There is no spoon
we speak here about patch W9. You can get the patch after reading the first post in the following thread:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=22757
It's easy enough to assume that the time for gridding the cars up has already passed, and roll-control has already been engaged to keep the cars from moving on the start.
i propose another solution. Allow the driver to take over control on the grid. If the brake or handbrake axis is pulled the autobrake cuts out and control is now in the hands of the anal retentive driver.
Another suggestion would be a sort of ready up system in which the cars appear on the grid with the autobrake (better at this point, since we assume gridding and warmup lap is over, to call it a staging brake or roll control). Much like the start of the Daytona USA games on the oval, a message would be flashed to advise drivers to take over brake control. Now here is where this idea splits. Either the act of taking over braking manually disengages the roll control (with the possibility to add a button specificly for Roll Control like a real race car) and sends the car's status to raced control as "ready"... or Roll Control just cus out after a specific period of time and the car jumps the start. I prefer the frist option, of these two.
I personally dont see the problem with the current system, very user friendly and easy to learn, while not complicated and frustrating for beginners.
Cue-Ball. I have not since tristancliffe seen someone whine and moan so much about something so trivial. If you want to assert the course of a racing sim, go to a college that teaches games and simulation design, and program your own. Else, be a good boy, make a few suggestions (politely) and take what the devs give us. My first thought on the false starts was "Cool. Hey we have false starts now!" not "Stupid Scawen, put my handbrake on... HOW DARE HE!".
i propose another solution. Allow the driver to take over control on the grid. If the brake or handbrake axis is pulled the autobrake cuts out and control is now in the hands of the anal retentive driver.
Another suggestion would be a sort of ready up system in which the cars appear on the grid with the autobrake (better at this point, since we assume gridding and warmup lap is over, to call it a staging brake or roll control). Much like the start of the Daytona USA games on the oval, a message would be flashed to advise drivers to take over brake control. Now here is where this idea splits. Either the act of taking over braking manually disengages the roll control (with the possibility to add a button specificly for Roll Control like a real race car) and sends the car's status to raced control as "ready"... or Roll Control just cus out after a specific period of time and the car jumps the start. I prefer the frist option, of these two.
I personally dont see the problem with the current system, very user friendly and easy to learn, while not complicated and frustrating for beginners.
Cue-Ball. I have not since tristancliffe seen someone whine and moan so much about something so trivial. If you want to assert the course of a racing sim, go to a college that teaches games and simulation design, and program your own. Else, be a good boy, make a few suggestions (politely) and take what the devs give us. My first thought on the false starts was "Cool. Hey we have false starts now!" not "Stupid Scawen, put my handbrake on... HOW DARE HE!".
My name is Tristan. My username is tristancliffe, but I never go by that name in real life. Thanks. You may consider this a moan about a trivial thing. But if people didn't moan about trivial things, stupid people and/or Americans might rule the world and we wouldn't want that...
You know.. just as a gripe while we are at it.. Being American really was'nt my choice. My parents f*cked here, my mother carried me for 9 months, and I was thrown out into a hospital that happened to be within American borders. If I could afford to leave, I probably would.
When I bought my liscence and joined the forum, I thought long and hard about whether or not to list myself as American, because we seem to have this huge bullseye painted on us. I'm willing to bet more than a few of the people listed as Canadian on this forum are atually Americans that don't want to deal with the political bullshit.
Most of us don't support Bush's war any more than you do. We want our people home safe and sound, not in the damn desert dying for people who don't want them there. So, could someone PLEASE tell me.. What do you want from us? Do we just make a convenient universal laughing stock? Are we genuinely unwelcome here?
If the mods feel the need to move this post, feel free. There's really not much more to say.
Tristan, I honestly do not know you well enough to go calling you by your first name as if you are familair to me. Some of us do beleive in manners.
When I bought my liscence and joined the forum, I thought long and hard about whether or not to list myself as American, because we seem to have this huge bullseye painted on us. I'm willing to bet more than a few of the people listed as Canadian on this forum are atually Americans that don't want to deal with the political bullshit.
Most of us don't support Bush's war any more than you do. We want our people home safe and sound, not in the damn desert dying for people who don't want them there. So, could someone PLEASE tell me.. What do you want from us? Do we just make a convenient universal laughing stock? Are we genuinely unwelcome here?
If the mods feel the need to move this post, feel free. There's really not much more to say.
Tristan, I honestly do not know you well enough to go calling you by your first name as if you are familair to me. Some of us do beleive in manners.
