Quote from richo :

Once again as in every F1 thread , Webber all the way .

Or in the unexpected event that a javelin thrown from a UFO kebabs' his skull i will go for Vettel..

That is the most random thing I've read on this forum.

So it seems the consensus is: dry = Button FTW, and wet = Vettel FTW.

Here's an extended forecast, just for the curious:
http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK ... _forecast.asp?eventID=366

Imo Vettel and webber are both extremely good at wet , it could be a toss up between them.

I just please hope to god it will rain.

and for the rest of the european season too.

Quote from Becky Rose :

They tried it at the start of the season, there was something about a diffuser that they didn't like. Then Benetton tried to get their prize money annulled. Currently they're too distracted trying to save themselves from major restructuring to argue with each other - but once they've finished fighting the FIA they'll be at each others throats again.

I would like to see the other teams stepping it up a little and challenging Brawn. I'm not too fussed who wins as long as i'm entertained as a fan, although I do think Button has had quite enough trophies for now - but I can't fault what he's doing and moan about him like I could with Schumacher. It's annoying that somebody I never much liked and always rated as mediochre has suddenly transformed into a good driver in a good car because with every trophy he's making me look an idiot - bah humbug.

This is not the first time, remember your comments about Vettel at the start of '08

Quote from el pibe :

why dont ferrari use their veto and ban all the aerodynamics on that brawn ??? now that the FOTA exist it should be pretty damn easy ! im sure the other teams would agree because they also want to win... dont they ?



oh, to devildare. KIMI FTW !!!!






yes... that shows how much i love you

tbh the brawn isnt just about aerodynamics, everyone thought the secret was the double difusser but it isnt, the brawn car is a great base car, no matter what the other teams do they wont be able to match it properly. its like saying that putting a wing on an mpv makes it handle like a caterham, i think not

Sutil wins. Word.

More like Fisichella. He allways believed to huge potencial of Force India and was very happy when joining them.

Quote from Mustafur :

This is not the first time, remember your comments about Vettel at the start of '08

Yes that's true, I didn't recognise the potential in Vettel as quickly as some others - in fairness, my view was based upon entirely reasonable observation up until that point. He had been driving like a total twonk, with his one potentially good finish turning to disaster and earning him the condemnation of his now team mate Mark Webber - who referred to him as a "damn kid with not enough experience".

On the flip side, there are plenty of drivers who's potential i've seen a lot sooner than others have recognised, it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

The problem with Button however is i've been lambasting him for years and have been entirely justified in doing so - but he's changed, he's got better, and he's got a car that allows him to show this - I still think the view i've expressed of Button over the years was entirely reasonable, but his skillset and natural driving style are ideally suited to this years tyre regs, and his car is good, and he's had so much damned practice in an F1 car that somewhere along the line he's developed some actual racing driver skills that where not previously evident.

I've no idea what he's like as a person now, I wont judge him on the brief time I knew him - hell, I regard myself back then as being something a lot less than I am now, so i'll extend that same courtesy to him and wish him the best with his new found sucess.

Likewise, the Hamilton I fancied as a real tenacious racer seems muted of late. The first few races he really showed some fight and was mixing it up, but now he seems content to follow other cars and not take risks. He has a real chance to show us what he's made of, and in the first few races he did that - but now he's become very low profile and seems intent on just waiting the year out. I dont care if he's fighting with a Force India, I want to see that Hamilton aggression back.

things change.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Yes that's true, I didn't recognise the potential in Vettel as quickly as some others - in fairness, my view was based upon entirely reasonable observation up until that point. He had been driving like a total twonk, with his one potentially good finish turning to disaster and earning him the condemnation of his now team mate Mark Webber - who referred to him as a "damn kid with not enough experience".

On the flip side, there are plenty of drivers who's potential i've seen a lot sooner than others have recognised, it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

The problem with Button however is i've been lambasting him for years and have been entirely justified in doing so - but he's changed, he's got better, and he's got a car that allows him to show this - I still think the view i've expressed of Button over the years was entirely reasonable, but his skillset and natural driving style are ideally suited to this years tyre regs, and his car is good, and he's had so much damned practice in an F1 car that somewhere along the line he's developed some actual racing driver skills that where not previously evident.

I've no idea what he's like as a person now, I wont judge him on the brief time I knew him - hell, I regard myself back then as being something a lot less than I am now, so i'll extend that same courtesy to him and wish him the best with his new found sucess.

Likewise, the Hamilton I fancied as a real tenacious racer seems muted of late. The first few races he really showed some fight and was mixing it up, but now he seems content to follow other cars and not take risks. He has a real chance to show us what he's made of, and in the first few races he did that - but now he's become very low profile and seems intent on just waiting the year out. I dont care if he's fighting with a Force India, I want to see that Hamilton aggression back.

things change.

Becky you seem to be falling for the WDC illusion. The WCC is the real championship.

Button hasn't improved or got worse. I think I started to realise about 3 years ago that a driver like Button NEEDS a good car. His style only works when the car is next to perfect. When it's not his speed disappears. This for me is not the mark of a great 'driver'. However in terms of engineering Button is PERFECT for highlighting flaws in a car because he is unable to drive around them. He's very good, always has been but certainly not as great as some people suddenly are hailing him.

Hamilton drove his a**s of in the first couple of races because at that stage the WDC was still on and the MP24 may have been able to develop. Since then he and his team have realised that it's a 'boat'. Why take risks and waste money fixing a car up for the next race. Is it really worth it? His head is certainly down but you would expect that considering the car he has which is in no doubt the greatest turn around from a championship winning team I can remember.

Maybe Mclaren are planning on next year, and they've told Hamilton just to hold on and wait for next year.

