It's really good too that Mexicans can go buy guns in the USA to bring home without much trouble. Definitely a plus side of having gun freedom.

Quote from sinbad :

And guess where the vast majority of the guns in those cities come from.
Gun shops north of the border.

Seems border patrol don't care so much about what goes the other way.

If you watch the last american top gear you can see the searching methods

Quote from flymike91 :

Please inform us which war was fought and won without guns. You're exaggerating

How many terrorist and iraqis have american citizen killed with their firearms at homeland?

The Army needs gun but citizen doesn't. If homeland invasion happens it will be mass bombing, drones and biological weapons, not something you can shoot at.

Wars are not won with guns, it's a fact. Only in small conflicts on a domestic scale does it play a pivotal role anymore.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

If you watch the last american top gear you can see the searching methods

Like this you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwo4PEk5B8A

Is it a coincidence that 1 in 8 of all gun shops in the entire USA are in border towns and cities? (Mexican not Canadian). The gangs and cartels pay US citizens with clean records to buy guns and drive them across the border.

The drugs going north are the reason, of course, but it's obvious that guns going south have contributed in no small part to the terrible murder rates in places like Juarez.

Well isnt the gun control of mexico (ex what guns come across the border to mexico) its own priority? It isnt to just fall on america, we are mire concerned about what comes in (such as actual mexicans and drugs)

Quote from Mustangman759 :

Well isnt the gun control of mexico (ex what guns come across the border to mexico) its own priority? It isnt to just fall on america, we are mire concerned about what comes in (such as actual mexicans and drugs)

Do the USA only do something to help if the weapons aren't sold by them, and aren't real?

In all seriousness, though, I am surprised that Mexico do not police their border more appropriately, except for that in terms of available resources, they must have far far less with which to do that, but I still think that the USA has a responsibility as the "bigger country" to address this problem, and it isn't doing so. It's like nobody cares what happens with American guns until they kill Americans, even though the "war on drugs" is also, in part, being fought against people with those weapons (people whose power is derived from them also) by US forces and by Central and South Americans.

Quote from flymike91 :

It is logistically and constitutionally impossible for the government to remove all 350,000,000+ guns without sparking a civil war, so if your goal is to save lives you're going about it the wrong way.

Mass murder and citizen disarmament go hand in hand, with Nazi Germany being the best example.

Australia disagrees.

Since 1996, no mass murders.

Australia does not have a problem with violent crime in general, and really didn't before the handgun ban either (I am aware of the few incidents that drove the ban). The US, UK, and parts of continental Europe and Scandinavia have a major problem with violent crime where the same laws are in place. The US solved many of those problems by lifting gun bans and encouraging 2nd amendment use. The proof is in the 50% reduction in violent crime and homicide over 20 years, and a 50% reduction in homicide after 4 years in Washington D.C. after the ban was declared unconstitutional in 2008. Everyone knows Australians are friendly so congrats to them.

But does everyone also know that the number of rapes per capita in Oslo is 6x higher than in New York City? Only .5% result in a conviction. That is a 70% increase in rape since 2011 with about one rape reported every day. With no means to protect themselves and no chance of justice, the majority are simply not reported. The real "War on Women" is preventing women from having access to an equalizing tool. Women are punished most unfairly by anti-gun laws because they commit almost no gun crimes, yet need personal protection more than anyone else. The police in Norway are obviously not capable of dealing with the extreme increase in violent crime against women, but also will not allow them to protect themselves in a way that is effective.

The great thing about an armed citizenry is that not everyone has to be armed or should be armed to make it safer for everyone. If a rapist wants a nice Norwegian girl tonight, he knows he will be successful. When a rapist wants a Texan girl, she might have a pistol in her purse and could legally shoot him. An armed man could hear her yelling while walking by the alley and also shoot him. Ask an American criminal what he is most afraid of; it's facing an armed would-be victim. Considering how high the rate of rape is in Oslo and how low it is in Austin, it seems to make a difference when a rapist has to weigh his chances of being killed or maimed by a woman.

