Quote from BWX232 :

Which list? The people who do NOT want real cars and tracks? if so I suppose the LFS fan base is so backward there is no hope for real content. Oh well.

It's not that people do not WANT real tracks, but a good virtual track is a lot nicer to drive than most of the existing real tracks.

I've often heard complaining that the starting position and pitstops actually decide the race nowadays. In F1 you hear that a lot, because a lot of the tracks are not really suitable anymore to overtake (especially in these high downforce cars).

I do not NEED a real race track to have fun. Any layout will do fine if it provides me an opportunity to race side by side next to an opponent. Thàt exact moment defines racing fun for me and not what track/car I'm driving.

Quote from AeoIus :

I've often heard complaining that the starting position and pitstops actually decide the race nowadays. In F1 you hear that a lot, because a lot of the tracks are not really suitable anymore to overtake (especially in these high downforce cars).

When did all the real tracks in the world transform into F1 venues?

F1 tracks designed by Tilke are the worst examples of real life tracks. And they still have nothing to do with the overtaking issue, that's because of the akward aerodynamic design of the cars.

lfs rocks, rfactor is a type of shit(the physics are so stupid)

you have a way with words

LOL! Not just general shit, but a specific type of shit. I knew there was something special about it

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

LOL! Not just general shit, but a specific type of shit. I knew there was something special about it

Perhaps the type that no matter how hard you try and try and try, it just doesn't come out right

Quote from deggis :

When did all the real tracks in the world transform into F1 venues?

F1 tracks designed by Tilke are the worst examples of real life tracks. And they still have nothing to do with the overtaking issue, that's because of the akward aerodynamic design of the cars.

While it may be true that Tilke tracks are designed to be more spectator friendly than racer friendly it still doesn't meant that the Tilke tracks are boring and unimaginative to drive. Imho, there are zillions of tracks that could be vastly improved in the hands of Tilke. Have you driven any Tilke tracks in sims and then some non-Tilke tracks, for example? The Tilke tracks have some great corners and interesting corner combinations.

It isn't Tilke's fault if the F1 provides boring races. It is just the fact that the electronics, driving aids and nervous aerodynamics of the cars make them incompatible with good wheel to wheel racing.

I personally think that Tilke tracks are great, unlike some old tracks like Hockenheim or "new" tracks like Hungaroring.

Quote from Shotglass :

just ignore the guy he comes back here every few months to ramble about how bad his dirty little secret looks and leaves again quickly to make sure his gtr and rfactor friends dont find out about his affair

Actually, I haven't seen him in the rFactor forum at RSC in quite some time, and I am there daily. So I have no idea what he has been up too. Although I'm quite surprised he's still bumping this thread. Maybe it's just to keep you guy's on your toes.

I owe LFS and rfactor and GTR2, and I am play a lot of rfactor everyday.

I like the tyres and differential modelling in LFS, it is better than rfactor I think, but I also like the ability to set Engine RPM and weight distribution in rfactor

I have downloaded many mods, some mods are crap, but some mod has very good physics, even better than LFS default cars.

If you guys own GTR2 as well, the GTR2 cars have excellent handling..

I like LFS as well, but the cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game

The same goes for rfactor, the demo cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game, especially in suspension areas

but with mods in rfactor, that changes the whole story.. If LFS allow modders to mod real life cars, I am sure people will find LFS even more stunning as well.. It is just the parameters feeding into engine are not correct

Quote from benoityip :

I owe LFS and rfactor and GTR2, and I am play a lot of rfactor everyday.

I like the tyres and differential modelling in LFS, it is better than rfactor I think, but I also like the ability to set Engine RPM and weight distribution in rfactor

I have downloaded many mods, some mods are crap, but some mod has very good physics, even better than LFS default cars.

If you guys own GTR2 as well, the GTR2 cars have excellent handling..

I like LFS as well, but the cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game

The same goes for rfactor, the demo cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game, especially in suspension areas

but with mods in rfactor, that changes the whole story.. If LFS allow modders to mod real life cars, I am sure people will find LFS even more stunning as well.. It is just the parameters feeding into engine are not correct

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to get rFactor to work. It doesn't matter if it is a fictitious car or a "real" modded in car, they all feel vaguely the same. Rotate about the middle, the same unpredictable tire behaviour, the same unpredictable braking, and Real-feel, although an improvement over stock, is still lacking compared to LFS. If you make a car setup well enough that it will actually turn-in on any corner in rFactor, it is so unrealisticly tail happy other places that it is just funny. It is just your opinion, as this is just my opinion, but calling LFS cars "arcade drift game" is just showing that you either haven't spent the time to learn how to properly setup a car, or you just have no clue.

LFS allows for an extremely wide range of settings changes (probably too wide), and that throws a lot of people off. You just don't crank things up all the way like you do in rFactor to get the results you want. It takes small tweaks and a real understanding of car setups to make a car work well.

I have spent many hours on a real track in a real car driving at the limit... and sometimes slightly past the limit. The comparison is extremely difficult to make between real world and the sim world. But, like Tristian, I can say with a lot of confidence that LFS comes much, much closer than rFactor.

Damn, I swore I would not ever post in this thread again... and there I go.

@Hallen - Ignore benoityip's post, I don't know whether he's deliberately flaming or just has a really weird idea of how a car should behave. The problem with the ISI sims is there is just such an enormous choice of mods and 99.9% of them are shockingly bad. From my experience the only two I'd rate as being acceptable and up to LFS standard are Neil's Corvette and the W196. The Corvette is big and lumbering normally wallowing into understeer with oversteer only really when demanded by the right foot, which I suppose is pretty realistic. The W196 is really well sorted, given the fact that the entire time is spent slipping either going in a straight line or round corners it is a very good job it's not like 99.9% of mods (including anything SimBin have made). As a car the W196 is very straight forward, it won't kill you like some of the later GP cars ('65 GP cars come to mind) it just doesn't have any grip and depending on how you drive it you can choose to sit in huge understeer or glorious controllable four wheel drifts.

To get a good experience with either of these mods you need to have RealFeel installed, when you use it with a properly setup car for the first time you'll suddenly feel the difference. Then try and find a track without the silly bumping effects, most have them some are worse than others, VirtuaLMs LeMans is a particularly bad offender.

Quote from Hallen :

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to get rFactor to work. It doesn't matter if it is a fictitious car or a "real" modded in car, they all feel vaguely the same. Rotate about the middle, the same unpredictable tire behaviour, the same unpredictable braking, and Real-feel, although an improvement over stock, is still lacking compared to LFS. If you make a car setup well enough that it will actually turn-in on any corner in rFactor, it is so unrealisticly tail happy other places that it is just funny. It is just your opinion, as this is just my opinion, but calling LFS cars "arcade drift game" is just showing that you either haven't spent the time to learn how to properly setup a car, or you just have no clue.

LFS allows for an extremely wide range of settings changes (probably too wide), and that throws a lot of people off. You just don't crank things up all the way like you do in rFactor to get the results you want. It takes small tweaks and a real understanding of car setups to make a car work well.

I have spent many hours on a real track in a real car driving at the limit... and sometimes slightly past the limit. The comparison is extremely difficult to make between real world and the sim world. But, like Tristian, I can say with a lot of confidence that LFS comes much, much closer than rFactor.

Damn, I swore I would not ever post in this thread again... and there I go.

I have to emphasize I like both LFS and rfactor..

I know how to set up cars, I do that since GP2 many years ago, and I love LFS differential and traction settings, so detailed..

Aplogology to call LFS arcade drifting game...

How about GTR2? have u guys try that? I love it as well

Quote from benoityip :

How about GTR2? have u guys try that? I love it as well

I'm not sure if I even want to call it a decent "simulator", because it's not even trying to be (a serious) one. It's been made for the mass market and because of that has really really stupid compromises and flaws from years behind.

I've played GTR2!!! It was rubbish (but slightly better than GTR1 - by GTR31 they'll be spot on).

Quote from Hallen :

[...]

I have a theory: Couldn't it be that by turning the front wheels, you get quite some slip angles? With the grip drop-off beyond the limit, exaggerated by the solid, non-flexing tyres couldn't that be the cause for the horrendous understeer until the rear snaps loose, or am I completely lost?

I just know I tried to simulate one or two cars from rFactor-mods as close as possible (with the help of ValueMod), set them up exactly the same and there was no understeer whatsoever, not even at speed...

Quote from ajp71 :

Then try and find a track without the silly bumping effects, most have them some are worse than others, VirtuaLMs LeMans is a particularly bad offender.

Don't try Sebring then, that thing is made of those sine bumps! :eek:

Quote from Hallen :

Damn, I swore I would not ever post in this thread again... and there I go.

