Can you name any racing sim with better graphics? I can't to be honest... 
Then again I haven't played many of them...
Then again I haven't played many of them...Sim? hmmm..........depends what you mean by sim, I think the graphics in RACE07 are more believeable, and also the graphics in PGR4 are breath-taking, but of course, its no sim, by a long shot (heck of a lot of fun though 
)
)I didn't hear that you liked Bloom anywhere, hence my question.
I think what we're saying is that LFS blends realistic colours, with sensible detail, and maintains decent playability in terms of fps on old PC's better than anything. Rfactor and GTR look like cartoons and need pretty good PC's, nK doesn't work anyway. Race looks okay, but still quite cartoony.
Would LFS benefit from a graphics makeover? No doubt about it. But it's good enough, and looks real enough for it to be pretty low priority. Things like smoke could be better, and wheel blurring might be nice, but the general effect is good.
We're certainly not saying it's perfect, and to think we are shows a complete lack of understanding of English.
i was going to reply to that but tristan said it all really..
there a million and one things i would like LFS to be and yes even in the grafix department, but IMO LFS hitts the bullseye on the grafix/performance ratio...
im hoping the devs update the grafix WITHIN the ratio that we have now, when S3 hits i WANT people saying "the grafix aint state of the art" that would please me
, if we get start of the art grafix we all need state of the art systems, even then performace will take massive hits...
again there are a million things i would like to see in LFS and its FAR from perfect in everyway, no one could argue that one, but what we have on the current timeline and average computing power LFS hitts the spot PERFECT, all these things i would like in LFS mill come WITH time (well some of em, i think the gattaling gun on the front of my FV8 will be left out)
so putting it very simple
is LFS perfect...? NO!
does LFS hit a perfect ballance with todays average cpu power and todays gaming expectations....? IMO more than perfect, the devs have done somthing VERY rare with LFS
there a million and one things i would like LFS to be and yes even in the grafix department, but IMO LFS hitts the bullseye on the grafix/performance ratio...
im hoping the devs update the grafix WITHIN the ratio that we have now, when S3 hits i WANT people saying "the grafix aint state of the art" that would please me
, if we get start of the art grafix we all need state of the art systems, even then performace will take massive hits...again there are a million things i would like to see in LFS and its FAR from perfect in everyway, no one could argue that one, but what we have on the current timeline and average computing power LFS hitts the spot PERFECT, all these things i would like in LFS mill come WITH time (well some of em, i think the gattaling gun on the front of my FV8 will be left out
) so putting it very simple
is LFS perfect...? NO!
does LFS hit a perfect ballance with todays average cpu power and todays gaming expectations....? IMO more than perfect, the devs have done somthing VERY rare with LFS
No, but you can have my DX9 card... (6800GT) lol.
Hmm, a 6800GT, better than a kick in the teeth
We're not really talking about state of the art. State of the art is the new stuff coming in using Dx10. LFS is using, what... DX7? 8, maybe? Most definitely not 9.
I agree that it's a simulation and that physics are important, but simulation implies the following: "A program that imitates a physical process or object by causing a computer to respond mathematically to data and changing conditions as though it were the process or object itself."
What it seems a few people think is that LFS should be 99% physics and would be glad to have 1995 graphics along with it. The physical process implied in a simulation isn't only the physics, it's the whole thing, and this is why I can't agree that LFS is what all the fanbois pretend it is. Graphics are as important as the physics. So are the sounds, so are every little part that makes racing what it is. Some are more obvious than others, let's say physics, graphics and sound are the most important things that come with a racing simulation. I don't see how it's good for the game to say: "Well, the physics are good, the graphics aren't, but it's OK, because it's a simulation".
Imagine a second that those games that got awesome graphics but crappy physics were simulations. At the moment, nobody complains that the physics suck because they're arcade games, they're intended to be that way, but what if somebody came up with a fantastically good looking game with poor physics, claiming it to be a simulation (Hmmm... GT4)? Fanbois would say that everything is fine, but I think we agree that 100% of the LFS community - the simulation racer - knows that GT4 is FAR from reality concerning physics. They don't care, because people still buy their game, but I got news for you, people buy games for what they look like before what they feel like. The first impression is really important, and even if people read that LFS is realistic, the reason they don't buy it as much as other games is because it doesn't look as good. If LFS was one of the best looking games out there, with the physics it had, it's pretty damn sure that more people would buy it.
