Quote from DarkTimes :

OK, well... I can't think of anything to say back to that. It would be nice if you would learn about the different cultures and religions of the world, about what they think, how they dress and why they believe the things they do. Seven billion people in the world, you know, might be nice to find out who you share a planet with. You might be like me and figure out that they're actually OK really.

LOL, I believe most ordinary people are OK no matter what their beliefs. I also believe religion stops people from integrating, I believe religion is the cause of most conflicts too, so I'd rather get to know the person before their beliefs. And I wouldn't dismiss anyone just because of what they believe in. IMO religion is there just to mislead people and it's just another "tool" to divide and conquer us all.

just use LRAD on the fkers !

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

The defence in law stems back to when we needed Sikhs to fight for us (yes, we changed the law to suit a minority religion, but it helped us win many wars). It also applies to any religion that requires you to wear a bladed item, not just Sikhism.

Kirpans are dull, I distinctly remember in my school (circa...about 9 or 10 years ago) a Sikh boy explaining the kirpan to his RS class, and going on about how it is meant

To go off topic for a moment...that law, at least for the police's view of it, is total BS.

I as a practicing Wiccan, carry my athame to my work/meetings (a riding stable which has a veeery small coven, I help with ceremonies there so it's needed that I take an athame. Which, for U41K's benifit, is a blunted blade), and I've been stopped five times in the last couple of months. I teach two Sikh kids who are amazing riders...they carry kirpans with them, go past the same police, nothing. Yes, some branches of Wicca do in fact require you to carry a bladed item at times (athame, sword for instance. Both blunt). Also, the law states you can carry a bladed item up to a certain size. Again, my work's fallen foul of this at least twice. Each time I've played the ceremonial aspect up. Once I got away with it, the other time they confiscated it and returned my blade within a week.

Let's assume that it does apply to any religion, then why is one (minority) religion being stopped and another (less minority) religion being allowed to carry blades? In an ideal world, it'd be one law for all.

As for the looters? Sending in the army won't help at all, it will just inflame the situation immensely. Water cannons are fairly effective, but hard to get a hold of. Or for that matter drive through a crowd of rioters.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Let's assume that it does apply to any religion, then why is one (minority) religion being stopped and another (less minority) religion being allowed to carry blades? In an ideal world, it'd be one law for all.

Unfortunately you fell foul to ignorance. It is easy to spot a Sikh and most police officers know that they have a religious defence for carrying a blade. Unfortunately very few police officers know the law (they only enforce it, they don't have to know it) and Wiccan is little known religion (a lot of people still assume all Wiccans do is slaughter virgins and I wish I was making that up) all they see is a guy with a blade. But once they get back to the station and book in the weapon they'll find out that you were legally allowed to carry it and as such return without charge.

All you can do is memories the act number so when a bobby queries why you're carrying tell him to look it up. Or start a National Practising Wiccan ID programme, so when the BiB roll up, whip out your Wiccan ID.

I get asked that daily, I've taken to turning up at work in a pentacle t-shirt and generally making it as obvious as possible and having the act number and the act taped to the inside of my jacket. Comes in really...really handy at times. I can just pull out the sheet of paper and print off more copies. Sidenote: They never did object to me carrying a sword into the stable however...

Either way, any truth to the rumour that the police want to use rubber bullets?

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Either way, any truth to the rumour that the police want to use rubber bullets?

Only a small number of officers in the UK are allowed to use rubber bullets (firearms officers mainly). I've not seen any request to use rubber bullets so far (other than from members of the public), but here is an interesting read.

Quote from e2mustang :

just use LARD on the fkers !

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Gotta love this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl ... iots-iran-condemns-police

This could be straight out of The Onion.

Funny because I think the oppopsite. I think the British police are being entirely too lax about this situation. What, are things just going to magically return to civility once everyone's shop is destroyed?

Nice to see some British youth showing some initiative.

Quote from e2mustang :

just use LRAD on the fkers !

It's LRAD, but +1.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

That would definitely drive the Muslims into hiding. XD

http://twitpic.com/63k6tg

Things are indeed messed up in England when Millwall's fans have to be the good guys...

meanwhile, at the Apple store in London:



That's still some expensive glass.

Quote from 5haz :

Its all such a shame, something could've been done to stop the culture that lead to these riots growing, but the seeds began to be sowed over 20 years ago and now its ingrained in the most deprived of each new generation. A complete lack of respect or pride in anything. I think it may be too late to ever reverse the trend. A combination of state neglect, ignorance, and rampant commercialism has made many people both deprived and greedy, setting them up for savage behavior as they feel entitled to the goods they can't have.

I'm sick of people being surprised and outraged, as if this thuggery has come from nowhere without cause. The truth we've had it coming for so long and it seems nobody including myself really saw it coming. No doubt the response will be outrage and class/race hate and the subsequent crackdown will only prime the country for even more violence.

Straight out of the Guardian. Started 20 years ago did it? Oh it's Thatcher's fault. I get it. it's always Thatcher's fault! default Guardian readers position - blame Thatcher. NEWSFLASH - It's not Maggie's fault.

State neglect? A lot of these kids get free education, free healthcare, free welfare, & free housing. Yes the conditions they live in are not comparable with the wealthier in the community, but compared to MILLIONS around the world these kids are millionaires.

