I assume you've also tried to see it from our side, yes?
We've been bitched at all season for the coldness of tires after running behind the SC and for the accidents caused by drivers driving beyond their limits/the limits of their cars on cold tires. Perhaps you can understand our fear of sending a field of ice skaters into this particular T1 on this longest track on the schedule. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This is what i was saying. We're not accusing wrong-doing, but the circumstances were questionable to the rest of the field. Extra care is neccesary, even in such a stressfull environment.
Stu got it part right. Extra care is necessary. However, I DO ACCUSE you guys of non-impartiality and will do so based on last years and this years ACTIONS by you guys. You may not outwardly mean it but it has happened.
BenjiMC, Lets just say you have your opinions and I have mine but I'm basing mine on more than this one series. And a long as I have free speech I'll say what I want how I want to say it. But I will be glad to receive notice the next time you or your favorite team get screwed in the same deal as other here have suffered.
Ive seen no "closed" or "private" tags on this discussion, so here is my point..
What do drivers in Formula One and other types of Motorsport do to keep tyres warm while under a safety car?
Exactly.
Perfectly possible in lfs, if the drivers can control the cars. Incidently, the ability of each driver to control his or her car is not the responsibility of the event admins or organisers, but of the actual driver themselves.
Cant really understand it no. Its not your responsibility DWB.
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(pearcy_2k7)
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by DeadWolfBones : unnecessary
We allowed weaving under SC previously and it hurt a lot more than it helped. First of all it doesn't put that much heat in the tires, and second it produced at least one under-SC incident per race. I agree it's not my responsibility to control the drivers' cars for them, but it IS my responsibility to identify patterns of poor behavior and take steps to fix them.
They work the brakes really hard and use the carbon fibre discs as huge hotplates to heat the tyres. Weaving side to side, in LFS or in real life, does not do a lot. Weaving just provides friction, but to really heat tyres you need load.
I want to make my previous posting clear and to apologize to DWB and Benji as their positions as administers of the series has them at the receiving end of my words. I meant to be harsh but not insulting to you too and it seems to me I have crossed that line more than I wanted to. For that apology offered.
This quote is from a post to my teammates at our forums private section. I share it to clear the air.
As was posted in Round 4: Confirmation Thread I was listed in the 02 car entry. That came about as there was only one driver available to drive the car as of last Tuesday. So as to not hang out a teammate I offered to put my feelings aside to drive with him even though I knew I hated to drive the FZR and I would suffer in lap times for it. Thankfully Paul "BEERcobra" was able to make the event and relieve me from the driving duties.
I love what LOTA is trying to do with IGTC, I have a house full of wife, GROWN kids, a grand child with unwed mother living with us now and when I take the time to practise and race this series and get the bad end of a deal, I have to make a decision as to weather I can keep doing it. The actions I experienced made the decision for me and I said so in the round three thread. I still stand by it.
I really do wish much success to this series and organization.
The NO weaving rule is a good one! The tires cooling down is the SAME for everyone unless some teams use better pit strategy. SO BE IT! Get over it people.
It was great to watch the front running cars making the best of their cold tires on restarts. Very cool to watch the car control....which is what racing is about anyway.
I'm gonna speak honesty. I feel that there's a lot of good decisions made by the admins, with great speed especially during the race. Sure some teams might disagree with them on occasion, but imagine yourself in that position, thinking "Do we start, or do we wait, causing more incidents on the restart". Personally on those same grounds I'd take the safer one because incidents are just... bad.
People may criticise the admins for their calls during the race, but I think that the calls they do make are for the better of the event and I do applaud them for doing their best to ensure a fair season. Some might think the admins can improve, which they can because nobody is perfect, but I think that they do a very good job.
I agree with my fellow teenager on this. I understand how hard it is to make decisions, so not everyone will always be happy with them, but people have to learn with it, present complaints in a calm manner and accept the resolutions. If after every incident you start accusing the admins of benefiting this and that and screwing those and the others, beside not helping your cause, it's going make you look a bit silly.
