Quote from Taavi(EST) :

They meant they have a G25 or a DFP, so that they have the wheel turned 360 degrees to the right or left when they start, without noticing it themselves.

O rite, i get you, coz my wheel and mouse sometimes point the wrong way (and i race with wheel and driver undrawn) and i dont know until i take off!

Quote from BlueFlame :

Look to apex is the best invention ever, its what you would do in real life, you wouldn't just stare 0 degrees out of the windscreen, you look into the apex'. It's a nice feature for drifting too

But in real life you're brain/inner ear compensates for your head movement, and seamlessly updates your brain with where your car is pointing, travelling, yawing etc.

In a sim, the view moves with wheel movement. Already that is unreal. But it doesn't tell your brain where the car is going anymore. So you have to think about it more.

I always miss apexes with it on. I nearly always clip them with it off. It's completely unintuitive and unnatural.

Explain how you do it yourself if you don't spend the money TrackIR.

Since I've found LFS, I have trouble with any sim that doesn't have the look-to-apex feature. I would prefer to be able to look myself rather than only looking when I'm turning the steering wheel, but I don't have the cash for TrackIR.

I think false starters should be kicked,and for 2nd fs banned

Quote from Crashgate3 :

A couple of times, I've found that my wheel is one turn to left or right instead of centred when I'd started the race, and end up swiping the car next to me as the light goes green..

Done that too. Luckily it's mostly pointed to the outside Now I put the driver model on, so when he only has 1 hand on the wheel I know I'm wrong

Quote from mrodgers :

Explain how you do it yourself if you don't spend the money TrackIR.

Since I've found LFS, I have trouble with any sim that doesn't have the look-to-apex feature. I would prefer to be able to look myself rather than only looking when I'm turning the steering wheel, but I don't have the cash for TrackIR.

Well just look at it? It's really that simple. Don't always stare at the middle of your screen, you can move your eyeballs, or if you don't want to do that, you can move your head.

Ok seriously, even with 60 degrees of FOV, the apex of every corner comes into view very quickly after turn in (if it's not already there at turn in).

Edit: but this "debate" is pretty useless, the human brain is such an amazing thing, that it can adapt to a very wide range of situations. So it's down to getting used to it really. Either way. So I think it's not true that you can't judge the yaw angle of the car with "look into apex" or TrackIR, your brain just need to get used to it, and interpret the visual cues accordingly.

Quote from Neblaivas :

I think false starters should be kicked,and for 2nd fs banned

A bit too harsh for my taste. Imagine slipping off the clutch (happend to me, even once in real life, not while racing, just with my everyday drive :shy. The current penalty (drive-through -> spectate) is enough.

Quote from herki :

A bit too harsh for my taste. Imagine slipping off the clutch (happend to me, even once in real life, not while racing, just with my everyday drive :shy. The current penalty (drive-through -> spectate) is enough.

Agreed, we all make mistakes. I just try to stay out of everyone's way if my finger slips off the clutch.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

A couple of times, I've found that my wheel is one turn to left or right instead of centred when I'd started the race, and end up swiping the car next to me as the light goes green..

I've got you beat...I did that last night: The wheel was 180 degrees off and I slammed it into reverse. ('cause the paddles were reversed as well.) I took out 3 people. Oh, the shame.

Maybe 3rd ban in 1-3h refresh time,but that would work.Sorry for OT but does apex mean middle of inside corner where you stop braking and start accelerate?

Yep, that's it.

Quote from rubberbrush :

I've got you beat...I did that last night: The wheel was 180 degrees off and I slammed it into reverse. ('cause the paddles were reversed as well.) I took out 3 people. Oh, the shame.

Haha.. that's brilliant

Quote from Iron :

Well just look at it? It's really that simple. Don't always stare at the middle of your screen, you can move your eyeballs, or if you don't want to do that, you can move your head.

Ok seriously, even with 60 degrees of FOV, the apex of every corner comes into view very quickly after turn in (if it's not already there at turn in).

Edit: but this "debate" is pretty useless, the human brain is such an amazing thing, that it can adapt to a very wide range of situations. So it's down to getting used to it really. Either way. So I think it's not true that you can't judge the yaw angle of the car with "look into apex" or TrackIR, your brain just need to get used to it, and interpret the visual cues accordingly.

Yes, very much true. Problem is, when I'm turning into the corner, I'm no longer thinking about the apex. My line for the apex is already set. I'm thinking about the exit, which is off the screen with a static frontwards view. Look as far ahead as you can. With the static view, that it not very far ahead at the corner entry point.

And I agree about the brain getting use to whatever and interpreting the cues accordingly. I can interpret oversteer just fine from visual cues with the look-to-apex set.

Well, as far as the thread title is concerned, the ultimate way to be a retard is not a bad start...let me explain. Yesterday, I was racing (*GASP*), in a 4 lap race of blackwood. Well, I did my 4 laps, and it was really close between me and the car behind (3 seconds). So I was thrilled when I won, and started doing donuts at the rallyx turn. Then, I saw everyone else fly past me, and I realised it was a 5 lap race!!! boy was my face red/green/purple!! just goes to show the disadvantages of shift+f!!!