I'm sure there are some nice coppers but that one sounds like a total bell end.
What he doesn't realise is that the underlying anger is not the issue, its the underlying attitude of 'who gives a ****?', that's the problem. That's why kids are so willing to smash up their own communities because they don't care for them, when nothing is invested in a community it loses its value.
Now where does he think this attitude came from? Are people honestly short sighted enough to think this all happened at random?
Also, again he fails to distinguish between sympathising and explaining, I really doubt anyone but a few idiots sympathises with the rioters, we've all seen the videos and pictures of the kind of scummy behavior going on. What a lot of people on the left are saying is "we're not surprised", this is very different from saying you sympathise with them.
How are we going to have an intelligent debate and improve anything if anybody who dares says anything different to "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum", gets shouted down as a lefty sympathiser? People join in with the vitriol for fear of being called out for saying anything different, you only have to look on Twitter or Facebook to see it in action.
If the response to this unrest is going to consist of nothing but high and mighty right wing vitriol, blanket assumptions and uninformed prejudice, then nothing will change for the better. If politicians, corporations and people continue their detached hand-wringing instead of trying to tackle the source of the problem (hint: a loss of all pride, value and respect for community and an attitude of entitlement and greed), then there will only be more riots.
Oh and another hint, cutting public services is not the place to start if you want people to value their community.
Now where does he think this attitude came from? Are people honestly short sighted enough to think this all happened at random?
Also, again he fails to distinguish between sympathising and explaining, I really doubt anyone but a few idiots sympathises with the rioters, we've all seen the videos and pictures of the kind of scummy behavior going on. What a lot of people on the left are saying is "we're not surprised", this is very different from saying you sympathise with them.
How are we going to have an intelligent debate and improve anything if anybody who dares says anything different to "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum", gets shouted down as a lefty sympathiser? People join in with the vitriol for fear of being called out for saying anything different, you only have to look on Twitter or Facebook to see it in action.
If the response to this unrest is going to consist of nothing but high and mighty right wing vitriol, blanket assumptions and uninformed prejudice, then nothing will change for the better. If politicians, corporations and people continue their detached hand-wringing instead of trying to tackle the source of the problem (hint: a loss of all pride, value and respect for community and an attitude of entitlement and greed), then there will only be more riots.
Oh and another hint, cutting public services is not the place to start if you want people to value their community.
It also sounds like a totally made-up chain letter-y story.
Have a problem with authority there Kev? Maybe you should go riotting, **** DA POLEEC
They are all scum, start shooting them, this shit wouldn't fly in the US cos they'd all be dead..
No, I have a problem with total bell ends, as you should be well aware by now.
You make a lot of assumptions there 5haz. You have not seen the whole thread so you have no idea what he is replying to. I posted it for the little story, maybe I should have snipped the rest.
DeadWolfBones, I've known the poster for a number of years and I believe it. You believe what you want.
For the record I don't believe the answer is "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum" but I also don't believe the answer is to give them more free stuff.
As far as intelligent debate is concerned, I haven't seen any of that in this thread. Mostly it's an attack on and unfounded accusations against Intrepid. 5haz, If I have have missed the bit where you suggested solutions then I apologise and ask that you point it out.
DeadWolfBones, I've known the poster for a number of years and I believe it. You believe what you want.
For the record I don't believe the answer is "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum" but I also don't believe the answer is to give them more free stuff.
As far as intelligent debate is concerned, I haven't seen any of that in this thread. Mostly it's an attack on and unfounded accusations against Intrepid. 5haz, If I have have missed the bit where you suggested solutions then I apologise and ask that you point it out.
Not only should we shoot (with real bullets) anyone and everyone involved in the rioting and looting, we should also shoot anyone and everyone who spends more than 30 seconds believing we shouldn't.
There's no fear in the youth of today, they're not scared of concequences, or death. So we will never have control over them until human rights campaigners go **** themselves.
I would say it's mostly an just another opportunity for people to right/left bash away. Dudes lift a bunch of televisions and the answer is of course well of course this was gunna happen, you didn't vote for our guy. duh..!!!.
I've got a better theory... Teenage DNA. Happens every generation. Too bad these kids can't figure out anything better to do with themselves than riot for new pair of trainers. ****ing disappointing tbh.
Well, I just dont believe riots is the way of changing status-quo.
I dont believe giving for free is way of changing status-quo.
The way is always individualistic, where individual can be proud of his gain, especially on known fair enough terms.
And the way is to sweep scums that block that.
I'd like to think that in a functioning society, people don't destroy their own city because they don't want to, rather through fear of what might happen if they do.
Well, most of them...
I wonder what you will find as underlaying reason of some communities NOT getting involved in riots?
I wonder what you will find as underlaying reason of some communities NOT getting involved in riots?