You should post more often Eric; it's always good. Some in car vids of that BMW would be sublime, hint hint

I have GTR2, and "driving" it is ridiculous; and and excercise in futility. Yeah, you correct oversteer by steering into the turn in real life too!111

It has good points, but driving isn't one of them; here's my complete ancient review from last year.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14206

even the devs of gtr2 have openly admited that they knowingly put huge physics flaws into it

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

You should post more often Eric; it's always good. Some in car vids of that BMW would be sublime, hint hint

It ain't much, but it is fun for me
High Res videos are linked and embeded on the blog.
http://www.griplimit.net

Nice videos and site, Hallen.

A friend of mine ran a couple of Donkervoort series for a few years (open top Lotus 7 types) and filmed several of his races and so on. It took awhile for him to figure out how to get rid of the wind noise and let the engine sound come through more. Eventually, he stuck the microphone under the dashboard on the passenger side, up towards the firewall. This is the result:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dp7g1NAMNxE

I went for a couple of rides in this car, and the video sounds very much like it does in reality, although I couldn't hear the turbo like you can in the video. (The car pictured in the video is wrong, by the way, although the driver's name is correct. Wolfgang wasn't actually driving his own car here, but my friend's. We don't know how they got this video and were surprised to find it online )

Anyway, regarding mic placement, maybe you might want to try the same thing? It sounds rather windy, although the video quality is very nice!

the good thing in the rFactor scene is you can play other games and nobody is writing: "wtf why are you playing this crap". i only get this feeling here... and this is the most thing that pisses me off, especially on this forum. the closed-mindedness. you can argue about rFactor that they don't have a community like here in lfs where everyone meets up in this forum. but to be honest, there are about 25 people in this forum who predefine which opinion should count and argue with knifes and scissors down everyone who is against that opinion (e.g. helmets, driving aids, other games, ovals, development, changes, improvements, ...)

sure both games have advantages and disadvantages but in the end its everyones decision if he likes variety (with all its advantages and disadvantages) or developer-guided development (with all its advantages and disadvantages)


for me i am at the moment more interested in rFactor because it offers more the stuff i like, but as soon as lfs brings out new stuff i am surely back to give it a try. i am also here for quick pickup-races when in rFactor no mod i am interested in is running. but thats the good thing with personal freedom: you can choose what you like, where you like and when you like....

Quote from Fischfix :

[....]

Agree with you 100% on that point I absolutely love LFS, always have done since the first time i raced online, but one thing that hasn't really "met my needs" is the reality of it. Granted it has great physics and all but Rfactor has alot of mods around which I like namely real cars and real tracks. My favourite car on RF has to be some1's Corvette C6, I think that car and probably a few others, showed RF's true potential with the physics.

Quote from Fischfix :

the good thing in the rFactor scene is you can play other games and nobody is writing: "wtf why are you playing this crap". i only get this feeling here... and this is the most thing that pisses me off, especially on this forum. the closed-mindedness. you can argue about rFactor that they don't have a community like here in lfs where everyone meets up in this forum. but to be honest, there are about 25 people in this forum who predefine which opinion should count and argue with knifes and scissors down everyone who is against that opinion (e.g. helmets, driving aids, other games, ovals, development, changes, improvements, ...)

sure both games have advantages and disadvantages but in the end its everyones decision if he likes variety (with all its advantages and disadvantages) or developer-guided development (with all its advantages and disadvantages)


for me i am at the moment more interested in rFactor because it offers more the stuff i like, but as soon as lfs brings out new stuff i am surely back to give it a try. i am also here for quick pickup-races when in rFactor no mod i am interested in is running. but thats the good thing with personal freedom: you can choose what you like, where you like and when you like....

Need to agree.

Quote from Xaid0n :

My favourite car on RF has to be some1's Corvette C6, I think that car and probably a few others, showed RF's true potential with the physics.

Ah, that would be Niels. I don't have rFactor, so haven't tried his mod (although he has tried to pursuade me to buy it ), although with his help LFS will be getting the....

<end of sentence omitted to fuel rumour mill>

Quote from Bob Smith :

Ah, that would be Niels. I don't have rFactor, so haven't tried his mod (although he has tried to pursuade me to buy it ), although with his help LFS will be getting the....

<end of sentence omitted to fuel rumour mill>

Your ability to tantalise us without ever actually breaching your NDA is frankly, amazing. I hope that there is some meaty info on the horizon though, or you can expect a few community members to show up with pitchforks in hand...

Just can't help himself anymore can he. Maybe his new job ain't for a games company after all, and he's actually being paid to write the end sequence for Eastenders.........no wait........Byker Grove.