I did 2 or 3 laps and then i couldn't be arsed driving it anymore, i don't know how refined the setup was, ask Phil. I just don't see what the gains are supposed to be?
I did 2 or 3 laps and then i couldn't be arsed driving it anymore, i don't know how refined the setup was, ask Phil. I just don't see what the gains are supposed to be?
Thanks for the extremely useful testing data.
That's because I'm so slow
Well something new and "fresh" was wanted, so ideas where thrown about. The thought of having something completely new means teams would have to create setups and actually have to put in effort, instead of using the same set as a year before (or whenever) and starting the race with 20 laps practice.
I don't know how you concluded any of that, since everyone is saying the opposite of you (wanting more power).
So not enough laps to actually get concentrated.
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I don't mind opinions of people, as that is what this testing is about, but when people run 5-10 laps on half made sets (mainly Q sets) and then comment on how things should be changed it really makes me wonder. If you run a Q set (R2s) with this new GT1, you probably won't feel any change compared to the old GT1s. If you create a race set and actually attempt to run a stint (even a partial one) you will see a complete difference on how you must setup your car and how you must drive the car. The XRR might "seem" faster, or might "seem" easier, but in a stint it will struggle trying to keep the heat at a decent temperature when in the heat peak. The FZR can run R3/R4 which helps it during that heat cycle and gives it that advantage it needs due to the fuel concern.
Anyways, keep testing and try to not do just Q laps, as that isn't very helpful data at all.
I can see what your saying, i'll give it another bash later but i still don't find it balanced at all, you've just chucked heaps of power at it and told it to sort itself in rl you'd change a whole load of things to help it cope better but might be the setup or i've not taken enough time like you said but i still haven't seen a good reason as to why this was done? Only it made made to be more like a real GT1? Real GT1's aren't GT2's with 300bhp chucked in there.
I agree that people want a new challenge but I don't really think that the prospect of making new setups is likely to be all that appealing to the majority of competitors. It's more about having something new to drive imo and for that reason I think it would be nice if the car was significantly different to what we have now, i.e. something which provides a new challenge on the track as well as in the garage.
Most people seem to be suggesting that the new class handles almost identically to the old one, so it might be worth spending a bit more time testing it before deciding that the increase in engine output is too dramatic.
Well the LMP that got "released" was nothing like what else had been tested. Some thought it should be rather close to the BF1 specs, which made it incredibly boring to drive. The new GT1 class won't bring anything new when it comes to chassis obviously, you just can't do that with LFS. The entry of the corner in the new GT1s are different because you entering at a completely different rate of speed. The exit of the corner is new because you have 125bhp more. The middle of the corner is of course going to be the same, as its the same car.
However everyone complaining is either:
1. Not driving.
2. Only doing Q laps.
3. Jumping on the bandwagon.
If you are driving R2s only and making an opinion, then you obviously haven't properly tested at all. The car is needed to be setup and driven completely different in race trim than previously years. When people actually attempt to do race stints they will see what I am saying.
Putting efford in a game which is basically dead is lame anyway. Just return to NGT + GTR and have it like in the old days, who cares if you use the same set as always. You still have to deliver a proper performance. Noone of us, who is studying has the whole day time to work out setups for a very new car. We are glad if we can make it to the races with a bit of preparation at all. I'm just pointing out that something innovative from the developers would change this, imho a modded exe with still just more power and the same fail physic doesn't. Can't describe my feelings that pointy but yeah it's all just a big meh. Just my 2 cents.
People enjoy the old GT2s/new GT3s, cutting them out would leave many upset people. What you said basically is why MoE wanted the change, so if anything you went against yourself.
