The online racing simulator
Quote from deggis :I was bit surprised that Scawen has been working on the sounds in the first place. That is really great. This kind of hints that we could expect to see bigger sound improvements in the next in-compatible patch, no?

As said 10+n times, BF1 was really horrible. Previously it was good, sounded like a bee but at least it was totally different to other cars. On the other hand LX6 was great, though it was probably previously the best sounding too, now the engine tone is really spot on.

With gear shift sounds I wasn't impressed at all... mostly because I've already used to them with CSR. It needs to be louder and noisier. Gear whine sound like a jet engine, but definately better than no gear whine at all.

If I was Scawen I'd get in contact with Todd Wasson and ask how he implemented these. Check these out, according to Todd these are fully generated. In my opinion sounds better than LFS - sounds also very synthetic but these also has a bit of that noisy rrooooaaarrr feel that LFS competely lacks.

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineWave13.wav
http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSim1.wav


RBR is sampled, just a bit differently than most of the sampled engines. Also DR is sampled, and it is very basic system. Though haven't played it in couple of months... but I guess that part hasn't been changed.

Glad you like them, thanks. I've started Generation III, a total rewrite, recently. Here's a little comparison:

http://www.performancesimulati ... ineSimAudioComparison.wmv

Lots to do yet on it. It's fed by only a single data file from 1 engine rpm and throttle setting at the moment. Should get much better once the rest of the exhaust system is modelled and proper variations for throttle and volumetric efficiency are in.

Due to my not currently having working pedals, I haven't driven any sims in a month probably and haven't tried LFS with the new sounds.
:jawdrop: :faint2:

Holy sh*t!

:weeping:

:sadbanana:


.....


Got any clips of that driving anything? I uh... wouldn't mind hearing that...

EDIT: Just listened to it AGAIN... That's amazing stuff Todd... I still can't beleive it...
I've lost my dumpvalve and 80% of my skid mark sounds in-game going from U30 to U32... not happy. but when I wen't back to U30 I got the skid sounds back but not the dumpvalve.
Has anyone been noticing pedal input problems with the patch? I'm not sure if my DFP pedals are dying or if it's LFS. I still have to test but I could have sworn that my foot was on the gas full throttle and the onscreen throttle display was maxxed yet the car sounded like it wasn't at full throttle. Could be a sound issue . I'll check the replay or see if I can reproduce it.
I hating sound for BF1, it´s not really.. =/
Quote from jtw62074 :Glad you like them, thanks. I've started Generation III, a total rewrite, recently. Here's a little comparison:

http://www.performancesimulati ... ineSimAudioComparison.wmv

Lots to do yet on it. It's fed by only a single data file from 1 engine rpm and throttle setting at the moment. Should get much better once the rest of the exhaust system is modelled and proper variations for throttle and volumetric efficiency are in.

Due to my not currently having working pedals, I haven't driven any sims in a month probably and haven't tried LFS with the new sounds.

every thing about that and the othr work you've done is awsome ......so why is this not in LFS?
Audio honestly isn't any better. Handling is still loose and slippery.
Quote from Dethred :Handling is still loose and slippery.

I've always wondered if you've ever driven a real car before :rolleyes:

I'm actually being sincere
Quote from jtw62074 :Glad you like them, thanks. I've started Generation III, a total rewrite, recently. Here's a little comparison:

http://www.performancesimulati ... ineSimAudioComparison.wmv

Lots to do yet on it. It's fed by only a single data file from 1 engine rpm and throttle setting at the moment. Should get much better once the rest of the exhaust system is modelled and proper variations for throttle and volumetric efficiency are in.

Due to my not currently having working pedals, I haven't driven any sims in a month probably and haven't tried LFS with the new sounds.

Quite a nice effort, but I still think those sounds are horrible to be honest . Unless you are putting a microphone directly into the exit of the exhaust pipe, these won't sound true to form at all. Way too poppy, metallic, and I don't see the 'grumbliness' in it, I only hear distortion and and too much static treble. You need smoothing and other generated sounds to 'soften the edges'.

They may have some quality with the different ranges, but I still think making a completely synthetic sound... and having it sound nice is very hard to do. Your 3rd attempt is actually a bit worse, I think your 2nd one was in the right direction, though it was too dry and grainy.

LFS still has the possiblity of making nice generated sounds, and some cars sound 'ok' so far with this new patch, but others just need more time involved to make them sound 'proper'. We'll get there
Quote from Tweaker :Quite a nice effort, but I still think those sounds are horrible to be honest . Unless you are putting a microphone directly into the exit of the exhaust pipe, these won't sound true to form at all. Way too poppy, metallic, and I don't see the 'grumbliness' in it, I only hear distortion and and too much static treble. You need smoothing and other generated sounds to 'soften the edges'.