I agree that it's a simulation and that physics are important, but simulation implies the following: "A program that imitates a physical process or object by causing a computer to respond mathematically to data and changing conditions as though it were the process or object itself."
What it seems a few people think is that LFS should be 99% physics and would be glad to have 1995 graphics along with it. The physical process implied in a simulation isn't only the physics, it's the whole thing, and this is why I can't agree that LFS is what all the fanbois pretend it is. Graphics are as important as the physics. So are the sounds, so are every little part that makes racing what it is. Some are more obvious than others, let's say physics, graphics and sound are the most important things that come with a racing simulation. I don't see how it's good for the game to say: "Well, the physics are good, the graphics aren't, but it's OK, because it's a simulation".
Imagine a second that those games that got awesome graphics but crappy physics were simulations. At the moment, nobody complains that the physics suck because they're arcade games, they're intended to be that way, but what if somebody came up with a fantastically good looking game with poor physics, claiming it to be a simulation (Hmmm... GT4)? Fanbois would say that everything is fine, but I think we agree that 100% of the LFS community - the simulation racer - knows that GT4 is FAR from reality concerning physics. They don't care, because people still buy their game, but I got news for you, people buy games for what they look like before what they feel like. The first impression is really important, and even if people read that LFS is realistic, the reason they don't buy it as much as other games is because it doesn't look as good. If LFS was one of the best looking games out there, with the physics it had, it's pretty damn sure that more people would buy it.
:doh:
ok the grafix thing, i wouldnt go as far as saying LFS's grafix are not good, there not bad and there not cutting edge,
yes i agree grafix sell games i said that in a earlyer post, ive fallen for it myself many times, but as i say there all gathering dust.
would it be nice to have LFS run top notch grafix with the same performance... sure it would but thats not going to happen, what LFS does does in the phisics department isnt even finished yet no where near, so throw all that in with kick ass grafix you got a race sim that performs like a brick..
all im trying to say is LFS has the right RATIO! its grafix decent the phisics are damn good so far, its netcode is out of this world, and its general engine is stupidly stable, you can tell a lot about a game just by looking at the "technical issues" forum, lfs's is pretty clean to 99% of games out there....
i do agree with the package thing though, its not just the phisics that make a sim, but again i thing LFS does a good all round package, the one sole thing i think lets LFS at this second is the SOUND, boy boy would it be xmas if that was patched up and brought up to scratch, i would say its the only thing that disapoints ME in LFS!
ok the grafix thing, i wouldnt go as far as saying LFS's grafix are not good, there not bad and there not cutting edge,
yes i agree grafix sell games i said that in a earlyer post, ive fallen for it myself many times, but as i say there all gathering dust.
would it be nice to have LFS run top notch grafix with the same performance... sure it would but thats not going to happen, what LFS does does in the phisics department isnt even finished yet no where near, so throw all that in with kick ass grafix you got a race sim that performs like a brick..
all im trying to say is LFS has the right RATIO! its grafix decent the phisics are damn good so far, its netcode is out of this world, and its general engine is stupidly stable, you can tell a lot about a game just by looking at the "technical issues" forum, lfs's is pretty clean to 99% of games out there....
i do agree with the package thing though, its not just the phisics that make a sim, but again i thing LFS does a good all round package, the one sole thing i think lets LFS at this second is the SOUND, boy boy would it be xmas if that was patched up and brought up to scratch, i would say its the only thing that disapoints ME in LFS!
I can't believe I agree with 3 people that seem to be disagreeing but here we go.
Yes LFS graphics AND SOUND are adeqate at best.
They won't make your eyes and ears bleed too much but you won't be impressed the slightest bit.
And it's sadly true that LFS looks by far the best out of all available legit sims today....but that really isn't saying much.
The package is important. It's what makes it complete.
Amazing graphics alone don't cut it. Neither do physics and sound alone.
