And the air having a speed means it has a lower pressure, which is the definition of a partial vacuum, which is what he alluded to.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Have they ditched the Catch-up system in GT5p? At least in online races?
I remember driving GT4 with my friends in split screen, no matter how much you loose someone, he's always there behind you.. it did get a while until we noticed that's it's the Catch-up system used in many arcade games, way to go for a "Real" driving simulator..

I'd forgot about that.. That's one of the top few absolute worst features of GT games, by far.

It's not there anymore... dunno if it's a different story when you don't play it on simulation mode, but in simulation mode, the catch-up system is gone. However, the AI is incredibly dumb and slow.

Why has no mod moved this thread yet? I spy no LFS-relation in here

Quote from crimespree :

just practice, it is very do-able, just like real life your front wheels need to be pointing in right direction when rear grips come back

That doesn't really answer my question...

Quote from jibber :

The G25 was on 900 degrees, and as far as i know, there is no way to change to less degrees (i didn't search for it tho).

I searched and nope, can't change it.

Quote from Whitmore :

While this is a common misconception, the draft isn't due to a vacuum left behind the car in front, and its effects do extend many car lengths behind the lead car. The air (or wake) behind the leading car is dragged along in the direction of the leading car. You can see this if you watch leaves/paper on the road in the wake of a car, or feel it if you stand at the side of the road as a large vehicle such as a bus or truck passes. This air velocity reduces the relative velocity of the following car to the surrounding air, reducing its drag and resulting in a tow.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And the air having a speed means it has a lower pressure, which is the definition of a partial vacuum, which is what he alluded to.

Thank you gentlemen. That explains a bit.

Quote from jibber :

It's not there anymore... dunno if it's a different story when you don't play it on simulation mode, but in simulation mode, the catch-up system is gone. However, the AI is incredibly dumb and slow.

The AI is still pretty dumb, yes. But when driving/racing I always assume everyone else than me is dumb, just for precaution. The AI will be pretty brutal at times, but I've been suprised many times as well, in a good way, by how they react to my presence. I don't agree that they are slow though. There are many races that are incredibly hard to beat. If you're a god, you might get 3rd place and get some prize money. If you turn over to the dark side (standard physics) you can get 3rd consistantly with some practice, but there are still a lot of hard opponents to beat. Like in real life. I think it's a good thing that the AI doesn't behave like they're a bunch of clones, but different people with different styles and skill.

I don't think the pro mode is that much more realistic than the standard, it's just massive understeer at every single corner no matter how fast you enter, or what car you are driving.

Having said that, I still use pro mode but after 5/6 hours on the game, i'm bored of it

Online play is quite smooth but it's just full of NFS players (in the lower ranked cars), once you get the faster and harder to controll vehicles, the racing is a bit better but too many a time I find myself being rammed out of a corner by somenoe who doesn't use his brake pedal...

Quote from jaws99 :

I don't think the pro mode is that much more realistic than the standard, it's just massive understeer at every single corner no matter how fast you enter, or what car you are driving.
...

No, it's not. Simple as that. Appropriate settings before you can ever think to begin to compare anything:

Professional physics, a proper wheel (DFP/G25 or similar. For drive feel of course, not car behaviour), Force feedback mode set to "Simulation", all electronic aids off (ABS, ASM/ESP, TC etc etc). With this you will find that some cars understeer badly, some cars oversteer badly, while some are great at cornering. Once S-class is unlocked, you've got the QTS where you can tune toe, camber, ride height etc to enhance your cornering.

And in the high speed bends (like on high speed ring and daytona speedway) yes of course you will understeer, because of one or both of these: your car is 4wd/fwd and you are too hard on the throttle, or the combination of downforce and too high speed.

I'm still not saying it's as good as LFS, but I'm still saying it is sufficient, as I described in a long post a few pages ago. Read it before commenting on this last bit.

Try the Lotus 111R tuned, which is a cheap car and a perfect showcase for great handling.

Quote from jaws99 :

I don't think the pro mode is that much more realistic than the standard, it's just massive understeer at every single corner no matter how fast you enter, or what car you are driving.

Having said that, I still use pro mode but after 5/6 hours on the game, i'm bored of it

What controller are you using?

Sorry, I have to say this.. but he is right.
Customers should have been informed better of coming things..
Like via email or something. I'm sure that when I'll get ps3 and gt5, I'm gonna play it more than lfs. I've been fan of gt for many years, from times when gt1 were published. LFS is a great game, wins gt4 and every other game 100-0. But fact is that GT5 is gonna win every game.
LFS is going to catch GT5 sometime, but it may take too long.
I understand there is only 3 developers and that's why it takes long,
but I bet they got enough money enough to get more workers.
Imo, they just want to get all respect for themselfs.
And, don't get my reply too seriously its just my opinion of this all.

Other thing is that GT5 has real cars, real tracks.

But I'm going to keep playing LFS for a year or two.

I hope there's gonna be a new update soon to LFS, though those are coming all the time, but there's nothing big in those updates.
It's just like some CS Source updating things.

Sorry for making u ppl angry. :hidesbehi

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

But fact is that GT5 is gonna win every game.

Yes, maybe every game, but despite LFS being a computer game it is also a simulator and GT series is made for the masses and the general public don't want real simulation so GT devs won't waste too much resources to develop a simulator when they earn enough by making a semi-sim.

I don't think you're making people angry. If that is the case, then they sure take stuff too seriously...

I don't think GT is THE GAME tho... it's a really good one that's a lot of fun... but until it will have physics that can more or less compare to LFS, LFS still is the standard for me, no matter how outdated the graphics are.

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :

Yes, maybe every game, but despite LFS being a computer game it is also a simulator and GT series is made for the masses and the general public don't want real simulation so GT devs won't waste too much resources to develop a simulator when they earn enough by making a semi-sim.

So GT5 isn't gonna be a sim?

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

So GT5 isn't gonna be a sim?

Why would it be? There is a simulation mode of course but if that's too real it will turn away people because they will find it too hard.

Quote from From GT5 website.. :

Sony Computer Entertainment Europe and Polyphony Digital are pleased to announce Gran Turismo 5 Prologue™. With stunningly realistic HD graphics, online races and the most accurate physics yet seen in a racing simulator, there’s never been anything quite like it.

Thats not a sim eh?

E: See for yourself

Quote from mcgas001 :

Thats not a sim eh?

E: See for yourself

Haha, maybe on PS3 there is no other game which comes close in physics but on other platforms there are more than one title that beats GT's physics.

GT5P on standard settings isn't what i would call a sim. It's too much dumbed down then. But on simulation mode, it's more of a sim than an arcade game. NFS ProStreet is arcade... GT5P is too "driveable" to be called that.

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :

Why would it be? There is a simulation mode of course but if that's too real it will turn away people.

YARR! If this is true, I'm gonna keep playing LFS.
I though they finally made sim, with inside cam, good physics..:worried:
Well gonna keep on going with :lfs:

But i still prefer what I said about lfs. I want to get info about whats coming, more easily! It's time wasting to search some news from millions of posts in here forum.

E: Going out of my mind.. Is it simulator or not. Is there better physics than in LFS?

It's true that the majority of people won't like it if it's too hard. But if you give them the option to choose between arcade and sim, both sides will be happy.

If you turn on the PS3 and start the game, unless you change something in the settings, it's all dumbed down physics. And the people who want arcade physics will be happy... and probably not even bother with settings. I don't see a problem there.

Quote from jibber :

It's true that the majority of people won't like it if it's too hard. But if you give them the option to choose between arcade and sim, both sides will be happy.

If you turn on the PS3 and start the game, unless you change something in the settings, it's all dumbed down physics. And the people who want arcade physics will be happy... and probably not even bother with settings. I don't see a problem there.

Developing a REAL simulation mode is a very difficult time and money consuming process. If it won't get them enough money in return they won't do it. And when I say real I mean physics that are at least as detailed as LFS' or better. I really hope that someday they will do a hardcore simulaton mode and I will certainly buy it that day.

Some people's attitude and prejudism (spelling?) in here is just ridiculous. If I could shoot the head off of every subjective fanatic I see, I probably wouldn't, but the thought struck me. I think this is showing a bad face for a part of the LFS community. Not being able/willing to look out of the small box. It sort of pisses me off when people see a video or two and say "oh holy mackerel, that is some nasty ass bad physics. Good graphics though, but I'm really not into graphics. I'm too politically correct to admit that graphics help immersion a lot."

I can't wait to get back into LFS, because I love the mature community, in despite of the above mentioned, I love the clean races and the versatility of the physics. And I love the way the devs for the most part give us what we want. I've been away from the game for a couple of years, but I've read through patch Y release notes and it looks amazing!

Just had to blow off some steam there. Please, check things out more before coming here all pretentious and all-knowing. And best of all, try it for yourself with a good wheel and everything set to "sim".


edit:

Quote :

If it won't get them enough money in return they won't do it. And when I say real I mean physics that are at least as detailed as LFS' or better.

Oh please, for god's sake. When you say real you mean like LFS or better? I thought LFS was king of the hill, top of the cake and everything? Patch Y (which you obviously know about) has better physics than the first S2 alpha release, right? So if GT5 had physics like the first S2 alpha release today, you would still whine about it being arcade and not real enough because it's not identical to patch Y?

LFS has the best physics I've ever tried. If GT5's physics were even CLOSE, I would call it the perfect driving experience in your livingroom. But it isn't. It's just sufficient, as I've stated many times before. NFS is rock bottom. And this is GT5:P we have now btw. If you want to comment on the coming GT5, check out Gtplanet.com first for the latest news on that matter. Don't dismiss the fact that they might update stuff for the full game. Like weather, even more sim-options for those who'd like it etc. Maybe you're right about them being greedy SOB's, but since there has been a lot of positive feedback to them about the new physics and a new mass of players becomes interested, why shouldn't they grasp the opportunity and add even more realism to please the new group of people who might buy the coming game. As you say, "they have the money" ...to both dumb it down and notch it up in the same box.

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :

Developing a REAL simulation mode is a very difficult time and money consuming process. If it won't get them enough money in return they won't do it. And when I say real I mean physics that are at least as detailed as LFS' or better. I really hope that someday they will do a hardcore simulaton mode and I will certainly buy it that day.

At least as good as LFS or better huh? Well, then there is only one title that is "allowed" to be called sim. Which is LFS, because honestly, there is nothing better physics wise.

In other words, you think that there are existing NO simulations next to LFS?

I never liked GTR, nor did i like Rfactor (i bought it actually). I would still call them sims tho. As i said... NFS ProStreet is arcade for example, and there is a difference between those... if you can't see that, then i understand your post.

GT5P clearly belongs to the category of GTR and Rfactor etc. In my opinion, it is even better, since it feels more natural and controllable when you loose traction (and recover from that). It clearly isn't in the category of NFS titles anymore.

Again, do you think there are no "games" next to LFS that deserve to be called simulations?

At what point does a game stop becoming a game, and become a sim?, surely its a tough point to quantify?