They may have some quality with the different ranges, but I still think making a completely synthetic sound... and having it sound nice is very hard to do. Your 3rd attempt is actually a bit worse, I think your 2nd one was in the right direction, though it was too dry and grainy.

I think Todd hasn't even got a muffler there, Tweak.
I thought the physics were very good since the tire physics changed. So i wouldn't have expected changes there anyway.

But again about the sound:

I prefer a generated sound like in LFS over any other sampled sound.

I guess it's easy to have a great "real life" engine sound with samples that we can hear in games like GTR and such stuff. So theres no question that the most realistic sample i can get should be my goal if i work with samples. Like... if i wanna simulate a '06 Porsche GT3, then i will get the best result if i get the best quality recordings there are from a real '06 GT3. So far so good...

But what if i want to generate the sound? Can i ever achieve a realistic sound like i could with a sample? Therefor, should my goal be to make the sound more realistic (like something that could sound like a real engine)?

If it's possible to make a generated sound of a '06 Porsche GT3 for example, then i would say yes, go for the most exact copy of the real life sound. But i doubt that this could be achieved with generated sound (prove me wrong, i have basically not much of an idea about whats possible with generated sound).

In my opinion, if i decide to use generated sound, then i try to copy the characteristic sound of an engine. If it will sound like "i never heard a car that sounds like this, but it totally reminds me of one" then i have achieved this.

Best example before was the BF1. It didn't sound like a real formula 1 car (to achieve this i would use samples), but the only thing i could think of when i reved up my BF1 for the first time was a formula 1 car. Because the engine had the same noise characteristics. It screamed... it was rough... dunno if anybody understands what i'm trying to say... illepall

And before this test patch the cars in LFS did remind me of cars.
They sounded like generated car sounds, but we all prefer them over samples right?

I'm saying this because now we have sounds that really sound more realistic in some way. They don't remind me of generated sounds so much, they rather sound realistic to me in some way (it comes closer to a real engine somehow). But the question is what kinda real vehicle would sound like that? An example that comes to my mind would be a sport bike engine. They sound kinda polished like what we have in LFS now.
But the problem is that i drive a car.

I don't really care about how exactly the XRT sounds... or the BF1, whatever car. As long as it reminds me of a car of that type.

It's like...
Through our lives we experience real cars. And we save in our memory how they sound. But since there are many different types of cars, it cant be just one sound. So we kind of know the characteristics of a sound better than the exact "sample". I mean this like... we can tell how a truck sounds and how a sports car sounds... how a racing engine would sound... etc.
Let's make this an even more stupid example... illepall
Let's say you would have your game sound muted, and would have to simulate the car sound with your own voice/mouth. You couldn't make it sound like a real car, so what would you do?
Exactly, you would try to express the characteristic noise that an f1 car makes, for example.

If somebody would ask me "how does a car sound?", i would say something like: "it goes like VROOOOMMM!!!!" (all those car noises you can make with your mouth ). I would probably not sound like the new Porsche GT3, but you'd get an idea of how an engine sounds.

If the most realistic sound i can make with generated sound reminds me of a vacuum cleaner, then i will replace it with the less realistic one, wich sounds more like generated sound, but aswell reminds me of a car.

I hope this made my point somehow.
Ok, I have let a few "casual" LFS'ers hear the new sounds this morning, and the general concessuss is bad, most of the commets are like "sounds like a car recorded in a bathroom".

We sat down and tried to discover just WHY it sounds bad, and this is what we came up with.

Firstly we looked at the LX-6, we decided this sounds EXACTLY like a V-twin, which generally when "give it large" on a v-twin you get mostly induction noise, and while riding it anyway, not a huge amount of exhaust noise.

Taking this thought to the rest of the cars leads us to believe the reason they sound so "bad" is because of this induction noise thing.

As they are, the sounds are so one dimensional, we need sound layers, I am sure this can be possible with the current sound engine, but I think that if we have induction noise, exhaust noise, and mechanical noise on 3 seperate sound layers, the cars will sound a lot better, at the moment it sounds so one dimensional and flat.
Quote from danowat :As they are, the sounds are so one dimensional, we need sound layers, I am sure this can be possible with the current sound engine, but I think that if we have induction noise, exhaust noise, and mechanical noise on 3 seperate sound layers, the cars will sound a lot better, at the moment it sounds so one dimensional and flat.

Well said.
If I know scawen, and I think I do, anythng he does will have to be simulated in as realistic way as he can find. And just having a lot of layers of sound is not going to work right. You often get some really weird harmonics. The only way to avoid that is to simulate the sounds in the way they are generated in real life and this has been discussed at length in the suggstions forum many times.

The best system I have listend to is RBR habds down. There the engine is a living dynamic thing and damaging any little part will alter its power and sound in a realistic way. nKPro also has a very good base system. I am sure when LFS enters the S3 stage the sound and video aspects will come in to their own.
engine sounds become creepy :(
hi all

I don`t whether I may write it here,

I think engine sounds become creepy after U32

The engine sound before(Until U30) was more natural.

I`m glad to can setup "interface sound"

but,I can`t be accepted engine sound alone

I hope to after patch,make it to the sound of natural feeling like the engine sound until U30.

thanks read
The only thing I have to add at this point (as most things have been said over and over and over and over) is that the low-pass filter is applied too drastically when in exterior camera view - imo, there should be some more headroom for higher freqs when not in "helmet-wearing driver" view.

I briefly tried out almost all the cars at various throttle positions on a set of home-made studio monitors with 10" drivers - no external EQing done, signal goes direct to the amp.

While at high volume (I guess close to real-life dB levels - as the furniture, doors and windows shook, literally) you can distinctly tell there are higher frequency harmonics being produced however they're not brought to the surface at lower gain settings. As I think those microsounds are pretty good currently, perhaps you could consider using some form of simple compression to bring them to the forefront. That way we wouldn't lose that nice rumble that there is currently at the lower frequencies.

Also there are alot of "errant" ones going under the 60Hz zone which would only cause distortion on smaller drivers and are really not that noticeable if they go missing.

Whenever I have time to play with it more I'll post anything else that I find and hasn't been mentioned so far.
Quote from joeynuggetz :Has anyone been noticing pedal input problems with the patch? I'm not sure if my DFP pedals are dying or if it's LFS. I still have to test but I could have sworn that my foot was on the gas full throttle and the onscreen throttle display was maxxed yet the car sounded like it wasn't at full throttle. Could be a sound issue . I'll check the replay or see if I can reproduce it.

You are not the only one, I had a this happen a few time today as well. I also am unsure of its the peddles or the sim. In my case I thing its peddles though as I was not gettign any throttle responce untill I poped it a few times.
Quote from Gimpster :If I know scawen, and I think I do, anythng he does will have to be simulated in as realistic way as he can find. And just having a lot of layers of sound is not going to work right. You often get some really weird harmonics. The only way to avoid that is to simulate the sounds in the way they are generated in real life and this has been discussed at length in the suggstions forum many times.

Sounds of a car engine in real life are very multilayered, you have induction, exhaust, camshaft, valve noise (how about bouncing vavles at high revs?), pinking, piston slap, back-firing, popping, chassis noise, track debris, there is lots and lots going on, only by simulating all this on a seperate sound layer each are we going to get close to getting realisitc sounding cars within the current sound system.

Quote from Gimpster : You often get some really weird harmonics

As you do IRL
Moderators, please do something! This thread is corrupted with Spam and shit like "sound is bad"

Scawen will close the thread if we don't care it
LOst my license?
I installed the patch , and suddenly I am demo racer... Do I have to use another sign up to get full game again? I still have two unlocks to go, but I lose them everytime when there is a new patch?
Quote from underthesky :I installed the patch , and suddenly I am demo racer... Do I have to use another sign up to get full game again? I still have two unlocks to go, but I lose them everytime when there is a new patch?

No, there was a bug in the license system which is now fixed. You merely have to unlock LFS again (and you got another unlock again because of the "not entirely compatible" patch).
Quote from Andreas Grauel :Why cant people read the thread before posting anything?

Please some moderater delete all the spam!

I Thought this thread was about the new patch and its compability? I was wrong obvioysly,
@Andreas Grauel: Like your reply?

About the sounds:
Is it planned that any part of the engine sounds will be simulated in the future?
I'm speaking about the audible influences of manifold, exhaust pipes, muffler, tailpipe, own frequency of the engine block, valve timing etc. ?

I also noticed that when I use a force feedback H-shifter with simulated keypresses for the gears I get a 'pling' sound every gearchange as if I hit an unassigned button.
(Yes, exactly the same. Not similar. They are identical.)

Vain
This thread is closed

OLD test patch thread, up to U35
(851 posts, closed, started )
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