But what if we could all stop denying that we want all of it.
Now for the dreamers amongs us.
Just imagine for a second, a game with the (completed) physics of LFS, the look and graphics of GT5 and a kick ass sound engine.
Well, some might argue that that's S3. Most likely.
But at the pace of current development, by then other games will plug in into the back of a bloody skulls or come compiled for our home holosuites.
LFS is great in many departments; graphics and sound ain't two of them.
*please no ignorant "I'd rather have LFS them Bloom-land!" There are a lot of shades between black and white.
Yes LFS graphics AND SOUND are adeqate at best.
They won't make your eyes and ears bleed too much but you won't be impressed the slightest bit.
And it's sadly true that LFS looks by far the best out of all available legit sims today....but that really isn't saying much.
The package is important. It's what makes it complete.
Amazing graphics alone don't cut it. Neither do physics and sound alone.
But what if we could all stop denying that we want all of it.
Now for the dreamers amongs us.
Just imagine for a second, a game with the (completed) physics of LFS, the look and graphics of GT5 and a kick ass sound engine.
Well, some might argue that that's S3. Most likely.
But at the pace of current development, by then other games will plug in into the back of a bloody skulls or come compiled for our home holosuites.
LFS is great in many departments; graphics and sound ain't two of them.
*please no ignorant "I'd rather have LFS them Bloom-land!" There are a lot of shades between black and white.
right, but sadly even my high-end computer won't be able to keep up with ps3 or xbox360 graphics. Flight Simulator X was too much, so i hope S3 wont kill me.
I don't think FS X qualifies as a reference for efficient graphics programming combined with quality program code... Crysis is perhaps a better example and runs pretty nicely even in my current A64 3000+/X850 XT combo.
I hope S3, when it comes out (still far away), will kill every personal computer currently available on the highest settings. Of course the coding's got to be efficient so it won't kill PC's by lousy efficiency, but by the quality of contents.
If S3 can't enable/support features that we all know will come true in a few years time, I've no interest to pay for it. If it comes out after GT5 I'll expect it to give better graphics and ask for better hardware than GT5. Honestly, who wants to be stuck with the current graphics and sounds 5 years later?
i give up i really do
yes i want it all grafix sound and physics im not kidding myself there for 1 second!, but if there is a game genre where FPS counts its a race sim, so performance is a big issue and if we did have it all you can wipe HALF the LFS playerbase out cus there rigs wouldnt cope...
as for S3?/ its a good few years away yet s2 aint done yet for gawd sake, so a full release of S3??? minimum 1 and a half years i would say 2 maybe 3 to be fair, at which time the average home PC will be better or atleast as good as what a top end rig is now....
yes also in that time grafix and "special effects" will also have gone forward, but imo LFS will never be in that zone, and im personaly pleased with that.....
its like in the 80/90's with the brit/german/us car manufactures, while we was fudging about with all new technology, airbags/lecky windos and centrel locking the japs manufactures used all our old technology, there cars worked and ours were being called back and spending more time in the garages, yep no question that new stuff is common place today but it works today, then it was all new and came with its problems....
LFS goes with what works well, yes i would LOVE LFS to be cutting edge with no problems and everyone who is here today to run it like butter but thats just not possible....
another game i play WWIIOL, is very mutch like LFS, and its grafix ARE BAD, and its been stated in every review, BUT the devs have made something that no other war simulaion can, its content is huge, therefore its shelf life is near infinate, same goes for LFS..
ive said it once and ill say it again, LFS is NOT perfect, its not a dreamboat in the technology department, but it hits the best medium, a strike between the two..
these bigg developers are interested in one thing... shifting vast amounts of copies for high prices, what LFS has sold since its payment release would make EA cry if they only sold that many in 24 hours!!!!!!!, they knock out MILLIONS, and they dont care that i have loads of games that i dont play anymore, cus they already have my money and are on the NEXT project, and buisy trying to get the next £50 out of my pocket,
if LFS dies, i dont really think the devs would turn round and say while rubbing there hands together "made a tidy penny out of that one heh? ok next game victor" your in a completly different area with LFS and thats why i love it, cus i know that the devs go to sleep at night thinking how to make LFS more enjoyable for US, not go to sleep thinking what rolls royce there gona buy the next day....
