Chase view is a lot more fun for me. That's all. Everyones different I'm just glad its only a server option and not enforced. When I saw the new Chase Camera Editor in patch W, I knew that the Dev's didn't hate us Chase View players. I was happy that day.
Is the problem of the non-cockpit-racers (the bad one´s) so complicated?
I try to explain it. Just now (10 July 2007 05.42), i see just 4 servers for me (S-S). So 4 games i can join now. So take the voting of 70% for 'i love to force all others to my view' and shift this to the servers and wups - just one server is left for me. Nice or?
I know, lfs isn´t a company with traditionel behaviour, but they´v allready lost some customers by 'cutting' out keyboard-users (some friends of me had to exit lfs). Now, the next step is to kick all non 'in-car-view-racers' - all of them are arcade lovers? hmm - some brain left to think about it?
The market for racing simulations is realy tiny. Is it a good idea to devide it in lfs?
More realism on cockpit view? Hmm - let´s take a real small car - perhaps the lupo - have u ever seen a lupo which has a width of 24" - assuming you have a 22" display?
Have you ever seen the nice 'scotty-beam-me-up-to-pit' in real racing? Please show me the small track-layout on screen, in a real racing car. Ups -can it be that i forgott all the other pc-specific things in lfs, like F12, F9 etc.?
LFS is the best racing GAME-simulation on the market, but still it´s a game. And sure, LFS belongs to LFS, they can do what they like to do with it. But it should be a thought worth, if just league racers are enough for the futur success of lfs.
For me it´s a simple thing - if can´t play this game like i love to, i won´t.
It´s a shame, that we 'non-elite-racers' where attacked, because we just don´t like the view of the majority. Tipps like go out and play nfs instead of lfs are perkiness.
Maybe Scavier are at the point where they want there Sim to viewed as a "serious" sim and are slowly removing the aspects that might be labeled "Arcade"?
Who knows, personally theres more then enough room for all types of play model.
And for the ppl who think hardcore is the road to ruin i think they better check out GPL , still kicking after all these years..
For each patch we have crying people who don't like the patch and pray the gods to get back to old realeases. Damn, just enjoy the new realeased work of the scawen's team and shut the f**k up !!
I have the forced view on one of my servers; but before everybody jumps on my neck, let me explain...
The server it is running on is supposed to be dedicated to FULL SIM mode using a G25, with autoclutch switched off...720 degree steering (or whatever the car is SUPPOSED to have, shifter, all 'aids' turned off...etc, etc.. I personally feel that if I expect people to be as close to realistic as possible, then a realistic view should be imposed. HOWEVER...I also agree with the idea that ANY 'custom' view should be allowable, as long as the whole body is drawn and that the view does not go outside of the confines of a normal cockpit, as mentioned before, the 'forced cockpit view' is far from what you can see from a real car seat!
Personally, while racing, I prefer a view just level with the edge of the screen...the wiper blades are just visible at the bottom..a sort of 'further back' hood cam if you like...
What I think is needed is not the ability to FORCE certain views, but the ability to DISALLOW certain views!.
I don't think anyone is saying cockpit is realistic, but there is no getting away from the fact that cockpit IS the most REALISTIC view available in LFS.
You don't see the WHOLE dash in LFS (well, I don't), just like you don't see the whole dash in a real car, when you are driving and concentrating on the road/track ahead, pretty much all of the dash is in peripheral vision.
I'm kinda tired of being called elitist in this thread I'm using cockpit view in LFS, but do in no way feel elitist or want to force people to use it. I do think it is the most realistic view to use and for me it gives the best feedback on my driving. In e.g. ColinMcRae and Toca I always used bonnet view and I was very surprised when I first played LFS it was not there.
With a RWD car in S1 I was able to better control the car when driving chase view at first. I could see better when the rear was actually breaking away from me. After a little while I was able to interpret it similarly in cockpit view, but then again I still suck at RWD and hardly ever drive one of them
I honestly think every view can be gotten used to if given a little time
Do I think someone hosting a server should have a lot of options available to host a server in a way he feels that the game should be played. Hell yes. I've hosted a gameserver myself (not LFS) and nobody was going to tell me how I could host my server. I wanted to have a place where I could play the game like I wanted and looking from visitors quite a few people agreed with my view.