If Honda can stop development of the current car early to develop a world beater, then so can Mclaren.

However note that there will be no massive rule change between 2009/10, so maybe Mclaren cant engineer such a massive comeback.

Quote from 5haz :

Maybe Mclaren are planning on next year, and they've told Hamilton just to hold on and wait for next year.

If Honda can stop development of the current car early to develop a world beater, then so can Mclaren.

However note that there will be no massive rule change between 2009/10, so maybe Mclaren cant engineer such a massive comeback.

McLaren don't SEEM to have any engineering heavy weights. They could be in some serious trouble if their wonder simulator doesn;t start delivering the goods sometime soon

Quote from Intrepid :

McLaren don't SEEM to have any engineering heavy weights. They could be in some serious trouble if their wonder simulator doesn;t start delivering the goods sometime soon

They need to clone Ross Brawn more than anything.

Mclaren have returned from very bad times before, but it will take them a few seasons.

Teams can't just stop their development on their current car and pull another Honda for next year because there aren't any rule changes for next year (well at least that would be the scenario if FOTA win the battle against FIA). Their 2010 car should be more of a evolution than revolution.

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

Teams can't just stop their development on their current car and pull another Honda for next year because there aren't any rule changes for next year (well at least that would be the scenario if FOTA win the battle against FIA). Their 2010 car should be more of a evolution than revolution.

Quote from 5haz :

However note that there will be no massive rule change between 2009/10, so maybe Mclaren cant engineer such a massive comeback.

I know, I know.

On a mostly off topic note, I would like to point out that Santander's logo looks like a pile of smelly dog shit.

That will be all.

Quote from Intrepid :

Becky you seem to be falling for the WDC illusion. The WCC is the real championship.

Button hasn't improved or got worse. I think I started to realise about 3 years ago that a driver like Button NEEDS a good car. His style only works when the car is next to perfect. When it's not his speed disappears. This for me is not the mark of a great 'driver'. However in terms of engineering Button is PERFECT for highlighting flaws in a car because he is unable to drive around them. He's very good, always has been but certainly not as great as some people suddenly are hailing him.

Hamilton drove his a**s of in the first couple of races because at that stage the WDC was still on and the MP24 may have been able to develop. Since then he and his team have realised that it's a 'boat'. Why take risks and waste money fixing a car up for the next race. Is it really worth it? His head is certainly down but you would expect that considering the car he has which is in no doubt the greatest turn around from a championship winning team I can remember.

Alonso and Vettel Proved your WCC theory wrong last year.

Quote from Mustafur :

Alonso and Vettel Proved your WCC theory wrong last year.

eh?

Alonso got lucky twice and Vettel had a VERY good car in the wet... just ask BOURDAIS who quailed 4th and bar some bad luck at the start set a VERY VERY good race pace in Monza. With 18-20 GPs you will get times when the front 4 cars might fall off the road or have problems. People get lucky... Panis Monaco 96 casing point

The actual driver championship is inherently flawed as the sport is SO car dependant.

I hope Button wins, I really do. IDGAF if it's like Schumacher - he's British [and in a British Car(ish)], a nice chap and deserves this fantastic run of races. It's not like he's driving badly in an amazing car - he's doing brilliantly

Quote from J@tko :

I hope Button wins, I really do. IDGAF if it's like Schumacher - he's British [and in a British Car(ish)], a nice chap and deserves this fantastic run of races. It's not like he's driving badly in an amazing car - he's doing brilliantly

I don't care if he wins, as long as he has a friggen challenge. Right now he's just lapping not racing...

Quote from Intrepid :

eh?

Alonso got lucky twice and Vettel had a VERY good car in the wet... just ask BOURDAIS who quailed 4th and bar some bad luck at the start set a VERY VERY good race pace in Monza. With 18-20 GPs you will get times when the front 4 cars might fall off the road or have problems. People get lucky... Panis Monaco 96 casing point

The actual driver championship is inherently flawed as the sport is SO car dependant.

Alonso lucky twice? no, once yes, twice? no.

Vettels car was good in the wet, but he overperformed the situation, plus if you dont include that result 25 points from a Torro rosso is still insane.

Lucky wasn't Vettel in Monza, Lucky was Hamilton in Monaco 08.

Imo the Driver Championship is somewhat flawed and I hate it when people say, ''So n so is the best because they performing, with the best car on the grid by far''.

I don't know why but i Preferred it when the top teams were usually the same group of teams as the drivers that performed in the crap cars where given a chance to go to the top, now they have no idea where they stand and their chance at a WDC is based soley on that.

I still find it funny that it has taken you till this season to figure this out that since Hamilton is doing crap, in a crap car.

Quote from evilpimp :

I don't care if he wins, as long as he has a friggen challenge. Right now he's just lapping not racing...

Not his fault, don't bash him for it. Bash all the other soggy turds out there. No doubt, we could all drive better, etc. etc.

I'm not bashing him, just saying that I'd rather see him win with a challenge then see him win with no competition at all.

@evilpimp: You got a point there TBH, I don't freakin' care if he wins, but he needs a freakin' challenge. Or B(utton)rawn will win for the 6th time in a row... When was the last time this happened to a single driver???

2004

Quote from TAYLOR-MANIA :

Who knows, maybe Vettel could've won the last race, but Button punished him and made no mistakes. His drives are championship winners.

I think you once again saw what was pretty apparent in Monaco - the Red Bull seems to have an incredible aero package, but it just doesn't have the mechanical grip that makes the Brawns so superior...

had a really strange dream last night, hamilton was challenging button for the lead at silverstone with murray walker comentating when they all stopped whilst a giant dog sniffed the cars with murray's voice going supersonic describing it

result of watching an advert when i've had a few to drink