When will this term state-neglect stop. They've not been 'neglected'. Far from it. Yes there are clearly problems, but these kids live in a freakin' paradise than kids who live in the crime filled slums of the world. Stick em in the slums of India and they might change their tune pretty damn quickly. Mind you it's rampant capitalism dragging millions of Indians out of poverty...oh the HORROR!

There are failures somewhere, but this line of 'state-neglect' is as invalid as blaming multi-multiculturalism and welfare causing 'laziness'.

Quote from Intrepid :

blah blah compared to MILLIONS around the world these kids are millionaires.

Compared to dead people, starving people have NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD. They should stop MOANING about STARVING and be GRATEFUL they aren't DEAD.

Compared to Bill Gates, my bank account is pretty shitty. Think I'll take up an iron pipe and go wander the streets for a bit.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

An aged reader in the Guardian comments section writes:

"How can these poverty stricken disenfranchised 'children' actually afford these smart phones ?"

Quote from Intrepid :

State neglect? A lot of these kids get free education, free healthcare, free welfare, & free housing.

I just heard they are using BlackBerries to get themself together for looting... another thing for free and never enough.

I think BBerries IS ENOUGH.

I don't think these kids are lacking either, and even if they are, committing crime for short term materialistic and excessive (really, MACs?) rewards pretty much lost all my sympathy for them.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Nice to see some British youth showing some initiative.

Demonstrating that they are employable I suppose.

Kinda reminds me of that drunk teenager in Lithuania, who broke into a churh and started ringing bells at midnight Grannies all went crazy

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Demonstrating that they are employable I suppose.

or if they would want they could.

but if you get their finance folders I think you could get rid of them. All of them. At least FREE BERRIES



...well... I would

Quote from Intrepid :

Straight out of the Guardian. Started 20 years ago did it? Oh it's Thatcher's fault. I get it. it's always Thatcher's fault! default Guardian readers position - blame Thatcher. NEWSFLASH - It's not Maggie's fault.

State neglect? A lot of these kids get free education, free healthcare, free welfare, & free housing. Yes the conditions they live in are not comparable with the wealthier in the community, but compared to MILLIONS around the world these kids are millionaires.

When will this term state-neglect stop. They've not been 'neglected'. Far from it. Yes there are clearly problems, but these kids live in a freakin' paradise than kids who live in the crime filled slums of the world. Stick em in the slums of India and they might change their tune pretty damn quickly. Mind you it's rampant capitalism dragging millions of Indians out of poverty...oh the HORROR!

There are failures somewhere, but this line of 'state-neglect' is as invalid as blaming multi-multiculturalism and welfare causing 'laziness'.

Once again, you show how out of touch with reality you are, just because people receive welfare doesn't mean they receive enough to live off, just because people get council housing doesn't mean its not rotting with years of broken promises to repair. But the Daily Mail would have you think these people are living in mansions on enormous handouts, perhaps they sprinkle in a few anomalous cases and try to make them look like the status-quo, and the saddest thing is people like you swallow it without question.

Also you need to distinguish between trying to justify the riots and explaining their cause, they are two different things although again much of the right wing media would rather you only thought in black and white, either for or against the riots.

I just thought I'd throw this into the mix. It was posted by a London copper in another forum.

Quote from A London Copper :

Right,

all you leftie scum sympathisers need to shut the **** up RIGHT NOW.

You all bleat on about how there must be some deeper underlying cause and it would be better to understand it.

**** and **** have hit the nail on the head.

This was nicely demonstrated as a colleague and I attended the Balham Kebab Company last night to get some dinner (it was the only place left open, other than grubby chicken places, which were just refuelling stops for the scumbags anyway)

As we walk in (pretty much plain clothes other than our stab vests) a woman was talking to this little Asian kid, must've been about 14.

After he made a comment about a free TV, the conversation went something like this:

Woman - "So did you go out looting then?"
Kid - "No. I was out with my friends in Clapham though"
"Were your friends looting?
"Some of them. Most of them were just smashing stuff up"
"So you friends were out stealing then. Why were they doing it?"
"Free stuff, innit."

He then went on saying that its fun smashing things up, especially cos the police can't do anything. All this was being said as we sat at the table behind him. He hadn't even clocked that we were there, and other people in the shop were starting to giggle as he bleated on about his mates stealing and getting all this free gucci gear, having not realised there were two coppers sat behind him.

Until he said, "the police are outnumbered though innit"

I said to him

"Not tonight, mate."

This was met by a look on his face that said he had just soiled his pants.

All these armchair critics and lefties, apologising for these little shits, take heed. There is no underlying reason. There is no pent up anger about their downtrodden poverty-ridden boredom-filled lives. It is nothing to do with being oppressed and having little hopes and aspirations. The number of houses I have been in where these little criminals live where there is a plasma TV in each room, each of the kids has an x-box and thousands of pairs of gucci trainers.

They're given everything and yet still want more, citing deprivation and oppression all the ****ing time.

It is about greed. Pure and simple. These little turds live to commit crime. It is their raison d'etre. You know why? Because committing crime is seen as cool. It makes them a bad boy, and being a bad boy gets you "respek" amongst their tribe.

They want all this shit but would rather steal it than pay for it.

That, is the simple truth.

Stop apologising for criminals.