i see so many people whine about drivers for this, patches for that, cus the devs carnt be arsed to patch a fix, thats becasue you have paid you money and now they dont care, the only time they will is if its a pretty new product and it could cause them profit loss in the future for THAT product, once there new line come out there laughing all the way to the bank AGAIN.. thats just buisness with these big guys, and thats why these games "LFS" are special, and thats why ill be here for some time to come...
back to grafix, ok you may have a better rig than me and get 20000 FPS and there are a few on here that could handle LFS maxed out with killer grafix/sound and the finished article, BUT LFS WOULD DIE!!!!!!!, your gona get bored cus the player base has just been smashed to bitts, the devs carnt carry on cus there arnt enough people buying cus not enough can run it, LFS dies and thats FACT...
if you want high end this, high end that, go for it and best of luck to you, but i will put my house on it !!!!!!LFS will still give you best bang for ya buck!!!!!!,
im gona get off my box now
yes i want it all grafix sound and physics im not kidding myself there for 1 second!, but if there is a game genre where FPS counts its a race sim, so performance is a big issue and if we did have it all you can wipe HALF the LFS playerbase out cus there rigs wouldnt cope...
as for S3?/ its a good few years away yet s2 aint done yet for gawd sake, so a full release of S3??? minimum 1 and a half years i would say 2 maybe 3 to be fair, at which time the average home PC will be better or atleast as good as what a top end rig is now....
yes also in that time grafix and "special effects" will also have gone forward, but imo LFS will never be in that zone, and im personaly pleased with that.....
its like in the 80/90's with the brit/german/us car manufactures, while we was fudging about with all new technology, airbags/lecky windos and centrel locking the japs manufactures used all our old technology, there cars worked and ours were being called back and spending more time in the garages, yep no question that new stuff is common place today but it works today, then it was all new and came with its problems....
LFS goes with what works well, yes i would LOVE LFS to be cutting edge with no problems and everyone who is here today to run it like butter but thats just not possible....
another game i play WWIIOL, is very mutch like LFS, and its grafix ARE BAD, and its been stated in every review, BUT the devs have made something that no other war simulaion can, its content is huge, therefore its shelf life is near infinate, same goes for LFS..
ive said it once and ill say it again, LFS is NOT perfect, its not a dreamboat in the technology department, but it hits the best medium, a strike between the two..
these bigg developers are interested in one thing... shifting vast amounts of copies for high prices, what LFS has sold since its payment release would make EA cry if they only sold that many in 24 hours!!!!!!!, they knock out MILLIONS, and they dont care that i have loads of games that i dont play anymore, cus they already have my money and are on the NEXT project, and buisy trying to get the next £50 out of my pocket,
if LFS dies, i dont really think the devs would turn round and say while rubbing there hands together "made a tidy penny out of that one heh? ok next game victor" your in a completly different area with LFS and thats why i love it, cus i know that the devs go to sleep at night thinking how to make LFS more enjoyable for US, not go to sleep thinking what rolls royce there gona buy the next day....
i see so many people whine about drivers for this, patches for that, cus the devs carnt be arsed to patch a fix, thats becasue you have paid you money and now they dont care, the only time they will is if its a pretty new product and it could cause them profit loss in the future for THAT product, once there new line come out there laughing all the way to the bank AGAIN.. thats just buisness with these big guys, and thats why these games "LFS" are special, and thats why ill be here for some time to come...
back to grafix, ok you may have a better rig than me and get 20000 FPS and there are a few on here that could handle LFS maxed out with killer grafix/sound and the finished article, BUT LFS WOULD DIE!!!!!!!, your gona get bored cus the player base has just been smashed to bitts, the devs carnt carry on cus there arnt enough people buying cus not enough can run it, LFS dies and thats FACT...
if you want high end this, high end that, go for it and best of luck to you, but i will put my house on it !!!!!!LFS will still give you best bang for ya buck!!!!!!,
im gona get off my box now
I love LFS because I hate all other racing games/simulators. Driving in them feels like crap.