(deggis)
DELETED
by deggis
I don't even care to go too far off topic, I just want an honest answer. And in line with the thread that it is a response to seemed the best place to put it.
what is this bullshitting about nations here? 
i mean that kind of approach towards other people is just wrong and racist.
back to topic:
i think the way lfs treats starts at the moment is the best choice unless we have a warm up lap and everyone has to take his starting position by himself.
realism or not, in the first place it is not realistic to be teleported to the grid anyway but we are, therefore the best solution is: the game controls the fact you won't roll off the grid. and starting giving penalties for using that kind of driver aid you can also start to penalize people who use a G25 or a Momo compared to some cheaper wheels....
its a game, it should be fun!
i mean that kind of approach towards other people is just wrong and racist.back to topic:
i think the way lfs treats starts at the moment is the best choice unless we have a warm up lap and everyone has to take his starting position by himself.
realism or not, in the first place it is not realistic to be teleported to the grid anyway but we are, therefore the best solution is: the game controls the fact you won't roll off the grid. and starting giving penalties for using that kind of driver aid you can also start to penalize people who use a G25 or a Momo compared to some cheaper wheels....
its a game, it should be fun!
i meant in terms of taking off at the start
if you either disengage the clutch shift to first rev it and drop the clutch the auto handbrake will turn off the moment you drop the clutch
or if you rev it in neutral and shift up to first the auto handbrake will disengage the moment you shift up
so as far as starts are concerend the auto handbrake is very much user controlled
sure but whats the point of having all sorts of procedures to deal with real life drivers would rather get rid of if they had the choice
eg theres absolutely no point in spending 2 mins clicking buttons in your cockpit to get the engine running ... all it is is a waste of time
for the most part yes ... in that way youre a lot like the welch or east germans just on a more global scale
nope
so americans are a race now huh ?
Hey you skipped my reply & one question, does this mean it's 1-0 for me?
If you were Austrailian I'd have put Australian. If you'd been English I'd have put chav. If you were German I'd have put German. It was not a dig at a 'race' or nationality - I know plenty of Americans both through LFS and real life, and I get on well with them. Many are intelligent. Many aren't. But if you make little snide comments about me then I make big obvious comments about you in return. Simple. Nothing personal you understand.
And manners have nothing to do with it. My name is Tristan. I prefer to be called by my real name than some silly username that websites/internet encourage. If I wanted to be called tristancliffe then I'd sign my name like that and use it in real life. If you want to use manners than Mr Cliffe or Sir are fine.
And manners have nothing to do with it. My name is Tristan. I prefer to be called by my real name than some silly username that websites/internet encourage. If I wanted to be called tristancliffe then I'd sign my name like that and use it in real life. If you want to use manners than Mr Cliffe or Sir are fine.
nah im just tired of discussing hardcore modes with you ... it leads nowhere
Tristan, it's not just you, it seems to be the general sentement around here. Deggis, it might as well be racial because we have as much control over being American as a black person has over being black. Just think how much BS a black American would have to deal with if we could actually see each other in LFS.
Back on topic:
It's funny that people who don't really race are obsessively trying to get what real racers would gladly do without.
and nobody seems to have offered a counter point to my suggestions
Back on topic:
It's funny that people who don't really race are obsessively trying to get what real racers would gladly do without.
and nobody seems to have offered a counter point to my suggestions
Right.. in other words you don't have an answer for the question. 1-0, too easy.
If this is your suggestion:
"i propose another solution. Allow the driver to take over control on the grid. If the brake or handbrake axis is pulled the autobrake cuts out and control is now in the hands of the anal retentive driver.",
it's been already suggested many times and imho it is the best way of doing it, with slight tweaking. Just give the option for the weak minded to use a arcade autostart feature which makes the car stay in one place until the player wants to move. As it is a driving aid, it should come with penalty. Just like autoclutch/brakehelp/throttleblip/throttleMax should have. What's the point in engine damage, false starts and correct shifting methods if there is an easier and faster way of making your computer to do it for you which requires less talent. And by not using them you would be slower, less competitive and the racing might become less fun.
Imho there aren't any excuses why driving aids shouldn't come with penalty.
EDIT: the new weight and restriction systems would be perfect for this!
Cue-Ball
More the problem is the teleporting to the grid, if there was a pop up, to let peple know the race was starting, and to press to get to grid, or if there are formation laps, then i can see not needing the Auto Hand Brake.
More the problem is the teleporting to the grid, if there was a pop up, to let peple know the race was starting, and to press to get to grid, or if there are formation laps, then i can see not needing the Auto Hand Brake.
and thats exactly why i dont discuss with you anymore
Actually yeah. Making shifts slower and other things would result in a lot of code and testing, but just adding weight or making the intake smaller would make it fairer. Maybe an idea for the stcc for people with manual clutch?