I really try to stay neutral all the time but I just have to point this out.
The problem is that you were unwilling to change a rule during another race when one of our cars was flipped by another car. You said that you can't just go changing the rules in mid season. So we ended up getting screwed because of somebody else's lack of driving skills. You were not willing to make a change or provision then even though our car was an innocent victim in that case.
Fast forward to race 4 - you say that you can change the rules when you see fit in the best interest of all parties involved.
Ok, do you see the inconsistency here?
I understand why Nolan is angry. He's not alien fast. He has to practice a lot, he puts in a lot of time to prepare. Then he gets pretty much shafted only to find out later that you could of prevented it if you wanted too. It was obviously at the admin's discretion the whole time, at least according to what you've said here.
Ironically those same 2 or 3 are the ones that feel they are constantly getting the short end of the stick. Ask yourself how you would feel.
I don't envy any of you. Admining these things are a no win situation. Like you said you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Good luck.
Just to clarify, I am not taking sides nor will I. I'm just pointing out the issue that started all this.
I'm sorry that the incident last race must've sucked for you, but there's no realistic way to fix it. Some drivers didn't have their game faces on and messed up, and you got caught out in it in the worst possible way. But people get caught out in messes through no fault of their own in racing all the time, all you can really do is hand out a penalty if there's a clear offender and go on. During the penalty discussions someone from S3R cited our incident with TDRT as an example to apply to their incident, ignoring the fact that we got a 5 minute penalty through someone else's actions which speaks highly against what's being discussed here. Although, in this case a rule change was made decreasing the 'stuck penalty' length although the new penalty will still hurt just as much as it originally hurt us in a normal race considering we had a 2nd SC under our penalty. But, in your case no viable rule changes are available. Giving someone back position from an incident on track just never happens outside of minor bumps where the two drivers can easily just swap back, and in this case you got hurt by that more than most.
Mainly, this talk of bias has got to go. DWB isn't the only one who makes decisions, and these admins volunteer 5 hours of their weekend to help run this thing giving up their ability to have fun driving for their respective teams. At some point, a decision has to be made and feel free to argue with the decision, but don't outright harass admins that are just here to help. Hell, if you want to just spy on us during the race, come on the vent server and watch as dwb comes out of the admin channel and says hello for a few seconds 2-3 times a race (and we transmit secret messages to eachother via mic switching morse code).
It was unfair to TDRT to restart the race a lap early. TDRT would have caught up and had hotter tires, but that's the way the rules are written, and that's what would have been fair. It benefited the other 26 teams, but it was not fair.
The point we're really trying to make is to have the Right rules in place such that on-the-fly decisions are not neccessary.
Can you guys see where Nolan is coming from here:
-The TDRT was left a minute behind the field against the written rule. None of the (4?) admins were aware which team was being hurt by this.
-The My3id car was not further penalized after breaking the 3-lap pentalty rule. Judgement call not to enforce the rules because of their "confusion". Benefit of the doubt - My3id
-At Fern Bay, the #30 was punted out of the race under a SC. The Judgement call was to enforce the (out-of context) rules and not allow the 30 to rejoin. Benefit of the doubt - against 30
His language was uncalled for. The admins need to come up with their own standards, but to apply them fairly to every team.
Have you ever seen a car that crashes out be allowed to rejoin the race by magical powers? Thought so. That is the point here. You've probably noticed IGTC is one of the LFS series that has the most focus on realism, no shift-Ps, etc, so there is no reason you should be allowed to rejoin after crashing. All you can hope for (and expect) is a penalty for the offending team.
Do I really need to point out the error in your post. Cars crash all the time. They pit to fix damage, go back out to stay on the lead lap, pit to fix damage, go back out on the lead lap, pit to fix damage, etc. Until they feel like they've fixed as much as they can. It's not magical powers, it's called normal operations.
