Quote from morpha :

So you're a casual gamer, some people are not. Some people take LFS and other sims serious enough to spend a lot of money on their equipment, on wheels, racing frames, shifters and pedals, motion simulators even. Those people are dedicated to sim-racing and expect the same dedication from everyone they race.

you probably don't have any other life or you have too much money to spare...for me i'm having a hard time atm, for the last half year and i can't imagine to spend a one more penny on racing equipment, i must be pretty much idiot to do that considering the fact i must save money to buy just food...

according to you if i'm poor i can't play lfs ...great...
i think iRacing is what should have those abilities enabled since it's the game to spend you unneccesary money

*sry had to post this since some poeple can't see that life is not always black and white*

Quote from -NightFly- :

for me i'm having a hard time atm, for the last half year and i can't imagine to spend a one more penny on racing equipment, i must be pretty much idiot to do that considering the fact i must save money to buy just food...

according to you if i'm poor i can't play lfs ...great...

Quite right, because if you're as poor as you say you are, you cannot afford an internet connection, the running costs of your relatively modern computer or the time to sit infront of it to race.

Frankly anyone saying they are on the verge of their personal bankruptcy, having to save money for food yet miraculously not for the non-essential, quite possibly more expensive things in life is either a liar or a masochist.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean to offend you (although I probably did by calling you either a liar or masochist :razz, I'm merely saying you should straighten your priorities.

Quote from -NightFly- :

you probably don't have any other life or you have too much money to spare... i think iRacing is what should have those abilities enabled since it's the game to spend you unneccesary money

*sry had to post this since some poeple can't see that life is not always black and white*

I'm far from rich, I spent 220€ about 2 years or so ago, that's one or two track days or a G25, which is far better value in the long term based on my experience with it. I don't want to spend more money, I don't even want others to spend more money per se, all I want (although by now I don't care anymore) is a server side option so people who, like me, spent just that bit more on a clutch or a wheel that comes with one can race together "at the touch of a button".

• We have established that an analog pedal clutch can be as cheap as 20$, perhaps even cheaper. All you need is a second USB wheel with pedals, or if you're willing and able to build stuff, any USB input device with at least one analog axis.
• We still are and have always been talking about a server side option, don't know how often that has to be stressed until people finally get it.

he did set his priorities strait, he does not want to spend his whole lift trying to survive, he wants to have some fun in his life with his pals at lfs and relieve all the stress of the real world

i think my priorities are right as i prefer my life instead of lfs (it's a part of it yes ofcourse, but not primary), i see lfs as a place to relax and get away from rl problems and have a merely close feeling to real driving (don't have driving licence in rl, through my own stupidity i delayed making them and now they seem to me a bit too expensive)...as for internet connection and other things you say...hmm, i need internet for many different reasons (job related for one example) and for your information atm i'm not paying it, my father does until i get myself back on feet again...i think you slightly overestimated my situation, though i have a wheel, bought few months ago but again it was a gift from a member of rsradicals...

but to be ontopic there should be server where you highly equipped people could drive and have a blast almost like real....but...

there should be ability left for us, people like me =)

Quote from SidiousX :

I mean, if someone is too lazy to hit a damn button then that's their problem, I did it for two years. For the handicapped people, one solution is for the person to use the buttons on the wheel for shift-up/shift-down. And he could use one of the other buttons for the clutch.

Go on then, try it yourself. Set your wheel up with a couple of buttons for up and downshifts - and one for the clutch - and don't forget to set a couple of buttons for the throttle and brake - and two more for left and right view aswell - maybe another one for rear view - and one for pit limiter. Then throw yourself into T1 in the middle of the pack on a crowded server.

Easy ?

The whole screen should be black so that the game would be fair for blind people or for people that can not be bothered to look where they are going

Sorry? Can you speak louder, I did not hear that...

there should also be no sound and should not tase so damn good :hide:

I am a mouse user and i have to say i am absolutely against banning auto-clutch in servers. Come on, if you want to show off or train your shifting skills KEEP THAT TO YOURSELF. We may not have the money to get the wheels or shifters, some of us may only have a laptop or a desktop. Being unable to afford a wheel doesn't mean we lose our rights to play in our favourite servers, and that is because if suddenly all server owners decided one day "aha! banning auto-clutch is a good idea!" , it would be unfair to us since we would have nowhere else to play. The autoclutch system is there for a reason. They are for beginners, those who start to race with this kind of aid and as well as ABS, it is then they become more professional and disable the aids THEMSELVES........



LEAVE AUTO-CLUTCH ALONE AND LEAVE US ALONE.

Thank you and have a nice day

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Option

thank you

he is saying if say his favorite server is choosing to use this restriction then he would not get to use his favorite server

thank you

This thread could go forever and nothing would get solved.

The "for" want a semi useless option for convenience? Reasons understandable but one or two rub many of the "against" people the wrong way with somewhat elitist comments

The "against" are afraid that they will no longer be able to play when they will most likely never even see a difference if it was done. People are acting as if they will have to play sp because all servers will shut them out.


Same points are said endlessly over and over

conclusion......:bannana_g

well i am +1 for clutch as an option. i tend not to drive with it, but i would like to have the odd race - as long as you can tell the option is enabled on the server screen it should not waste anybody's time

Quote from Not Sure :

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Option

thank you

hmmm, you should check that word out yourself. I fully understand the meaning of the word "option". Thank you.

Why disable an option when somebody might actually need it?

Info about auto clutch (just as about shifter or controls used - kb, mouse, wheel) is part of standard InSim data available e.g. when player enters the track. It is actually quite simple to add this check into Airio with two configurable options: One to prohibit auto clutch, the other to require it.

I'm not sure what was the result of the whole discussion, but I guess just having the mentioned two options (to keep things ballanced) should not hurt anybody. Cars joining with disallowed clutch settings will be spectated (with appropriate explanation) for bad setup and that's it. By default any setting will be allowed...

EDIT: Done, auto clutch and shifter may be required or disallowed in Airio 2.3.3, to be released in one or two days. Any server admin should know however these could be highly restrictive options that must be used with care.

So I have to get Airio if I want to activate that option on my local server.
Well, it's something, but you know me ... I want it all. This should be implemented in the game, not in a addon, and servers that have this activated should have a flag.

Understood, but it is something nobody can help you with, except the cooperation of the two main LFS developers. And seeing how things move forward recently and the principles applied, frankly, I doubt it will ever be implemented.

My logitech momo has no clutch. I also have no money, but take the game seriously as much as i can.

._. People gotta also realize that there are some of us who take it as seriously as we can.. but don't have the money to buy a G25 at the moment.

=D The moment i do have the money... all hell will break loose.

Auto-Clutch = Good for us who only have 2 pedals.

Now if what your saying is if you can turn off auto-clutch for yourself... than ok.

But what about those who play with a mouse?

They might not have room for a steering wheel, or also no money.

Sure than can get a game, but it's full of idiots. If you want to take your racing so seriously, go play iRacing. It's just as simulated (people who disagree can go behind a dumpster and choke on a spoon) but more expensive. But it would give you a better feel for REAL cars.

And yes, i find iRacing and LFS to be about equal on my scale of "If i was driving a car would this be what it feels like", and rFactor falls in in 4th, after NR2003.

=/ i'd play iRacing more often if it wernt so expensive and they just had open servers instead of "iRacing sanctioned events".

Sorry, I'm not that sensitive.

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

But what about those who play with a mouse?

I did play with mouse for 2 years and used clutch which was spacebar if recall correct.

Quote from morpha :

They can find themselves a game, this is a sim :evil:
I realize not everyone is in pursuit of simulating a real car in their homes, it's just a game for some. But it should be an option for those who treat LFS as what it is, a simulation, even if it still is a relatively simple one.

It's possible via InSim, but I think it should be part of the server, so +1.

That is a problem. I persue sim racing but I cant afford Wheel + Pedels with Clutch...

so my only option is Mouse. Im already stuck racing LFS exclusively because a large count of racing sims dont event support configurable mouse steering.

The chances of a mouser racing with a keyboard clutch is also very low.





Your answer is unfair. Forcing Clutch is unfair to everybody. In addition doing such could cause the amount of drivers you race against to reduce greatly , as at least half of them wont have access to a clutch pedal.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Go on then, try it yourself. Set your wheel up with a couple of buttons for up and downshifts - and one for the clutch - and don't forget to set a couple of buttons for the throttle and brake - and two more for left and right view aswell - maybe another one for rear view - and one for pit limiter. Then throw yourself into T1 in the middle of the pack on a crowded server.

Exactly. Acccident rate could rise globally.

Quote from CodieMorgan :

The chances of a mouser racing with a keyboard clutch is also very low.

Hi

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Hi

That'll be 1 then

I can see how a mouse/keyboarder could use the full clutch, although i bet it ain't easy. Essentially you've got 8 fingers and 2 thumbs all within easy reach of the keys. But for us wheelers it's a bit harder to press the buttons, all we got is 2 thumbs and a nose.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

That'll be 1 then

I can see how a mouse/keyboarder could use the full clutch, although i bet it ain't easy.

'Full' as in manual button, or manual axis? Axis would be near-impossible, but button is trivial for me. Maybe it's because I've been using it for years but tbh I learnt it in a few hours. I use the right hand for the mouse (steering, shifting), and only 2 fingers on the left hand for everything else. Middle finger for throttle/brake/hbrake (A/Z/Q respectively) and the index finger for clutch (X). To shift up, hold A and tap x+LMB. To shift down, hold Z and tap x+RMB.

Manual button clutch (without a macro) is also trivial with a wheel like MOMO black. Shift with the stick, assign clutch to left/right paddle and use two of the red buttons in the middle for looking to the sides.

The bottom line (once again) for me is that the option 'no auto-clutch allowed' is pointless in the OP's context (to make it more fair for 3-pedal users). As long as it is impossible to detect the difference between manual axis and manual button clutch, this option is a complete non-issue to work around if one feels like it, and thus isn't a very good solution. A better one would be to identify button/axis clutch separately so that they can be controlled either by the use of InSim or a server-side option.