Quote from farcar :

I'd be more inclined to get the game reviewed more. From my powers of deduction, the game is good and should get good reviews. Good reviews are free advertising. I see game reviews as a solution to the no doubt prohibitive cost of advertising.

I'm not sure what the procedure if for getting IGN for example to review the game is, or if they've already been approached, or if the game has already been widely reviewed and I just haven't read them. Someone else might be able to answer that.

I do see a problem however in that the game is not 'finished'. Maybe a lot of reviewers are waiting until the fulll version of S3 is out before they review. They don't realise that the game is fully functional as is it is, and that future releases/patches are what many other developers would release as sequels. Although the S1 -S3 evolution is true guage on the game's development, perhaps it is not the best thing for marketing it.

Getting back on topic, I'd like to see more LFS reviews by journos to get the game some more exposure and help fill up the servers.

I too agree that reviews are the way to go, as advertising tends to be quite pricey. But as long as LsF calls itself "Alpha" noone will review it. Reviews are usually written about full versions, and, even though LsF is fully functional, it is not yet the final version of S2. Another thing are previews though...

So the best way to go for the devs IMHO is to hook up with IGN/Gamespy shortly before the release of "S2 Full" and offer them information about the features which have not been published before in any form (including forums and so on). Exclusive stories is T3H SeX0rZ for media.

Coming from the Red Orchestra community, they did another thing which boosted it's fame (allbeit the step was largely critisized in the community...): They made an agreement upon paying Gamespy subscribers could download the newest releases 24 hours before they would be available for the rest of us. Even though I doubt that many subscribers dled it within this 24h (or that many subscribed extra to dl the release earlier, for that matter), the fact that it was prominently (text and picture) on the fileplanet main page for at least this one single day sure resulted in hundreds, if not thousands, of downloads which else would not have been made.
Still, not anyone who is going to dl it will be a "welcome addition to the community" (enough wreckers on demo servers already) , or even stay with the game, but the community would grow nevertheless.

BTW, wasn't this topic about servers?

It does happen - when a patch comes out online play increases for a month or so (especially for larger patches). It always used to happen in S1, and I can't see why it would be different in S2.

The devs have said they won't actually advertise the game until S3. However once S2 is final I think it's a fair compeititor to other racing sims and should be reviewed by all that can review.

Rattus: an interesting idea, I can imagine some people getting annoyed, but when it's for greater good (I mean, if there are more people about, we'll have more fun, and in a month all would be forgotten anyway).

Quote from ColeusRattus :

I too agree that reviews are the way to go, as advertising tends to be quite pricey. But as long as LsF calls itself "Alpha" noone will review it. Reviews are usually written about full versions, and, even though LsF is fully functional, it is not yet the final version of S2. Another thing are previews though...


BTW, wasn't this topic about servers?

yeah it was, but this is still related as it's a bull session to try and determine how to increase the gaming population

Uhhh... getting back to Advertising and reviews....
Well it takes money to make money, so advertising should be done at
sometime. I honestly think it can be done now - Right Now.
Have some sort a catchy phrase like,
"Sure it's only alpha. You couldn't handle the full version" with some hot chick in a racing outfit and screen shots of the game.


But anyways, it enough interest could be generated, then LFS WOULD get reviews whether it was alpha, beta, delta or gamma. Because if it
generates enough interest, people would buy the magazine to read the review
And the only way you're gonna get that interest sparked is with $$$

The downside to this is, if that was done and the interest (demand) for the game got going really strong, there would be a lot of pressure on the devs
to crank out more patches and updates, they'd have to shut the forum down due to all the threads and posts whining for S-3 and Lord knows what else.
Plus it's one thing to be able to deal with five poeple's problems in the course of a day... but what about fifty?

The only way I can see to increase the user base of LFS is to fix the physics problems that it currently has. The "slick tires", "soapy tracks", "driving in the rain" complaints are probably the #1 thing that drives new users of the sim away. Sure, this is a sim, not a game. But even knowing that, the tire physics are still lacking. It's a good thing that the LX6 and RAC aren't the demo cars or I never would have bought S2 because they are WAY too "slidey". The phyics in LFS are pretty darn good, especially for certain cars, but they still need some help. There is a finite number of sim racers and until LFS is on par with the "best of breed" sims out there, nobody is going to abandon GTR or NR2003 for LFS.

I've tried to get my friends to play LFS but when a 120hp car in LFS slides around more than a 600hp car in GTR, they aren't going to make the change. And these aren't NFSU loving arcade fanatics. These are sim guys who should really be the core of LFS's customer base. When someone who's been playing sims since the GPL days can't run a clean lap in the LX6, there's a problem.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

When someone who's been playing sims since the GPL days can't run a clean lap in the LX6, there's a problem.

LFS cars more slippery than GPL? Are you kidding?

Agree with Cue-Ball. LFS has very good physics, but it's true that some cars are too "slidey". Not only LX6 or RAC.. For example RB4 on asphalt goes to skid nearly in every curve. Another problem with braking, stock tyres can blow up after several very short wheel locks - didn't notice on my real car
Problem is that this bugs can discourage new sim racers from buying and even worse, these people can discourage many friends when they tell them that LFS isn't real and that GTR (for example) is better (which isn't true!).

Quote from farcar :

LFS cars more slippery than GPL? Are you kidding?

No, I'm not kidding.

Take the LX6 versus an average GPL car, for example...

A 1967 Formula 1 car weighs about 1200 lbs, has about 400 bhp, and runs bias ply 60's era tires (though they are wider than the LX6).

The LX6 weighs 1196 lbs, has 190 bhp (about half as much as the formula 1 car), and runs modern road tires, which I'm sure any vintage racer will tell you handle better than racing slicks from almost 40 years ago.

I would expect the F1 car to be hard to handle. It's got 400 hp, weighs next to nothing, and has tires that border on dangerous. I would NOT expect the LX6 to be that difficult to handle. It's still light but has less than 200hp, only 130lb/ft of torque, well more than 50% rear weight distribution, and decent, modern tires. There is no way that a car with these specs should be as tail happy as it is. This is a car with only 130hp and If cars handled like this in real life they'd be outlawed because people would be spinning off the road left and right.

My point stands: The people I know who've tried LFS have all been turned off by the driving model. And these aren't people who go play Ridge Racer instead. These are guys who like racing sims, own high performance cars, and drive their cars at track days. Some of the cars in LFS aren't bad (FWD cars and cars with nice, wide slicks seem much better), but several of the current cars border on undriveable. They can be tamed, but they don't behave like a car would in real life. Personally, I think many of the cars feel very much like driving on a wet track. The rear end comes out easy and doesn't "snap" back in line like you would expect of a car on dry pavement.

Edit: Just to be clear, I really like LFS. I personally think it's the best sim I've ever played and I think the devs have done a GREAT job, especially considering the small size of the dev team and the "home brew" nature of the game. However; that doesn't change the fact that the physics aren't quite right yet, IMO.

Quote from Gunn :

That's funny, I played most of the night with several racers and was kept busy until 3 am.

I've just "signed up" to LFS and what an awesome package !!

I agree with some of the previous posts, its a pain whne you log in and find so many empty servers. I must get my head around the filters and see if that helps. Time zones are a pain, but no way to change that problem.

Good to see a few fellow antipodeans on the forums, hope to see you on-line at some stage.