If a few years ago they chose the same cars as GT1 but with 140bhp less for GT2 instead of nGT, then why can't we choose the same cars, and add 130bhp to create another class? Did the old GT1 and GT2 drive exactly alike? It sure seems that way from what people are saying, even setups were the same apparantly.
nGT isn't as popular as the GT2, and keeping the same old GT1 would have you just showing up and racing with no practice as your post above says and as you did many times last season (as well as other teams). If you guys want to just sit there moaning and just blame the devs for it all then thats fine, but don't expect MoE to continue anywhere near to where it was before. Sometimes you have to make something happen on your own, and not just have others, or no one, do it for you.
(baSh0r)
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by baSh0r
Well i can't engage anymore in that discussion, it's just my viewpoint of everything concerning LFS is kinda meh at the moment. But as long as you do it somehow it's still meh but with a cherry on top.:cookiemon
I'll take the cherry as a compliment, thanks. 
good boy, caught my drift
Who is moaning? This thread is here for people to offer their opinions. Grow up and learn that not everyone feels the same as you about everything.
As Marius said, his dissatisfaction with the proposed new GT1s (which he has not tested, or not tested extensively) in large part stems from his dissatisfaction with the state of LFS in general, and not with the new GT1 class.
I think what PMD is getting at is that following last season it was clear to many of us, and voiced by many others, that having MoE continue as it was would result in even further decreased interest. As such, the admins decided to react and try to create something new. Due to either the quality of the "something new" that we created or the overall malaise affecting the LFS community, so far these proposals haven't received the proper testing/attention we'd like to see them receive. So we're a bit frustrated when we see a call for change, respond to it, and get complaints in return (largely from those who haven't given the change a fair shake).
DWB, you know i tested about every new release extensively. I would not post my opinion out of the dark without testing the stuff. It's just that: The frame with LFS we are currently having does not allow anything revolutionary. This is a try of breaching out of the boredom but you just get returned by the edges of the frame, where every time in the developement you hit points where you can't change anything. That's the point just creating the boredom.
Your ideas of inventing something new are good but you can't go out and request that it's hitting positive replies, see it positive, no criticism, nothing to optimize, no new thoughts or ideas.
Your ideas of inventing something new are good but you can't go out and request that it's hitting positive replies, see it positive, no criticism, nothing to optimize, no new thoughts or ideas.
A lot of the people who have stopped competing in LFS aren't the sort of people who post on the forum. I haven't tested the new class myself, no - I can't even mount my wheel to my current desk - but I'm relaying what others have said to me.
If the aim of the changes is to make things more enjoyable for the people who are already active then fine, this will probably do. But imo the people who can't be bothered to spend more than five laps practicing for an event because they're bored of LFS aren't going to persevere for hours with a car which feels 95% the same as something they've driven for the past four seasons.
A lot of people won't bother to test this stuff for a useful amount of time, but there's just nothing we can do about that. A couple of times last season people started races for us without even doing a lap before the event - that's not something every team can control.
This isn't an attack, it's just my opinion. Not many people are offering any critique and the fact that I haven't driven the new cars isn't going to change any time soon.
If the aim of the changes is to make things more enjoyable for the people who are already active then fine, this will probably do. But imo the people who can't be bothered to spend more than five laps practicing for an event because they're bored of LFS aren't going to persevere for hours with a car which feels 95% the same as something they've driven for the past four seasons.
A lot of people won't bother to test this stuff for a useful amount of time, but there's just nothing we can do about that. A couple of times last season people started races for us without even doing a lap before the event - that's not something every team can control.
This isn't an attack, it's just my opinion. Not many people are offering any critique and the fact that I haven't driven the new cars isn't going to change any time soon.
Well you haven't been on the server testing to see the moaning, so that could be why you ask that question. It's funny you say "grow up" though, it really is. As DWB said, interest has slacked severely and people wanted a change. Then when something new is proposed opinions fly on how it should be changed or is pointless before it is even tested. I don't see how telling people to actually test it instead of wanting another change without testing is in anyway of me "growing up".
Looking at your first reply in this thread "It feels the same, 800hp plz" just makes me want to quote you. Grow up and learn that not everyone feels the same as you about everything.
You're missing the point. That was an opinion relayed from two other people. I was stating my (or their) opinion(s). At no point do I bash other people for having different opinions. Do you understand yet?
I can understand your frustration with people not testing stuff as much as you'd like, but that just isn't going to change. People are entitled to different opinions and you shouldn't bash people for simply feeling differently than you do.
One other point: if it's adopted, this new GT1 will only be used by 6-8 squads out of 30. The other 22-24 teams can use the old GT1 and GT2 cars (albeit a tiny bit altered and with new class names) if they prefer them. We aren't asking to do away with the old classes, just adding a new one on top. 
We aren't bashing them for having a dissenting opinion. We're questioning the time and consideration they put in to come to that opinion.
Actually I have to apologise to Phil because I misread his post. I thought he said that people were moaning about the new class but I think he was actually referring to people moaning about the state of LFS and the devs' work in general, which I agree happens (and which I myself partake in :P). Sorry.
In case it isn't already clear; I personally would welcome a new class - even if the class itself isn't what I'd choose I'd prefer something new/different over nothing.
In case it isn't already clear; I personally would welcome a new class - even if the class itself isn't what I'd choose I'd prefer something new/different over nothing.
Hug it out?
You got it right this time hehe. If I come off as bashing its just because I'm frustrated by the lack of testing, as that does get old over time. I think it's just the ridiculous off-season I had with testing about 9 different new vehicles that, in the end, lead forward to these three that I made over a year ago being selected. So yeah, keyword for me is frustrating.
Thats the worst news this far :/ Personally i would like to have full grid just GT1 cars :P But then again the skill difference would be bigger.
But if there is 6fast cars and 24slower ones fighting each others there will be a lot lot more hard overtakes to lapped cars.
Lots of people look back on the old era (full GT1 grid) as being the pinnacle of MoE, in terms of driver performance. Actually, it wasn't.
A few months ago I flicked through a couple of old MoE races. In KY3 we were in 3rd with a hotlap setup and glowing red tyres. We had NFI what we were doing, but we were 3rd? Top teams crashed far too often and still won because they had such a time advantage. Performance now is much higher than that. We have seasons of experience with these physics and we are all making less mistakes as a result. World record setups and MoE champion setups have also become widely available, increasing performance across the grid.
So why is the perception that standards have decreased? And where has the excitement gone? In my opinion, class racing is to blame. Now half of the grid don't care what the other half are doing. Finishing 5th today feels like finishing 10th used to and a win is half as exciting. The thought of winning on an 8 car grid is even less inspiring.
I propose that we put everyone back in to the new GT1 class and let natural selection run things. A 3-way battle between Sirius, 3id and F1RST would have made for an epic season last year. LFS isn't dead, class racing is just killing the thrill and dividing up drivers who should be racing with each other in to mini-races.
The last thing you need to do is add a third class and reduce the size of each grid further. I feel this would be a step in the wrong direction.
A few months ago I flicked through a couple of old MoE races. In KY3 we were in 3rd with a hotlap setup and glowing red tyres. We had NFI what we were doing, but we were 3rd? Top teams crashed far too often and still won because they had such a time advantage. Performance now is much higher than that. We have seasons of experience with these physics and we are all making less mistakes as a result. World record setups and MoE champion setups have also become widely available, increasing performance across the grid.
So why is the perception that standards have decreased? And where has the excitement gone? In my opinion, class racing is to blame. Now half of the grid don't care what the other half are doing. Finishing 5th today feels like finishing 10th used to and a win is half as exciting. The thought of winning on an 8 car grid is even less inspiring.
I propose that we put everyone back in to the new GT1 class and let natural selection run things. A 3-way battle between Sirius, 3id and F1RST would have made for an epic season last year. LFS isn't dead, class racing is just killing the thrill and dividing up drivers who should be racing with each other in to mini-races.
The last thing you need to do is add a third class and reduce the size of each grid further. I feel this would be a step in the wrong direction.
2010-2011 Season Proposed New Car Classes
(159 posts, started )
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