Not slashing public services would be a start, it might help people value their communities more if their public institutions weren't being run down to pay for wars of questionable importance and banker's bonuses, and if people valued their communities then they would become more desirable and less crime ridden, and perhaps businesses would be more willing to invest in the communities.
I already said this in my previous post.
You think bankers bonuses are paid out from the exchequer ?
Don't be daft.
Did you state earlier that this has been brewing since the 80's? Wars of questionable importance and bank bail outs happened recently. Make your mind up.
So you think that the banks should have been left to fall so that we didn't have to make the cuts in order that the country doesn't go bankrupt? Have you any idea what would have happened if the banks fell? Many many big businesses that employ thousands of people are run on huge overdrafts. If a bank fell the overdraft would no longer be available and hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't get paid. Then you would see some real riots.
And you didn't say that in your previous post. The nearest you said was "Oh and another hint, cutting public services is not the place to start if you want people to value their community." Maybe if you tried actually stating your thoughts on what can be done rather than giving "hints" as if you are trying to teach us. Then you might get some intelligent debate that you say you want.
Do you think the bailouts came from thin air? The state has a 65% stake in Lloyds banking group, of which RBS and Halifax are subsidiaries, while the right wing media says your taxes are paying for benefit claimants to live in their big houses, in reality its paying for the heads of these banks to live in theirs. In a fair world they'd be out of a job.
Wars and bank bailouts are just the latest in a long list of times the people have been screwed over in favor of the needs of corporations or career politicians.
To be honest either way there is no painless way out of this, but I object to the people having to take the responsibility for the financial industry's reckless tactics. They caused this mess and as such should take the fall for it. We've bailed them out and as a result they'll probably never learn and it'll all happen again in a few decades time. At least the people not getting paid would include the people who caused the crisis, and Dave C and his pals really could almost get away with saying "we're all in this together".
So? It's a valid suggestion, if I went to the trouble of writing a whole manifesto you wouldn't read it anyway, given the way many forumers are already typing the response to the post they wanted to read rather than whats actually written, before they even reach the bottom of said post.
Thanks?
Blueflame, you're a fucking idiot.
You think this didn't happen before the 80's Which is when you are saying that people started losing respect which has lead to youths thinking it's acceptable to riot and loot.
You clearly have no idea the state this country would be in if the banks were not bailed out. It pisses me off too that these bankers screwed us over and are now getting bonuses again but I still agree with the bailout. The alternative would have been a whole world more pain that you seem to think based on that paragraph.
You are the one who said you wanted a intelligent debate and thanks for deciding for me what I would read and what I wouldn't. Arrogant one liner "hints" does not make an intelligent debate. I hope I wont be rising to any more of your bait.
Hehehe
The games made me do it theory...
Its about generations, the majority of the rioters appear to be from the 90s born generations, and these people had parents who were affected by the governments of the 80s. No doubt those who rioted in the early mid 80s and their parents were influenced by the political, financial and social situation of the 60s and 70s. Just because a government is voted out of power, it doesn't mean the legacy of their policies does not last.
A lot of pain, but the suffering would be more fairly distributed. If either way we're going to suffer, then its best that we don't let those who caused the suffering get away with their actions. Perhaps if the financial sector was allowed to get burnt it might come away hurt but wiser for the future. We keep giving these organisations second chances and every time they go and make the same mistakes.
When you see masses of people struck by indignant surpise because a major national problem they were completely ignorant to suddenly rears its ugly head, it gets very difficult not to become condescending. People just don't get it. Its not like I would've predicted this, but now its happened at least I can see the ways in which its come about, while others just put it down to 'chavvy scum' without elaborating any further.
Yeah you have a grand theory- stretching all the way back to the governments of the 60s. Surprised you didn't include a reference to the fall from paradise. Fact is, you're making excuses for these kids. If they were being used as chimney sweeps, I would have excused this.
"the people have been screwed over in favor of the needs of corporations or career politicians."
Governments have been doing this for hundreds of years not just the last 40. THAT was my point. I'm a child of the 70's, I was taught respect. I was taught that if you want something you work for it. If I got into trouble when I was out I was more afraid of my mother and father finding out than anything else. I will try to teach my daughter the same values.
You really have no idea. Half the country out of work? Empty supermarkets? It would be a whole different level of suffering. No exageration. Banks are so much a part of what makes the world work these days that they cannot be simply left to fail. I agree the bankers should have suffered but your solution is just bonkers. Unfortunately it isn't even as simple as taxing them huge amounts as they'll just vote with their feet and UK will be screwed again. It's a mess, no denying that.
Many people have been saying for years that our youth are going to one day be out of control because they are pandered to the whole time. Police are left powerless, school teachers can't even raise their voice any more. Coupled with the reasons you give,yes I agree it's part of it. The only surprise is that it took till now to happen.
So how about some workable solutions that don't involve bankrupting our country?
London/UK Riots
(461 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG