Quote from HRT SHAUN :

got myself a copy of GT5 prologue the other day, now i wont even bother comparing it to lfs, gt5 is game for the masses, lfs it to appeal to 1 crowd. personally i find gt5 is a blast, good fun to drive real cars with amazing graphics (i am using my g25). i think people just need to realise that they are comparing apples and oranges here, one shouldn't have to be better than the other it is just a play both for different reasons scenario

Exactly what I meant

Also, most of ps3 users probably have lousy net or never played online.
But when the race is lag free and people are playing with steering wheel, I can't really say that this is an arcade game. It is not, really. I can see same basic principles of a simulator in there, just not refined, or whatever.

"whatever" is the difference between immersion and tonka toy suspension of disbelief.

I agree, but certainly not the difference between Sim and arcade. That video was sim enough to me

I'd take your word for it, but so far all I hear from people who've played games like LFS and do at least a bit of racing with real cars is that GT5 is still sub-par physics-wise.

There's no good reason not to have some better physics in the GT games. All they'd have to do is dumb it down in arcade mode. The mode with the best physics would be more fun than the crappy physics in e.g. GT4. GT4 was actualy worse than GT3 on sim tires. Why they did that is probably the same reasoning that would have made them again neglect physics in GT5 (if they did).

All that money and they still put out bad physics.. There's no excuse for that, not when there's an option for arcade physics in the game.
I guess I'll have to try it myself.

Quote from spyshagg :

Exactly what I meant

Also, most of ps3 users probably have lousy net or never played online.
But when the race is lag free and people are playing with steering wheel, I can't really say that this is an arcade game. It is not, really. I can see same basic principles of a simulator in there, just not refined, or whatever.

yep, this replay looks good - comparing my megalagging examples to LFS (in LFS plyer would be disconnected)

What is my opinion? - Scavier should finish S2 as it is now, bugs free and start to create S3 content if they want to have this project going.

Quote from Breizh :

I'd take your word for it, but so far all I hear from people who've played games like LFS and do at least a bit of racing with real cars is that GT5 is still sub-par physics-wise.

Just take a look at this F2007 drift clip.

http://video.google.com/videop ... 682292978477174&hl=en

Quote from JJ72 :

Just take a look at this F2007 drift clip.

http://video.google.com/videop ... 682292978477174&hl=en

...and then compare to real F1 physics in lfs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iZwbsV3xY

It's hardly a secret the BF1 embodies all the major flaw in LFS's physics, even the devs admitted its not up to their standard in how it should behave, so on this front LFS is hardly a worthy reference. It would be fair to call it total bollocks as well. But in most of the scenarios LFS has considerably greater depth and accuracy compare to GT can offer.

Quote from JJ72 :

Just take a look at this F2007 drift clip.

http://video.google.com/videop ... 682292978477174&hl=en

"Drift mode"...

I've only driven GT once, ages ago, but looking at all those videos: I think you can righteously call it a sim... Albeit a very basic, shallow one... It's in a bit of a limbo: it certainly is better thought out than arcade games like Race Driver or DiRT, yet it doesn't have the depth and the realism of true sim titles like GPL, RBR or LfS...

It's hard to tell from the videos, but it seems they got tyres and tyre grip about right, but I don't think they incorporated tyre temperatures (affecting grip), camber or anything else deeper into the matter let alone making them flexible... The cars look too stable under braking, they are too compliant to turn - maybe suspension (/geometry) is also only very basicly modeled, who knows?

One thing I know for sure: I won't be buying a glorified BluRay-player just to find out...

And why is this thread still in the General LfS Discussion-forum???

Quote from Un0RiGiNaL :

yall are some haters
gt5p is gonna be the shit
GT5 is gonna be even better

Unoriginal indeed.

Quote from MarioX :

...and then compare to real F1 physics in lfs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iZwbsV3xY

I think one of [post=154940]these[/post] is much better to dicuss physics - GT5 drifts look suspiciously too easy to handle, ie. BMW130i going out of turn with no swing back whatsoever, maybe gently clean powerslide but... looks too easy...

You say that drifts in GT5 look to easy... well from videos and comments you can't really know is it easy or difficult, neither can I (my ps3+gt5 purchase is still far in the future, when full version is released).

However, I won't be wrong by stating that drifting, high speed sliding and correcting mistakes in LFS IS too easy - you can put the car sideways at high speeds and without loosing control, bring it back in shape without any snapback or unintentional overcorrecting (not always but most of the time). Thats why drifting in lfs isn't rewarding and challenging - it's just simple flick'n'slide affair - I might be wrong here, but imo the problem is in longitudinal grip which doesn't decrease enough as tyres start to spin at low to med speeds and lack(?) of aero lift at high speeds.

No wonder that quite a lot of racers in other pc sim communities consider lfs some sort of drifting sim - as I said, drifting in lfs is too easy and thus attracted huge crowd of people who are not interested in serious simulation...

So drifting too, isn't a subject where LFS can be used as a benchmark, hope you got my drift (pun 100 % intended )

900degs of wheel turn, lot of FF and about 20degs max lock (thou drift cars have it miximized) - and you will not find it easy for certain - no sharp flicking, and snapbacks just from FF.

About F1 - mind that there is a big range of settings for every car - there were RX races with BF1s, I didnt hear anyone tried that in real.

Quote from JJ72 :

Just take a look at this F2007 drift clip.

http://video.google.com/videop ... 682292978477174&hl=en

Quote from MarioX :

...and then compare to real F1 physics in lfs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iZwbsV3xY

Just to make sure people noticed.

I haven't played GT5:P so I will not comment the topic LFS vs GT5:P, hovewer.. Seeing people criticize some flaws of other game, while similar flaws are in lfs is just stupid.

About different topic - Do not make assumptions about physics from videos without real life experience. More over, do not rate physics by their diffucilty. Bartdrift.pl has bought G25, s2 license and drifted in lfs a lot for about 2 weeks. His final opinion was that the physics are awesome, but that the cars are too hard to drift, harder than in real life. He couldn't state if it was physics fault or the fact that cars in lfs are actually quite shit - you should have seen his face when I showed him Porrari and LX4/LX6 extreme drifting.

p.s.: MarioX: What drifting experience do you have in real life?

Quote from AndRand :

I think one of [post=154940]these[/post] is much better to dicuss physics - GT5 drifts look suspiciously too easy to handle, ie. BMW130i going out of turn with no swing back whatsoever, maybe gently clean powerslide but... looks too easy...

Hm it's not easy at all. Maybe it depends on your controller and what "simulation" type (professional, normal etc.) and/or aids you use..
I guess you won't believe it untill you've tried it yourself. But let me put it this way. You have been driving S1 too , right ? I think I remember you from the demo. Anyway.. I'm sure you've drivin the "old" XRT with the lame physics.. remember how that car could be quite a hands full..especially a "fast" oversteered setup ? That's kinda how GT5 feels like in a car like the Corvette Z06. It tends to understeer on corner entry (I'm talking about a "fixed" setup here..unchanged..) but mid-corner and corner-exit you can easily loose it. I'm driving with a G25 and it's not easy at all to catch it.
Maybe if you're cruising around with moderate speeds.. but I guess that's pretty obvious.

If you think its GT5 simulation you are wrong! I played GT2(yep youl say thats gt2 not gt5) no matter how much they try to present it like "real driving simulator" its still arcade game, as someone said on this forum, they need lots of bayers so making 50%arcade+50%simulation brings lots of CASH!
Nobady wants to play realistic games, why ? Bcz games are virtual=not real! I remember when i first time played LFS ,only two of my friends played it also, everybody else said its crap, bcz they couldnt learn how to drive bcz this game is REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR!

Now why is GT5 better! GRAPHIC GRAPHIC AND1000xBETTER GRAPHIC!
So what we need in LFS is just better graphic. People ar cursed coz if things dont change for a while ppl get bored! So if LFS team improve graphic 2xtimes youll notice great interest and euphoria for LFS Simulator!

So you know what to do LFS team , Viking , Ernesto and the third one i forgot name sorry!

Cheers!

after playing it for a week now almost, I gotta say im loving it more and more, the variety is the best part, and im loving the physics more and more each day, they are just beautifull. certainly not a waste of 50 buks.
ohh and some funny info in the week its been out we have recieved patches of about 150mb, thats the same amount of patches LFS released in 2 years, and in those 2 patches 37 cars, 1 track, and some improvments to net, and physics were improved/added now that is looking after your customers
9/10 for GT5, the shifting for the padle shift cars needs to be fixed, atm the shifting is still the same as using a manual, meaning u get the clutch and throttle still being used.

6/10 for LFS for its lack of variety/updates, and poor Graphics, poor Public Realations

This thread is an idiot magnet..... (hell, now even I post in it!)

all I can say about this is.... *sigh* goodbye OP!

Quote from seinfeld :

ohh and some funny info in the week its been out we have recieved patches of about 150mb, thats the same amount of patches LFS released in 2 years, and in those 2 patches 37 cars, 1 track, and some improvments to net, and physics were improved/added now that is looking after your customers

Actually they didn't just made those in the past weeks. Think about it, they could have give them to you AT THE BEGINNING. They don't do it just because they want to lengthen your antiicipation.

Quote from seinfeld :

after playing it for a week now almost, I gotta say im loving it more and more, the variety is the best part, and im loving the physics more and more each day, they are just beautifull. certainly not a waste of 50 buks.
ohh and some funny info in the week its been out we have recieved patches of about 150mb, thats the same amount of patches LFS released in 2 years, and in those 2 patches 37 cars, 1 track, and some improvments to net, and physics were improved/added now that is looking after your customers
9/10 for GT5, the shifting for the padle shift cars needs to be fixed, atm the shifting is still the same as using a manual, meaning u get the clutch and throttle still being used.

