Technically I could mix up the discussion a bit by saying that the ten commandments are deprecated and made obsolete by Jesus dying on the cross, but that would start a big mess with "and then you're allowed to kill" thingy.
Explain to me then how a true believer George Bush says he is on a mission from god to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process he (by proxy) kills depending on sources 30 000 - 950 000 men, women and children? "Thou shalt not kill" is a metaphor too?
Or how I see all the time in the news from US that this or that religious group is protesting/terrorizing that abortion clinic / womens clinic. And no news about religious groups protesting at the pentagon or white house.
Not quite correct. For starters, the 10 commandments only applied to the Jews. Aside from that, there was context to the 10 commandments. The Jews were not allowed to pre-meditate a killing on any other Jew, as the Jews were God's chosen people. However, since the death of Jesus, it's no longer applicable, and the whole 'love your neighbour' thing comes in...
You're quite right about the first part. The ten commandments were only relevant to the Jews to begin with, and were made obsolete by the Jesus' death - as it was the beginning of the new covenant... However, then it falls to obey the previously-mentioned two commandments found in Matthew
If Bush is contrary to the Bible - then he's not a true believer. So if you want to find out if he's a true believer, check what he does against what the Bible says... and you're sorted. I think you'll find that the whole pre-meditated murder thing takes out war as a viable option. And where was the love in war? 'Love your neighbour' is entirely inclusive.
I'm trying to figure out if Krane's current signiature is ironic? Evolution is NOT a fact. Facts involve actual FACTS, not EVIDENCE. You cannot prove something with evidence.
And then she voted..
As far as I can understand wheel4hummer is Jewish, so he's correct as long as he applies to himself that interpretation of the 10 commandments. I agree that the New Testament gives, as you say, a different interpretation of the word of God, and in this context the same words have a different meaning that applies to Christians. Something not so subtle may be added in translation too: In Italian, for instance, it's "non uccidere", "don't kill".
That's actually slightly irrelevant. Christ's death was for all, which means that the New Testament applies to the Jews, too, and that the Old Testament is no longer relevant for anyone
I can tell you for sure that the New Testament doesn't apply to me as a layman, and I can tell you for sure there's no way, in Italy, to make me forcibly swallow the Old or the New Testament. Despite living in a Catholic country with a strong religious interference we're still free to choose to follow religious laws or not, and if Man wants we will always be.
There are more then 6 billion different religions on this planet.
It is one thing to believe there is a God and something completely different to believe he is actually concerned about us and wants us to live our lives according to his master plan.
IMHO the (illegal) war the USA starts against iraq is not really a question of believe. More a question about who gets te oil/money.
As long as christs stick there noses into something they don´t understand/tolerate we will have this kind of wars. For me it´s ok if a country don´t like us "non-believers" in there countrys. It´s there business and I don´t have the right to judge.
Actually, the ten commandments don't mention murder, killing, adultery, or any of the other stuff that most people think (unless you work on the sabbath. In that case, you are to be put to death. Gee, thanks, God). The actual "Ten Commandments" are listed only once in the bible, starting with Exodus 34.11: "Observe thou that which I command thee this day." My personal favorite is the tenth commandment: "Don't boil a kid in its mother's milk."
The ten commandments that preachers refer to, and that everyone thinks they know, are never referred to as the ten commandments by Moses or by "God". God simply says that he will re-write on the stone tablets what he had written before Moses smashed the first tablets. But, the two writings do not match, and they do not match the ten commandments given in Exodus 34.11.
The bottom line is that the bible is a hodge-podge of conflicting stories, and that anyone who is looking for morality in that book is condemned to failure.
you jsut managed to completely contradict all catholic and lutherian theology ... luther himself wrote interpretations of the 10 commandments to make clear what youre supposed to do to act according to them
I didn't say that at all, and once again a misunderstanding is down to context. The sacrifice was for all, but the salvation and, thus, any commandments, are for believers.
Well, show me any conflict in the Bible that can't be resolved by context and perhaps I'll have to rethink my beliefs
As for the ten commandments... they're not called that by God or Moses, no. But guess what... they're commandments, and there's ten of them. Can you make the mental link? If you want to be pedantic, there are hundreds of commandments in the Old Testament and the New Testament... so maybe it's time to stop being picky for the sake of it?
Wait... but I didn't contradict the Bible... Surely that's what should matter to Christians?