Driving in LFS feels like driving on grass/ice, but I guess it's just because the cars are so fast and the sense of speed is low compared to other games because the default FOV is 90, which makes it feel slow.
Driving in LFS feels like driving on grass/ice, but I guess it's just because the cars are so fast and the sense of speed is low compared to other games because the default FOV is 90, which makes it feel slow.
I love LFS because as you said, it has exactly what are we searching for.
This happenned me yesterday:
I was playing online with BMW M3 Challenge against 14 racers. I made my personal record in the qualify and I finished the sesion in 5th possition, so I was so happy. The race started and I managed to earn the second postion. The race was being absolutely amazing, and I was covering my postion all the time because two BMW faster than me were trying to overtake me. And then... someone with not too much brain, appeared and crashed me in a corner, using me as a brake instead of using his brakes. My race have been finished. :weeping:
So, I ran LFS and I saw a very old graphics, very bad sound, too much simple FF effects... but when I started to play, I early noticed that instead of all of those secondary things, LFS has what is important: a large community of serious racers who loves racing, who enjoy and are happy driving a car with the best physics ever and with the highest sportmanship I have ever seen.
Thanks to LFS devs and all LFS community
This happenned me yesterday:
I was playing online with BMW M3 Challenge against 14 racers. I made my personal record in the qualify and I finished the sesion in 5th possition, so I was so happy. The race started and I managed to earn the second postion. The race was being absolutely amazing, and I was covering my postion all the time because two BMW faster than me were trying to overtake me. And then... someone with not too much brain, appeared and crashed me in a corner, using me as a brake instead of using his brakes. My race have been finished. :weeping:
So, I ran LFS and I saw a very old graphics, very bad sound, too much simple FF effects... but when I started to play, I early noticed that instead of all of those secondary things, LFS has what is important: a large community of serious racers who loves racing, who enjoy and are happy driving a car with the best physics ever and with the highest sportmanship I have ever seen.
Thanks to LFS devs and all LFS community
Yep, I agree that even I often overlook the very good points about LFS. Just the fact that they're three and don't release crap. I mean, look at other games; big teams, big stuff, they release a patch, it's most likely going to bug (hai Blizzard), and when it bugs, it's an exception caught. In LFS? I've been on LFS for 4 years now and I've never EVER had it crash for no apparent reason. All the bugs that are fixed in each patch, I never see them! As for me, LFS is a completely bug-free game.
On the flip side, there's the communication that suffers from coming from such a small team, they seem to barely have the time (I hope) to give us much information about coming up updates, apart of a few, almost bi-yearly huge announcement and subsequent update. I, however, think that it's a problem common to every game that is developed on a regular - semi-regular basis.
Another interesting point is the fact that unlike other games, indeed ALL other games, the main goal of LFS isn't to make money, it's to make LFS. That has a lot to do with the fact that they're taking their time, and probably a lot to do with the fact that it's so bug-free. Scawen really has been releasing a product that, even if it's lacking a few features, is in whole very playable, and I have a lot of fun playing on CTRA servers. Which, by the way brings the point that InSim is quite incredible. It doesn't give programmers too much loose, as they can't edit what could be considered the core of the game - graphics, main idea, etc - but still give them enough loose to make pretty much awesome things. CTRA is just incredible, I can't stand playing on any other servers now that CTRA is there!
On the flip side, there's the communication that suffers from coming from such a small team, they seem to barely have the time (I hope) to give us much information about coming up updates, apart of a few, almost bi-yearly huge announcement and subsequent update. I, however, think that it's a problem common to every game that is developed on a regular - semi-regular basis.
Another interesting point is the fact that unlike other games, indeed ALL other games, the main goal of LFS isn't to make money, it's to make LFS. That has a lot to do with the fact that they're taking their time, and probably a lot to do with the fact that it's so bug-free. Scawen really has been releasing a product that, even if it's lacking a few features, is in whole very playable, and I have a lot of fun playing on CTRA servers. Which, by the way brings the point that InSim is quite incredible. It doesn't give programmers too much loose, as they can't edit what could be considered the core of the game - graphics, main idea, etc - but still give them enough loose to make pretty much awesome things. CTRA is just incredible, I can't stand playing on any other servers now that CTRA is there!