6/10 for LFS for its lack of variety/updates, and poor Graphics, poor Public Realations

How many man hours went into each patch?

Personaly i dont care much about graphics, realism is all I want, so LFS for me is perfect. I didnt play GT at all, but still... maybe it has superb graphics, variety... but that's all(?), isn't it? I dont think that GT has the same "feeling" as LFS when You drive cars, right?

Btw. Maybe LFS is updated not to often, but still i think that when in will reach final S3 it CERTAINLY will be perfect .

Ok, here comes a honest opinion from a guy who played all the GT series, and played LFS since early 2004 until now:

First of all, let me say, LFS is still the best when it comes to physics. Not a big surprise, right?

I've always enjoyed the GT series. I just love cars way too much that the bad physics would keep me from playing them. However, when i discovered LFS, it really opened my eyes. Until that point, i thought GT physics would be more or less decent... boy was i wrong!

Nevertheless, i still bought GT4 when it came out. I was quite disappointed with the physics, since i thought they would have improved surely. But no, GT4 physics were in fact almost a step back from GT3 in my opinion. This was the point where i've pretty much given up any hope for better physics with the GT series. It looked like they took the wrong direction... and it all went downhill. It was still a fun game... just to have some fun from time to time and to enjoy the good looking cars.

But now it comes... all this talk about GT5P and all the vids have made me curious. Curious enough to go and buy a PS3, including a G25. I've wanted a G25 for LFS since a long time anyway...

To be honest, my expectations were really low regarding the physics. But i just couldn't resist the temptation of those stunning visuals.

First i tried it with my projector on the big screen... with a pad. It looked amazing, but i was instantly disappointed with the physics. For example, Forza Motorsport 2 is well playable with a joypad while still being "simulation like". GT5P is a complete joke with a joypad. I won't go into any more detail here... it's just complete rubbish, like GT4 (a little better, but it feels terribly similar).

But with the joypad already, regardless the bad physics, i kept playing it for almost 4 hours. Simply because it was still good fun, and looked quite impressive graphics wise.

Then the next day...

I decided to give it a try with the G25. Connected the PS3 to my LCD screen and set up the G25 at the desk.

When you play with the joypad, you can turn of all driving aides etc. But when you connect the wheel, it gives you an additional option to choose, called "simulation" or something like that. I wasn't hoping for much, but gave it a try.

And here it comes...
I was quite impressed!

When i want to see how good the physics of a game/sim are, i always test it with attempting to drift. You'll notice best how good or bad physics are, when you go over the limit.

Now, you can't really compare the physics to LFS. It's still the best there is. But GT5P on simulation mode with a G25 is far better than expected!

I think where the physics of LFS really are standing out is when you start sliding around. You will notice the lack of the LFS tire physics then. I wouldn't say it feels like that "hovercraft" so many people use to describe the GT physics. But you can feel that there is no tire deformation etc.

However...
I've played GT4 with the DFP in 900 degree mode. And compared to this, GT5P improved A LOT!

It's better than GTR and Rfactor etc IMO. Still far away from LFS, but definately decent and playable. The FFB is good and makes you feel the car/weight of the car really good. The handling is predictable, and controllable. With the G25 it feels definately good. Physics are closer to what i would call "simulation", rather than being arcade-ish.

Now that said, go figure...

Halfway decent and very well controllable and predictable physics, plus amazing visuals. Makes a great driving experience for me!

I prefer this to the LFS "combination" of superior physics and outdated graphics. There is no doubt about how superior the physics are compared to any other driving/racing sim out there, but that's about it. If i want great physics or good online racing, i'll go for LFS. If i want decent physics and great visuals/immersion (GT5P graphics), then i'll go for GT5P however.

Again, there doesn't need to be a discussion about which one offers better physics. LFS is clearly the winner. But GT5P with the G25 feels like driving a car after all. And this combined with those visuals... hard to beat, really!

I'm not saying "goodbye to LFS". That would be pretty stupid... but i sure will be buying GT5 when it comes out, and i'll enjoy it a lot, pretty sure about that. Hell, i'm having a blast with GT5P already now!

I'll soon make a little vid of my driving/drifting tests.

Anyway, both people in this thread need to open their eyes. The ones who think GT5P is the ultimate sim, because they couldn't be more wrong (LFS still is!)... and the people who think GT5P hasn't improved since GT4, since it really has, and is quite decent now!

Quote from Byku :

Personaly i dont care much about graphics, realism is all I want.

Eh? wouldn't realistic graphics add to the realism?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L023Gxp4pWM

F2007 reallife vs F2007 GT5P

its like a mirror

Quote from jibber :

snip...

Interesting Jibber, you sound just like I feel about the whole thing.....

I am SERIOUSLY tempted to go out and buy a PS3 for GT5p, I already have a G25, so it might be worthwhile.

I have played GT5p, but only for a short time, and only with a pad, in your personally opinion, and compared to Forza 2, which I believe to be the pinnicle of console "sims" at the moment, would it be worth chucking 299 at a PS3?