So.. giving people guns and telling them to use them is lowering gun violence.

Please.. explain how this logic makes sense.

It already has worked. Allowing people to carry guns and training them in their proper use has contributed to a massive decrease in overall gun crime rates and murder rates thoughout the country.

I think it could also work in Scandinavian countries where the police studiously look the other way to ignore the problems they face such as Norway's first rape epidemic. Even a few cases of women fighting back with guns against rapists could bring the overall rate down as rapists realize they rape women at the risk of their own lives, whereas right now the chance of being punished for rape is essentially zero. This is a result of relying on politically correct police and legislators for protection instead of one's self.

I could be wrong, I admit. It may be that in Norway it is a culturally enriching experience for a young woman to be beaten and raped by new and exciting cultures.

Quote from flymike91 :

It already has worked. Allowing people to carry guns and training them in their proper use has contributed to a massive decrease in overall gun crime rates and murder rates thoughout the country.

I think it could also work in Scandinavian countries where the police studiously look the other way to ignore the problems they face such as the country's first rape epidemic. Even a few cases of women fighting back with guns against rapists could bring the overall rate down as rapists realize they rape women at the risk of their own lives, whereas right now the chance of being punished for rape is essentially zero. This is a result of relying on politically correct police and legislators for protection instead of one's self.

I could be wrong, I admit. It may be that in Norway it is a culturally enriching experience for a young woman to be beaten and raped by new and exciting cultures.

Find me some evidence that guns reduce rape-per-capita.
A glance at the statistics ranks the USA higher than Norway, and generally towards the wrong end of the table in recent years at least.

I find the idea that the rapist would think twice because "she might have a gun" highly dubious.
I can just as tenuously link higher rates of rape in the USA with the over inflated ego a gun gives to frustrated American men.

If the raped can have a gun, why can't the rapist have a gun. Then instead of rape, we have a gun war. Everything is a gun war! Get cut off in the supermarket parking lot.. pew pew.

I like how that definitely reduces gun violence. Solve everything with guns. Algebra problems.. just shoot 'em up!

Quote :

Find me some evidence that guns reduce rape-per-capita.

On the graph of DC crime rate trends (posted pg. 7) before and after the handgun ban was lifted, there is a substantial decrease in every category of crime, and a ~15% decrease in sexual assault. Considering the overall crime rate only dropped at all the year the ban was lifted I think is enough to establish a strong relation, but is probably not enough to be credited for 100% of the decrease. Maybe there is value to women who simply feel safer knowing protection is in their purse and not 30 minutes away.

Quote :

I find the idea that the rapist would think twice because "she might have a gun" highly dubious.

That doesn't surprise me, UK criminals are not at all concerned about facing an armed victim. That is not the case in the US, but you have to take my word on that.

@dawsdust: I'm done with you. If you read what I'm writing and responded in kind instead of making whatever inane comment comes into your head we could have a discussion. If I see you're making an effort I will respond.

Quote from Mustangman759 :

Well isnt the gun control of mexico (ex what guns come across the border to mexico) its own priority? It isnt to just fall on america, we are mire concerned about what comes in (such as actual mexicans and drugs)

That argument holds no water when the US is a country known for sticking its nose in other countries' business.

Quote from sinbad :

In all seriousness, though, I am surprised that Mexico do not police their border more appropriately, except for that in terms of available resources, they must have far far less with which to do that, but I still think that the USA has a responsibility as the "bigger country" to address this problem, and it isn't doing so. It's like nobody cares what happens with American guns until they kill Americans, even though the "war on drugs" is also, in part, being fought against people with those weapons (people whose power is derived from them also) by US forces and by Central and South Americans.

I'm given to believe that law enforcement in Mexico is a cesspool of corruption. That'll have more to do with it than anything else. Doesn't help that the baddies there are 100% amoral and finding yourself at the wrong end of them would be scary as shit. Seriously, the things they'll do down there is absolutely appalling. As much as the US has blood on its hands for allowing guns to cross the border (among many, many other things), the Mexican Cartel has proven that it doesn't need them anyways.

When it comes to other countries, though, no one can say anything about gun laws affecting crime rates there. It's a far, far more complex issue than that.

Quote from flymike91 :

@dawsdust: I'm done with you. If you read what I'm writing and responded in kind instead of making whatever inane comment comes into your head we could have a discussion. If I see you're making an effort I will respond.

I'll take your silence as agreeing with me that guns shouldn't be protected by the 2nd amendment. Or would you shoot me for that?

EDIT: These are the outrages that happen in the USA! http://goo.gl/YYlgo bait

Dawedust points out the obvious irony of removing the 2nd amendment. If we ever did it, I bet a few politicians would end up getting shot for it.

As much as we do need to restrict firearm ownership in the US, we have a gun culture (one I will probably join at some point in the future) that simply will not be erased. Honestly, I'd be surprised if anything at all comes of the current legislation push and even then, it'll probably just be smaller clips and maybe (I doubt it) an assault rifle ban for a few more years. Fact is, people with guns tend to selfishly think of their own right and how they can safely operate a gun, but there's that insane minority that make guns a danger to all of us.

Quote from Rappa Z :

Dawedust points out the obvious irony of removing the 2nd amendment. If we ever did it, I bet a few politicians would end up getting shot for it.

As much as we do need to restrict firearm ownership in the US, we have a gun culture (one I will probably join at some point in the future) that simply will not be erased. Honestly, I'd be surprised if anything at all comes of the current legislation push and even then, it'll probably just be smaller clips and maybe (I doubt it) an assault rifle ban for a few more years.

There's no good reason for civilians to have Assault Rifles in any form. I disagree with any guns, but IF (all caps, giant, 10 foot tall if) they had to be legal.. they should be only adequate for the needed self protection.

The idea of having a "militia" in case the government goes rogue is just utterly insane. If it ever got to that, I doubt assault rifles would help considering the other armaments the government has.

Not that I need to worry about that stuff up here. The biggest fear I have is Starbucks closing down.

Of course there's no good reason for assault rifles, but it's not about what's right and wrong anymore. It's all about politics.

I really do believe we need to do something about gun violence (more than the government will ever do, at least), but it's now in the hands of the always truthful, trustworthy and kind-heated guys in DC.

Quote from Rappa Z :

Of course there's no good reason for assault rifles, but it's not about what's right and wrong anymore. It's all about politics.

Right. The logic defying machine of politics.

All these people from other countries whining about our gun laws.... Let them. They don't really have a clue. Most of what I've read from them are typical
rehashed responses. If we were to do something stupid like follow Europes's example, I highly doubt the gang bangers in my neighborhood will comply.
In fact, it would be the green light they've been waiting for.
When there is gun play in my area, cops rarely show up - even after being called. Why? Because they know they'll just get their asses kicked. So when I have to throw down with SSP or M13 or SEC or SWC, I'd have more faith in the bullet hose I have than a 911 call.
These anti-gun types don't have a clue about living like that. In fact, they need to stay where they are at and keep up the arm chair quarterbacking. Cause if they were to make the mistake of venturing out into my neck of the woods, they'd get one hell of a wake-up call.
Like I said, you make a gun law that keeps you from owning a gun, it's NOT going to stop me. And worse it's not going to stop the homeboys down the street one bit. All it's going to do is keep YOU from owning a gun.
Didn't we learn that with Drug laws?

Quote from Racer Y :

All these people from other countries whining about our gun laws.... Let them. They don't really have a clue. Most of what I've read from them are typical
rehashed responses. If we were to do something stupid like follow Europes's example, I highly doubt the gang bangers in my neighborhood will comply.
In fact, it would be the green light they've been waiting for.
When there is gun play in my area, cops rarely show up - even after being called. Why? Because they know they'll just get their asses kicked. So when I have to throw down with SSP or M13 or SEC or SWC, I'd have more faith in the bullet hose I have than a 911 call.
These anti-gun types don't have a clue about living like that. In fact, they need to stay where they are at and keep up the arm chair quarterbacking. Cause if they were to make the mistake of venturing out into my neck of the woods, they'd get one hell of a wake-up call.
Like I said, you make a gun law that keeps you from owning a gun, it's NOT going to stop me. And worse it's not going to stop the homeboys down the street one bit. All it's going to do is keep YOU from owning a gun.
Didn't we learn that with Drug laws?