It's similar for LFS, if I could host a server I would want to have a lot of options for me to play with so I could host a server that completely agreed with my personal idea of LFS. Everybody has different ideas on how this game is MEANT to be played/interpreted, but it does not really matter. There will always be people with similar sentiments and they will find a place that meets their needs. There are so many servers empty it is almost laughable how people are complaining they imagine cannot find a server if Force Cockpit view becomes standard (which will only be if it is actually in the dedicated server config from the start). "Build it and they will come" should work even here. Advertise a server that does NOT force cockpit view but still is very stable/quick and uses a nice configuration. Popularity of a server is a fickle thing and mostly a full server attracts other racers.
It's a server sided option and for me it would weigh heavily that framerates could be really drastically reduced in cockpit view. I want people to have fun playing LFS and low framerates really detract from having fun imo.
As was mentioned by someone else, what is really going to be important is the damage aspect of the car. I've rolled over and the roof was actually blocking my view in the cockpit view. I still kept driving and having fun in a way that would have been impossible to enjoy similarly in wheels/chase view. So this damage aspect is the only real reason that should influence a decision for forced cockpit view. Do you want everyone to have the same problems after flipping over? I can imagine people going for realism will do, but still mostly league only. For a public server NOT targeted at the real hardcore side of racing, this forced view will simply never be turned on.
I'll just bumb this post, since everybody seems to have missed/ignored it. Granted we don't yet have shattering windscreens and smoke/dust from the cars only mildly obstruct the view. But I'm fairly sure (hope anyway) by S3 we have them.
Yes, same here
Not only better FPS but the whole thing is smoother than before, which is good.
Seriously I don't understand why it bother you so much as long as YOU can use the options YOU want.
You will never join a cruising server and the cruisers will never try to win Masters of Endurance but both drivers can enjoy LFS as well, just in a different way.
Notice that no one complained when the false starts were introduced. There were some little discussions about clutch and handbrake, but no one said that the false starts are a bad idea. The problem with the view is that it's related to the feeling and feedback you get from the game AND it's directly related to the hardware you have. Obviously, the people who are using two or three 19"+ monitors are not playing the same game as the people who are using a 15" single monitor. Well, it's the same game but you know what I mean :P
You got the point
Yes, they are aiming at making a simulation. But this is not incompatible with different ways of using it and with a good business strategy. To me the serious of the sim is about physics first. And I guess that's why we ALL enjoy LFS, hardcore racers or not. Damages, tyres, aerodynamics are examples of the next things to be improved.
The fact that LFS has good feedback and is already used, even as a show, by some famous racing teams, by some famous racers and by manufacturers like Force Dynamics and Frex already proves the serious of the simulation even if it's still in an alpha stage.
From a business point of view there is no point ending up with about 300 maybe 400 hardcore racers who have paid for the game three years ago and who are waiting for a release without giving money anymore. Any further update or version will even be more expensive for each one.
[mode=GranPa]
Being quite older than the lot of you, I have run several business in my life and I'm still running one. And believe me or not, bankruptcy can come quicker than you think and all of a sudden. A permanent cash flow is required. If you loose a large part of your customers and/or restrict the customers you have to a specific category, then problems will occur sooner or later in any business.
[/mode=GranPa]
Because we understand that little things need adding/fixing at this stage, rather than just ploughing on with big stuff badly.
Also, the AI is unlikely to make much difference to processor load - the majority of the load comes from LFS having to do so many local physics calculations (i.e. for every car). This won't change much with the AI (although a physics change like the addition of brake heat/wear might add to the load).
I'm just glad its only a server option and not enforced. When I saw the new Chase Camera Editor in patch W, I knew that the Dev's didn't hate us Chase View players. I was happy that day.
