I think that it is not simulated, to get dirt on your tires in rFactor.. If you step on the grass, and back on the tarmac, the tires are the same like you didn't step on the grass... I don't know this for sure, i played rFactor demo just a litlle bit, but my friends who play rFactor say that getting your tires dirty is not implemented, so you can cut the track all you want.. Can someone confirm this?
I think that it is not simulated, to get dirt on your tires in rFactor.. If you step on the grass, and back on the tarmac, the tires are the same like you didn't step on the grass... I don't know this for sure, i played rFactor demo just a litlle bit, but my friends who play rFactor say that getting your tires dirty is not implemented, so you can cut the track all you want.. Can someone confirm this?
I bougth Lfs, because it was the first sim that felt "rigth" - Not arcade game a like.
You write pure rubbish
lol allan. putting a smilie face on the end doesnt make it any more friendly.
i agree that Rfactor doesnt feel or look as realistic as LFS. the car movement just looks strange and unnatural at times. and same goes for handling.
I feel like when it comes to driving technique and strategy, lfs is closer to reality than rFactor. longitudinal grip is a bit strange in lfs. full throttle starts shouldnt be the fastest way. so... bot h games have their flaws but overall LFS is more realistic and more fun imo. The strongpoint of rFactor is that it has real cars and real tracks... what happens when LFS has real tracks and more real cars as well?
i agree that Rfactor doesnt feel or look as realistic as LFS. the car movement just looks strange and unnatural at times. and same goes for handling.
I feel like when it comes to driving technique and strategy, lfs is closer to reality than rFactor. longitudinal grip is a bit strange in lfs. full throttle starts shouldnt be the fastest way. so... bot h games have their flaws but overall LFS is more realistic and more fun imo. The strongpoint of rFactor is that it has real cars and real tracks... what happens when LFS has real tracks and more real cars as well?
im sure just about everybody here will disagree with you especially on the bit about getting no feel through the wheel
you do have a point with the width of the tracks though
i bet he has his wheel set up wrong and never bothered to set it up correctly 
LOL.. are u serious???
So you're basically saying rFactor sort of simulates the situation for a racing driver, whereas LFS simulates the actual car. Personally i don't need the situation simulated so i probably discard alot of that input, and without the proper maths, whats left of the simulation isn't good enough.
I feel the other way round. In LFS I can be one with the car, every action from my side causes a comprehensible reaction by the car. If the car did something, I always know why it did. There is no bullshitting and no canned stuff, everything is true down to earth.
In rFactor, it looks and feels like someone tried to create an illusion of racing, botchering together the physics in a way so they seem right, more or less. As if someone has gathered a collection of if-then relations of action and reaction, and compiled them in one big mess refered to as the ISI engine. If something goes wrong in rFactor, instead of giving me a clear picture, all that happens is a big WTF appearing on my forehead (not literally). Why does understeer mean the FF goes limp? Why does breaking the traction on the rear end mean a spin? These all seem like manifested urban legends that somehow became accepted as fact just because it was repeated often enough. Just like the lateral grip curves with a huge dropoff, that were ghosting around for long enough now.
Well, how much can you, as Demo Racer, actually know about the circuits and cars? What you know is a whopping amount of 12 track/car combos. In S2 there are over 800. How can you judge from Blackwood, that South City is too smooth and too wide?
wheels dont vibrate with angular motion on real cars if yours does get it to the next garage and or junkyard asap
if the rear end steps out the wheel in lfs countersteers all by it self like it would in a real car in rfactor (and all other isi sims for that matter) it plays some random effect which tells you nothing about whaps happening to your car ... and as if that werent bad enough the random vibrations you get mask that effect anyway
when i first played lfs back in the demo test days first thing i thought was "wow that xfg feels just like my daily commuter" (in the end i got fed up with the not up to par tyre physics and forgot about the game until s2 came out)
when i first played rf i felt completely disconnected from the game and the car ... "hovercraft on an excel spreadsheet" (i dont remember who said that)
to me rf is a lot more difficult than lfs mostly because the car doesnt do what its supposed to at all ... ever tried to countersteer in rf ? it just doesnt work and you wanna know why it doesnt ? because rf it a bunch of vastly inaccurate tables fed through an engine which just isnt state of the art anymore
lfs is easy to drive
if the math is correct the feel will be right too and lfs is much further up there in terms of feel than any other sim money can buy
as i said you do have a point about the tracks (personally i dont like any of the s2 tracks muchand almost hate as) fe and so are great though
concerning the rest of that post: you clearly dont understand the term simulation at all
It sounds like SimBin will move away from the ISI engine after their current round of projects. I guess they have realised the limitations in that engine and want something more realistic. If the ISI engine was not showing its age and limitations they would have no reason to move away from it.