Comparing gun laws and drug laws is stupid however. Guns directly kill somebody. Drugs (for the most part) do not. You read about shootings, right? How many times do you read about somebody being suffocated by marajuana leaves or injected with pure drugs so they die?

Those 'anti gun types' do have a point. Just as pro gun types have a point and just as people around the world have a point.

Fact is pre-1996, Australia had a murder and gun problem. Post 1996 and the buyback of guns, Australia has had zero mass murders, the goverment bought back somewhere in the region of 300,000-500,000 weapons.

Your area is not the US as a whole. Yes, you live in a rough area (and that's putting it lightly), but do you honestly think the whole US is like your street or hood? It isn't, there's plenty of areas that are on both sides of the debate.

Lastly, rehashed responses? I could say the same for your posts and other American responses, so it isn't just from one side.

Quote from Rappa Z :

Dawedust points out the obvious irony of removing the 2nd amendment. If we ever did it, I bet a few politicians would end up getting shot for it.

As much as we do need to restrict firearm ownership in the US, we have a gun culture (one I will probably join at some point in the future) that simply will not be erased. Honestly, I'd be surprised if anything at all comes of the current legislation push and even then, it'll probably just be smaller clips and maybe (I doubt it) an assault rifle ban for a few more years. Fact is, people with guns tend to selfishly think of their own right and how they can safely operate a gun, but there's that insane minority that make guns a danger to all of us.

So what's the difference between people with guns being selfish and people with cars, or knives, or planes?

There's thousands of responsible butchers and chefs with knives, but there's a tiny, insane minority (as with guns and cars) that make knives a danger.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Not that I need to worry about that stuff up here. The biggest fear I have is Starbucks closing down.

Ugh, Starbucks?

Quote from Racer Y :

All these people from other countries whining about our gun laws.... Let them. They don't really have a clue. Most of what I've read from them are typical
rehashed responses. If we were to do something stupid like follow Europes's example, I highly doubt the gang bangers in my neighborhood will comply.
In fact, it would be the green light they've been waiting for.
When there is gun play in my area, cops rarely show up - even after being called. Why? Because they know they'll just get their asses kicked. So when I have to throw down with SSP or M13 or SEC or SWC, I'd have more faith in the bullet hose I have than a 911 call.
These anti-gun types don't have a clue about living like that. In fact, they need to stay where they are at and keep up the arm chair quarterbacking. Cause if they were to make the mistake of venturing out into my neck of the woods, they'd get one hell of a wake-up call.
Like I said, you make a gun law that keeps you from owning a gun, it's NOT going to stop me. And worse it's not going to stop the homeboys down the street one bit. All it's going to do is keep YOU from owning a gun.
Didn't we learn that with Drug laws?

Man, what a crappy place to live. And you choose to stay there? No wonder there's so many problems.

Seriously, though, that's like saying 'the Gov't should rebuild my trailer every year because I refuse to leave Tornado alley.' How about you don't live in a shite area?

Quote from MAGGOT :

Man, what a crappy place to live. And you choose to stay there? No wonder there's so many problems.

Seriously, though, that's like saying 'the Gov't should rebuild my trailer every year because I refuse to leave Tornado alley.' How about you don't live in a shite area?

its america the greatest nation on earth where everybody wades though 30cm of exceptionalism on their way to anywhere
clearly any other place in the world must be much worse

Quote :

30cm of exceptionalism

Exceptionalism is measured with the imperial system, feet and inches. Please refrain from using your tiny inferior centiwhatevers in my opulent presence.

so 0.33333333333333333333333 yards?