+1

At the moment the test classes are just experimental for the time being so nothing is final, i do agree with adding a 3rd class might spoil the racing upfront but the admins have to see what the feedback is like and make a decision from there.

+1 to Jack. That is what made GTAL so fun, because there were so many cars to battle with, in the same class. That is why GTAL has such success, imo. Though, I would perfer IGTC and MoE to run one class each, if not its coming a bit too smiliar again, imo. So like: IGTC = GT2, MoE = GT1 or the opposite. Thats just my opinion Winning a race when driving against 7 others isnt really fun, imo.

I do agree that 3 classes for MoE isn't the way to go, 2 is enough. Perhaps the application form should ask what people would do if it was only 1 class - except I think that having only 1 class would put people off joining if they were not going to get anywhere near the front in the single class. If there was one class to get the chop it would be the new GT3, as this is already done in GTAL.

Quote from boothy :

I do agree that 3 classes for MoE isn't the way to go, 2 is enough. Perhaps the application form should ask what people would do if it was only 1 class - except I think that having only 1 class would put people off joining if they were not going to get anywhere near the front in the single class. If there was one class to get the chop it would be the new GT3, as this is already done in GTAL.

yeah, and it works so good in GTAL, the "problem" is that none of us can drive it really, because we're not amateurs :P

I would've joined GTPL, Gran Touring Professional League anytime! (GTAL, just with experienced drivers :P)

Quote from v1rg0 :

So why is the perception that standards have decreased? And where has the excitement gone? In my opinion, class racing is to blame. Now half of the grid don't care what the other half are doing. Finishing 5th today feels like finishing 10th used to and a win is half as exciting. The thought of winning on an 8 car grid is even less inspiring.

I propose that we put everyone back in to the new GT1 class and let natural selection run things. A 3-way battle between Sirius, 3id and F1RST would have made for an epic season last year. LFS isn't dead, class racing is just killing the thrill and dividing up drivers who should be racing with each other in to mini-races.

The last thing you need to do is add a third class and reduce the size of each grid further. I feel this would be a step in the wrong direction.

I strongly disagree.

In GT1 in the past few seasons we've had five, maybe six teams who stood a reasonable chance of winning. Two or three that challenged for a win regularly. By far the better action was in GT2, because it's the class that more people wanted to drive.

Having those same five or six teams fighting 25 other teams thrown into a class they don't like and perhaps aren't capable of driving well doesn't sound like a good recipe to me.

With 7-8 teams in the new GT1 we give the best guys from old GT1 a new challenge, and give a couple other teams a stepping stone up/some experience. Some of the guys who started in GT2 in the last season or two can step up to the new GT2 (old GT1), and there's still plenty of room in the new GT3 (old GT2) for those who either prefer that car or are new to the series.

By the way, after the test races we will have another poll with several options for which classes will be used. All options will probably not be available (i.e., probably not a new GT3/old GT2-only option), but all of the viable ones should be there.

In the meantime, please do devote some time to testing the new GT1 before writing it off, or before deciding everyone should run it.

I completely agree with you as well jack. There were some rumors of MoE not even coming back and a few of us was going to try and start another big gtr league similar to MoE, but with just the new GT1's.

We were looking at it as:
Gtal: GT2 (new GT3)
IGTC: GT1 (new GT2)
Blah: new GT1

Of course its just dreaming haha but its a good stepping stone let's say to the "top of the top".

Anyways I do agree as well that dividing everyone more, or even the same as before, could become a problem.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

In GT1 in the past few seasons we've had five, maybe six teams who stood a reasonable chance of winning.

5-6 potential winners in 5-6 races is potentially a different winner every race.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Having those same five or six teams fighting 25 other teams thrown into a class they don't like and perhaps aren't capable of driving well doesn't sound like a good recipe to me.

If MoE is truly about stretching driving ability and not about making us content with it, then this shouldn't be an issue. For any teams stepping up I would be happy to share all of our MoE sets with them to help them get started, which would only be fair.

@Poll - It's worth including this option, it seems enough people like it.

Quote from v1rg0 :

If MoE is truly about stretching driving ability and not about making us content with it, then this shouldn't be an issue. For any teams stepping up I would be happy to share all of our MoE sets with them to help them get started, which would only be fair.

Have fun stretching their ability when they don't show up.

Hmm.. i know i probably don't belong in this thread seeing i havn't done MoE before but i think i will be this season. I see everyone is debating about the new GT1 class and saying it's a possibility it will ruin the racing in ways.

I don't know if its already been discussed but i thought i should mention that you should plan some sort of a short test race or something, if there is time.

Quote from xtraction :

Hmm.. i know i probably don't belong in this thread seeing i havn't done MoE before but i think i will be this season. I see everyone is debating about the new GT1 class and saying it's a possibility it will ruin the racing in ways.

I don't know if its already been discussed but i thought i should mention that you should plan some sort of a short test race or something, if there is time.

Thank you for this wonderful contribution Mr Scouse. In Liverpool maybe they should start teaching you to look and read a bit better:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=70880

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Have fun stretching their ability when they don't show up.

Why would you want anyone who you have described as incapable of driving well to turn up in the first place? I'm failing to see the loss to the series.

Quote from CSF :

Thank you for this wonderful contribution Mr Scouse. In Liverpool maybe they should start teaching you to look and read a bit better:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=70880

ah, thanks for that. Maybe they should eh.. :/ I dont see why everyone is knocking it when they havnt seen all 3 classes in a real race yet.. I think people should just wait before they make assumptions on how its going to effect the forthcoming season. I know testing has gone on, but how about just waiting for the real conclusion.

Ok i have to admit now i got my wheel setup a bit better and a little more time in the car the GT0 FZR does feel alot better and it's actually quite nice to have a lot of power under your foot but i still don't think the FZR's tyres are made for it and thats where i was struggling, has anyone done a full stint yet?

Quote from v1rg0 :

Why would you want anyone who you have described as incapable of driving well to turn up in the first place? I'm failing to see the loss to the series.

The loss to the series is a lot smaller fields and a lot less interesting racing.

With multiple classes we have a larger number of competitive teams and a more challenging racing environment (lapping, being lapped). We also have a built-in stepping-stone system for climbing up to the fastest cars.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Ok i have to admit now i got my wheel setup a bit better and a little more time in the car the GT0 FZR does feel alot better and it's actually quite nice to have a lot of power under your foot but i still don't think the FZR's tyres are made for it and thats where i was struggling, has anyone done a full stint yet?

Yes, several people have. It certainly takes more tire management/skill than the current GT1s.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

The loss to the series is a lot smaller fields

I wager the field won't be smaller than the proposed 8 cars, but the only way to know for sure is to put it to the polls.

If we had 30 top teams that were all super competitive and you never knew who would win the next round, then yes all one class would be the ideal choice. What I think Ben is getting at is there is only 6-8 teams that would actually be able to win a race, and the other teams would soon get bored of finishing 8th or worse every round. So by putting those top 8 into one class, you have another class (or two) to let the other teams have their fun.

Quote from PMD9409 :

If we had 30 top teams that were all super competitive and you never knew who would win the next round, then yes all one class would be the ideal choice. What I think Ben is getting at is there is only 6-8 teams that would actually be able to win a race, and the other teams would soon get bored of finishing 8th or worse every round. So by putting those top 8 into one class, you have another class (or two) to let the other teams have their fun.

Well so far it's not working, is it? There were no new winners because GT2 was dominated by top GT1 drivers.

If we're really serious about making more winners then divide it in to 32 classes and everyone can "win". Or, we could just go back to pure racing with the top drivers on one grid in the same cars.

Quote from v1rg0 :

Well so far it's not working, is it? There were no new winners because GT2 was dominated by top GT1 drivers.

If we're really serious about making more winners then divide it in to 32 classes and everyone can "win". Or, we could just go back to pure racing with the top drivers on one grid in the same cars.

Point taken. Last year probably shouldn't have had a dominating team like that in GT2, as it made everything lop-sided. Another fall back of the multiple classes is that we had 12-14 GT1's at the start of last season, and we ended with about 8. So if we start with 8, what will it drop to? 5?

However if classes remain I think teams should be placed in a class with teams the same pace as themselves, if not we have total domination like in gt2 last season.

Let's just get the car testing out of the way, and then when a poll comes up we can continue this discussion.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Let's just get the car testing out of the way, and then when a poll comes up we can continue this discussion.

A couple of our GT1 lineup did quite a bit of testing earlier. On high fuel with R3s they agree with your conclusion that the power level is about right. I'm happy to support that view in hindsight. Anyone who thought it needed more power should give it a try.

Great to hear you guys put some time into it. I hope others are doing the same.

+1 for Jack

NO. Triple class plox