makes you a loser IMO.. LFS is the best racing simulation out there (IMO, havent tried NKP 1.3 or the new iRacing etc), but as for best GAME, well I'm sure that I'd rather have something like Call of Duty 4.. or some sort of strategy game that's not overly complicated.. such as Black&White2 or Age Of Empires III (good game that).

Or you know, the best game you can play is "life".