One major trouble with the ISI engine is the FF, which you feel is more realistic. You see IRL the following apply...
- You do NOT feel vibration through your wheel, it comes through your body and no fake left/right wobble of your wheel can simulate that feeling, it will only mask other information.
- When you are in understeer the wheel is NOT limp it is felt as a change in pressures only.
And this are just the major issues.
rF FF is just a set of effects that get played when the ISI engine thinks the car has entered X state. Most modern sims create FF from the forces on the front wheels. This includes sims like LFS, NK Pro, RBR and DR.
In the end when you simulate "feel" instead of reality there are problems.
This is why sim like LFS, NK Pro and RBR feel consistent at all times while the ISI engine does not. In ISI sims you are left feeling "what just happened" after an off while the others you think "That was stupid, I should never have ..."
What jerk on oversteer do you mean? In LFS, if you oversteer, the wheel follows the motion of the front wheels, which is a almost perfect automatic counter steer. If you don't experience that, then you don't have your wheel set up correctly. Remember that you have to disable the auto-centering spring in your wheel driver properties, or else the feedback will be completely wrong.
You do realize that most of the bumps you feel in rFactor are probably effects, ie. they don't actually exist on the track surface and probably have no effect at all on the car?
No offense but you talk bulls**t and how do you know what the other tracks are like in lfs your a demo racer and i have played rfactor a bit, I have tired so much to try and like the sim but there is no feel in what the car does just turn off all the drivers aids and then see how you like it then and do the same with lfs then you can tell how diff lfs is to jokefactor.
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=21457
http://www.sendspace.com/file/307ome
Download them two and just watch them and compare how they react to different stuation and the right time like understeer oversteer and easy they can tell how fast it happens
Okay, sorry to be a PITA, but please post atleast once with the S2 account. Just to be sure and to clear any doubts
as long as simbin believes that slip angle curves drop off to about 60% past peak their sims will never be realistic isi engine or not
if you try axus tyre curves for the gtr2 demo youll see that the isi engine isnt anywhere near as bad as the people developing mods for it make it look
I have to agree to that. The GTR2 demo started to behave alot more like LFS as soon as I tried axus modified slip curves. The FF was still rubbish, but atleast the oversteer = spin was gone.
@Alan Dove
The sim of choise is choise by feeling. I bet most of the simmers choose their sim by the feeling and predictions they have and not by mathematical models or slip curve graphs. These come later
For me there are only 2 and half sims that give me the needed information to drive the car and these are LFS and GPL. (Nk was nice but I expect an update before I touch it again). I have never understood how people can drive ISI sims like GTR1&2, rF, GTL (no pun intended) because the feeling is so obscure, unreal and distant for me . When driving any of those I don't get the feeling of driving a car, a race car, I don't get any feeling what the car is going to do. And when I look at the replay to see what caused that snap spin, or why can't I correct slides after certain angles, it just looks so fake.
Therefore saying stuff like rF gives better feeling sound very off to me. Totally crazy if you don't mind
And it doesn't make me like ISI sims any more (or dislike any less) when the most I hear about them is that they are way off on some areas. LFS is on the mark on important stuff, the feeling is great. LFS and GPL, my choises. There is, however, nothing wrong if you happen to like something else.
LFS is not about the looks, it's about the what's between the ears
EDIT: GTR2 was little better but still the feeling was lacking imho
The sim of choise is choise by feeling. I bet most of the simmers choose their sim by the feeling and predictions they have and not by mathematical models or slip curve graphs. These come later
For me there are only 2 and half sims that give me the needed information to drive the car and these are LFS and GPL. (Nk was nice but I expect an update before I touch it again). I have never understood how people can drive ISI sims like GTR1&2, rF, GTL (no pun intended) because the feeling is so obscure, unreal and distant for me . When driving any of those I don't get the feeling of driving a car, a race car, I don't get any feeling what the car is going to do. And when I look at the replay to see what caused that snap spin, or why can't I correct slides after certain angles, it just looks so fake
.Therefore saying stuff like rF gives better feeling sound very off to me. Totally crazy if you don't mind
And it doesn't make me like ISI sims any more (or dislike any less) when the most I hear about them is that they are way off on some areas. LFS is on the mark on important stuff, the feeling is great. LFS and GPL, my choises. There is, however, nothing wrong if you happen to like something else.
LFS is not about the looks, it's about the what's between the ears
EDIT: GTR2 was little better but still the feeling was lacking imho
Ok every racer in lfs would love real tracks in lfs but i don't complain about it i love the tracks we have allready got but jokefactor has only got real tracks because they can afford to buy the licence make be granted to make real tracks and they are alot bigger company then the three man team who has made the best racing game ever
compared to about 10/20 or more makeing jokefactor and there is the community that goes with lfs aswell does jokefactor having like the community lfs has i do not think so, this community is one of the best there is in the gameing worldWait, so you cannot even log in to the main LFS site? Nor to LFS World? What a crappy deal you got, then.
Actually, one dev is doing code/physics/features, another doing tracks and car models and the third is the web-guy, keeping the main site, forums and LFS World running. And this is not going to change, so they cannot "leave the physics" and "do tracks".
Actually, one dev is doing code/physics/features, another doing tracks and car models and the third is the web-guy, keeping the main site, forums and LFS World running. And this is not going to change, so they cannot "leave the physics" and "do tracks".
LFS already has FFB that is years ahead of roflFactor. If you are having trouble feeling when the rear is about to let go then your controller is not set up correctly. LFS does not emulate every bump that you might feel in your real car because not every bump is transfered through the steering wheel in real life. The steering forces and physical feedback generated are perfect... for drivers. Arcade racers may prefer the whole vibrating shaking wheel experience but drivers will prefer more realistic steering feedback over funky effects every time.
The tracks in LFS are not too wide, nor too narrow. Catering to a range of classes, LFS provides various tracks that are suitable for different types of cars. The BF1 is useless at FE Club but shines at an open flowing circuit like Westhill. The more recent tracks in LFS cater to the faster classes very well while our older club style circuits are perhaps better suited to the lower-powered vehicles.
In real life you will find that tracks that used to be suitable for F1 are no longer considered so. This is reality. Not every track will suit every car.
So if the LFS devs added a few lines of code to shake your wheel a bit even though there are no bumps, LFS would be a better simulator. It doesn't really make sense.
A similar improvement would be added brake fade based on amount of time you've been driving, no relation to brake use.
all of the bumps you feel through the steering wheel in rfactor are very entertaining to some but not very realistic.
the car shakes and jumps around IRL but the wheel isnt affected by bumps that much
Alan, i dont understand how you can say that catching a slide is easier in rfactor than LFS.
the car shakes and jumps around IRL but the wheel isnt affected by bumps that much Alan, i dont understand how you can say that catching a slide is easier in rfactor than LFS.
This phrase kinda sums up your point: looks over realism.
lfs needs to implement this rigid tyres of a couple of static polygons that dont interfere in the table numbers the game follows like a robot built by some low quality chinese cloning company.
lfs needs to implement this on-air-cornering(tm) that allows players to corner at jetfighter insane Gs while not touching the draconian(tm) polygon based track.
lfs needs to implement always clean(tm) technology in order to have great grip with 2 wheels on grass.
lfs needs to implement fake rumble effects driven by nothing except a txt file and independant of speed.
lfs needs to implement all the bugs and low quality
lfs needs to implement reflective marble texture base circular spining stands from the 80s with neons.
lfs needs to implement non-realtime, non screen-aspectratio free, slow loading menus.
lfs needs to implement the ability to allow mods from pimpled teenagers who just downloaded some trial 3d program that will allow them to turn shit into pure gold, by letting them brand a few polys with that awesome logo of ferrari or porsche.
lfs needs to stop this annoying thing of allowing ppl to change any garage parameter of the set and instantly feel the difference in the feedback driving of the car. Its so confusing! i have to set dif steer wheel parameters to cope with totally different cars! annoying to say the least!
lfs needs to implement random spasms and trembling FF driven by the awesome feeling of driving over low amount of polygons.
lfs needs to be less of a sim and more of a feeble skeleton where you have to make it look like as if what was underneath , was a sim. what a game that is.
rfactor is the chinese ipod-clone of racing.
lfs needs to implement this on-air-cornering(tm) that allows players to corner at jetfighter insane Gs while not touching the draconian(tm) polygon based track.
lfs needs to implement always clean(tm) technology in order to have great grip with 2 wheels on grass.
lfs needs to implement fake rumble effects driven by nothing except a txt file and independant of speed.
lfs needs to implement all the bugs and low quality
lfs needs to implement reflective marble texture base circular spining stands from the 80s with neons.
lfs needs to implement non-realtime, non screen-aspectratio free, slow loading menus.
lfs needs to implement the ability to allow mods from pimpled teenagers who just downloaded some trial 3d program that will allow them to turn shit into pure gold, by letting them brand a few polys with that awesome logo of ferrari or porsche.
lfs needs to stop this annoying thing of allowing ppl to change any garage parameter of the set and instantly feel the difference in the feedback driving of the car. Its so confusing! i have to set dif steer wheel parameters to cope with totally different cars! annoying to say the least!
lfs needs to implement random spasms and trembling FF driven by the awesome feeling of driving over low amount of polygons.
lfs needs to be less of a sim and more of a feeble skeleton where you have to make it look like as if what was underneath , was a sim. what a game that is.
rfactor is the chinese ipod-clone of racing.
Rfactor vs LFS
(1872 posts, started )
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