Quote from NightShift :

words

Agreed 100%

I got a chance to run a couple of test sessions with a friend's installation of iRacing, and steering induced understeer works well with the Radical, making easy to counter lift throttle induced oversteer to balance the car.

If I am suffering from lift off oversteer I don't change my driving style. I add 1 click of front-bump damping instead. Or maybe add 1 click of rear rebound although that has less effect.

If the extra click of front bump results in too much understeer then I would add a click of rear anti-rollbar aswell.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

If I am suffering from lift off oversteer I don't change my driving style. I add 1 click of front-bump damping instead. Or maybe add 1 click of rear rebound although that has less effect. If the extra click of front bump results in too much understeer then I would add a click of rear anti-rollbar aswell.

Depends on the cause of the lift off oversteer. If it's because the coast side ramp angles in a limited slip differential are set too "loose", then you're just trying to mask a differential issue with a suspension setup.

In the case of iRacing, the SRF (scca Spec Racing Ford), has a terrible differential setup, way too loose on lift off throttle and too tight under power. Some players have tried to mask this with suspension setups, but you end up with a car that's too tight under power. The other option is left foot braking while keeping the throttle engaged. The SRF needs about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle in turns depending on the gear and speed.

Quote from JeffR :

Depends on the cause of the lift off oversteer. If it's because the coast side ramp angles in a limited slip differential are set too "loose", then you're just trying to mask a differential issue with a suspension setup.

That's a good point actually. Not enough coast diff locking can result in lift off oversteer but generally I stick with the same values for diff coast lock on all tracks and only really change one or two clicks on power locking.

Why would you ever use induced understeer, its soo much slower

I use it to warm the fronts if the rears are becoming much hotter.

Quote from DaveWS :

I use it to warm the fronts if the rears are becoming much hotter.

if that's the case i must agree with you, but if you would start off by driving with understeer, it will only wear out the front tires with a huge amount of heat. in theory.

Technically, it's coast locking that masks suspension oversteer, not the other way around.

I'm very skeptical. If I tried to pull that stunt with my kart I'd be facing the oncoming field faster than you could say "head-on collision". I can't imagine it being a different case with any other Formula car, or even a stiffly sprung car period. A soft car, maybe.

Eh, in the end, we shouldn't be trying to counter throttle lift oversteer, rather just preventing it by always working one pedal or the other.

The best drivers in the world, for the last 100 years, have been using opposite lock. I don't see any reason to do differently.

^This

By the way Jeff, the SRF has an open diff.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The best drivers in the world, for the last 100 years, have been using opposite lock. I don't see any reason to do differently.

Watch Jarno Trulli onboard some of his laps, he uses subtle induced understeer quite a lot, and Anthony Davidson was discussing it during free practice at a race this season. No, sorry I don't have any links etc.

Edit: By no means does any quick driver not use opposite lock though, but it depends on the circumstance.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

By the way Jeff, the SRF has an open diff.

I've since read about that, so that would make it 0/100/0 differential in GPL LSD terminology. The effect on the SRF in iRacing seems to be exagerrated beyond reality. Also induced understeer didn't seem to help with the SRF. Induced understeer did work with the Radical though, and it always has with the cars in GPL, so at least one car in iRacing behaves like the old Papy cars.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The best drivers in the world, for the last 100 years, have been using opposite lock. I don't see any reason to do differently.

I never claimed that induced understeer should be used exclusively. Opposite lock should be used depending on the circumstances. For some cars, both in real life and in racing games, induced understeer is useful. It works well on the Radical in iRacing, at least with the default basic or advanced setups provided by iRacing.

Quote from senn :

IIRC torque steer is when the torque being transferred from the wheels to the ground causes the steering to "tug" one way or another. Generally cars with high output engines and a FF layout are most effected, i can't remember which does it more tho, those with an LSD, or those with an open centre diff....i vaguely recall LSD's being worse, but it has been a while.

TMK it's not something you really want while racing.

With LSD, of course. With LSD torque will be transferred from one side to another, leading to inbalance.
I have never experienced serious torque steering with open diff FWDs.

On topic :
A lot of rally drivers do this, especially on loose surface. It's much better understeering into a tighter corner than sliding down into it with the higher possiblity of ending yourself up in the woods. Some will naturaly understeer when hearing "tightens".
For clean tarmac racing, it's often suggested to be away from heavy sliding as you'll overcook the tyres.

OK, so it's not LFS, but the Radical in iRacing seems happy using a bit of induced understeer, at least with the default "advanced" setup. I'm not sure how long the tires would last when drifting through the turns as I do in this video, but it sure is fun. Slip angles aren't as high as they are in GPL, but the driving technique of using lift throttle oversteer to scrub off speed in turns feels similar.

http://jeffareid.net/ir/irssrad.wmv

youtube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRBs61lwh4M&fmt=22

Quote from JeffR :

The effect on the SRF in iRacing seems to be exagerrated beyond reality.

Open diff is a bit exaggerated in LFS too IMO, but that probably is something that has to do with tyres rather than diffs in both sims.

Induced understeer is better then to have over a slight oversteer on front engine-rwd, and especially mid engine-rwd cars, mostly during the braking/coasting processes, as lifting off the gas transfers weight + added traction to the front tires, and braking in a corner with the added weight of the mid mounted engine will result in a spin. Oversteer would only transfer the weight faster and more suddenly, loading more of the car's weight onto the front outside tire, not both front tires, while unloading the rear tires.

The best setup I can imagine is one that's set to where the car can hit a speed and angle, that the car can accelerate, and maintain a constant arc through the turn with no steering or countersteering at all. It would basically be turned with just the throttle, right on the verge of road adhesion/drifting, and already on the gas, while other's are still managing to negotiate the turn, unwind the wheel, then accelerate.

LFS does it nicely, just needs a little tweaking for each person. Gran Turismo could have used a bit more, almost every car suffered from terminal understeer, and had to be trailbraked just to take most turns.

Quote from Pablo Donoso :

LFS does it nicely, just needs a little tweaking for each person. Gran Turismo could have used a bit more, almost every car suffered from terminal understeer, and had to be trailbraked just to take most turns.

Well, I would always trailbrake instead of induced understeer - first to get angle in turn, second to steer with power with outer rear on optimum grip and inside rear just above. Induced understeer is likely to be something to fight with out of turn (with weight transferred to rear) so I dont see it as a solution.