@Stang70Fastback
ill take that 6800gt off ur hands. anything is better than this 7300 >_< lol. [really pm me if u want to send it to me ^^]
anywho, lfs is perfect as it is, i dont like that to most people its the game that "i drift in" but hey, who cares right? their preference what they want to do and i like to casual race, and cruise.
ill take that 6800gt off ur hands. anything is better than this 7300 >_< lol. [really pm me if u want to send it to me ^^]
anywho, lfs is perfect as it is, i dont like that to most people its the game that "i drift in" but hey, who cares right? their preference what they want to do and i like to casual race, and cruise.
That's the polar opposite of me. I played Race07, and when I went back to LFS I saw better (more realistic, albeit with less features) graphics, more useable sound (albeit with less features), and WAY WAY WAY better force feedback. AND LFS has the bigger, better community too. Win-Win as far as I'm concerned.
How do you set up your wheel Tristan? I tried several setups for my G25 but the thing I like is the autocenter efect, what I don´t like is that I don´t feel bumps, like the roads were as smooths as marble 
That's partly because, whilst both games have smooth as marble tracks, the ISI games add random bumps to make it seem more real. However, by doing so (inventing information that isn't present on the track), you actually get further away from mirroring reality.
And last time I checked even bumpy race tracks are pretty damn smooth!
G25 Settings: Varying range from 300 - 900°. 101 Force setting. 0 effect/damper. 0 centering spring. My G25 behaves and feels much like a real steering system, from automatic countersteering, superb feel towards the limit, kerb vibrations (on rough kerbs, not all of which are) etc etc.
Race was pretty crap in the FFB department imo.
And last time I checked even bumpy race tracks are pretty damn smooth!
G25 Settings: Varying range from 300 - 900°. 101 Force setting. 0 effect/damper. 0 centering spring. My G25 behaves and feels much like a real steering system, from automatic countersteering, superb feel towards the limit, kerb vibrations (on rough kerbs, not all of which are) etc etc.
Race was pretty crap in the FFB department imo.
Doesn't have to be like that at all. These gfx versus performance threads get kinda tedious quickly because people seem to forget that most games are scalable (to greater or lesser degrees), and have been made that way for a very long time. Just because there may be future options for more detailed graphics, doesn't mean that suddenly everyone with 3 month or older computers is left out.
You can play Crysis on a Radeon 9xxx series card. It won't look as good, but you can play it. If the devs of LFS want everyone to be able to play their sim, I'm sure they'll find a way to do it. If they want to push beyond what my X800 card can do, then fine with me. I'll just scale back to what is acceptable for me.
No dramas
PS. LFS is cool :yipee:
I think that setup is the same as mine. What I don´t like about LFS force feedback is that you see the car bumping and you don´t feel any vibration in your wheel
Well, back on topic, as I told, LFS is superb anyway
You never feel vibration in a steering wheel in a car. Something is quite wrong if you do. You feel the wheel being forced to turn when hitting large bumps when you are in a turn, but never vibration. Vibration is just something that all other software producers add to the code for "effect" and is unrealistic. This is why LFS is better. LFS doesn't add "effects" into the force feedback that shouldn't be there in the first place.
Not to sure on powersteering-less race cars, but the last time I drove around in my family's car I specifically concentrated on what exactly the steering wheel was doing. Driving over bumps of various sizes and types turned out to be rather uneventful, with almost no force being translated into wheel rotation. Don't get me wrong, I could feel the bumps all fine both through body and wheel/hands, but it simply was a bump each time and not a left/right jerk.
I'm sure the power steering ate a part of the feedback, but it seems that a really large portion of the feedback you get in a real car is composed of information that you cannot portray with a force feedback wheel that can only rotate left and right.
I'm sure the power steering ate a part of the feedback, but it seems that a really large portion of the feedback you get in a real car is composed of information that you cannot portray with a force feedback wheel that can only rotate left and right.
why we love LFS?
(83 posts, started )
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