It is of course a point of semantics... It's not directly user controlled, since you cannot turn it off yourself without influencing the car in some way that's unrelated to a real handbrake control. Just because one can perform some normally unrelated action(s) to indirectly cause a result; that's not to say that the individual is in direct control of that result. I know it's a stupid point, and the only reason I'm talking about it is because... actually I don't really know why...
It's simply a point of logic, one cannot state accurately that the user "controls" the handbrake release right now.But the issue is that "pushing buttons" in the cockpit has nothing to do with the scope of the simulation LFS provides, whereas starting obviously has lots to do with it. Right now, the cars are already started - so starting the car is not the issue. The train of thought regarding drivers getting rid of procedures IRL is really quite silly. I'm sure they'd rather not have to pit, because pitting is a waste of time - I guess it shouldn't be in LFS right?
I won't even bother asking how you know what everyone does IRL, or point out the silly logic of that statement. (I'm sure real races think it's a PITA to have tires that wear out as well). I'll probably get accused of being anti-American for no reason whatsoever for saying that. :rolleyes:
Seriously what the deal with bringing that crap into a perfectly good thread? I think your sense of humour needs tuning TBH. Unless of course you're an "American Demoracer Drifter", then we all hate you!
@ deggis - if you played lfs online once in a while you know that the starts are already good, but having to do more then a few things at the start will make lfs more harder for the beginners who are just getting the hang of the game.
And it's also easy enough for someone who wants the handbrake engaged to engage it themselves. It's also quite easy for the driver to press the brake pedal as well. Not only are both these options just as easy, but they are logical and realistic as well.
That's a poor way of addressing the problem because it requires more work from some drivers than from others, and because people using the automated system have an infallible, perfect, computer controlled start which people who want to do it manually, like myself, do not have. In other words, you get a benefit by letting the computer do all the work, and there's no penalty. This is just like the auto-clutch, auto-blip, auto-cut aids which have been discussed so much in the past. If someone is going to use the driving aids, they need to be, at the very least, the same speed and precision as someone doing things manually. Right now, all of the driving aids are faster and less accident prone than doing things manually.
Again, this suggestion gives the advantage to the person using the "cheat" rather than the person doing all of the work themselves. This is a backwards way of doing things. If anything, the person using the computer controlled driving aids should be handicapped, not made faster.
Gee, I'm sorry. I thought this was a forum about LFS where customers were supposed to post their thoughts, ideas, and criticisms. I must have been mistaken.
I've been nothing but polite in this thread, and in the patch threads. Instead of bitching and moaning, I've detailed what the problem is and offered multiple solutions which I think would address the problem and make the game better. If you don't like my suggestions, fine. But stop with the personal attacks and quit taking the thread off-topic.
Could you please detail the "few things" that players have to do at the start now, and then expand on the "more than" few things they would have to do if the auto-handbrake were removed?
From what I can see, the only difference would be pressing on the brake pedal, or perhaps clicking a "go to grid" button. That hardly seems like it requires a lot of effort from the driver.
If the handbrake stays as it is, but is 'turn-offable' by pressing your handbrake button/axis, would that keep people happy for the time being? Is it the auto-handbrake (which to be fair WILL reduce startline carnage) or the fact it's not turn-offable except by moving the car?
When I'm driving, I don't want to ever HAVE to take my hands off the wheel and click a menu button with my mouse. I don't talk online except when I have to, but I really don't want to have to click 'Ready' EVERY TIME I go to the grid. I mean, I'm in a racing server, so of course I want to go to the grid.
When I'm driving, I don't want to ever HAVE to take my hands off the wheel and click a menu button with my mouse. I don't talk online except when I have to, but I really don't want to have to click 'Ready' EVERY TIME I go to the grid. I mean, I'm in a racing server, so of course I want to go to the grid.
as far as im concerned i would call it being in control (if youve ever driven a car with a hillholder youll know how rubbish automatic handbrakes are irl and will agree with me that you are very much in controll in lfs)
also letting go off the handbrake while youre engaging the clutch at the start is a synchronised motionand a such takes no training to get it right and no skill either ... so i still fail to see how it would change the starts at all in any way other than causing clutter on your wheels buttons
sure but how does pushing more buttons on the starting grid change anything about the starting procedure other than that you will have to release 4 buttons the moment the lights turn green instead of 2 ?
Sherlocked online stats?
that's true, haven't been online since October when my MOMO turned into a pile of fubar.I'm still gonna say that's BS, if that's too hard for some new player, how do you think that player can do clean races? LFS isn't made for Toca Race Driver fans (I guess). I don't go to play IL-2 Sturmovik and then wonder why do I need to do 100 things before I can shoot down fifty Messerschmitts.
Auto handbrake discussion
(231 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG