Nope, it's crystal clear! The macro is an automation never intended or supported by the sim itself.
Nope, it's crystal clear! The macro is an automation never intended or supported by the sim itself.
It's much better to experiment with road cars (the UFR for example).
The UFR is not actually a road car - but any car with an h-gate gearbox would be a better contender to spot the time advantage than a sequential.
I meant road-car as opposed to single-seaters! But yes, the H-shifter enabled cars is a better way to separate them.
You are right, LFS has a pretty advanced scripting system and if you try to setup a script to press the clutch and change gear at the same time it doesn't allow it. So therefore we can conclude that it is a specifically dissallowed function within LFS and we shouldn't seek to over ride it via an external application as it definately is not in the spirit of the game.
Knowing that it can easily be overriden by recording macros in your wheel software though I would hope that this exploit will be prevented at some future point. The easiest way I suspect would be to limit the clutches button control rate to a more human level.
Hmm... I just did some more investigation and I'm not convinced it actually is any faster.
I did four different types of tests on the drag strip with the UF1 (with a random race set) chose the UF1 as it will give the least wheel spin and suffer the most from lag between gear changes.
Test 1 - paddle gears and auto clutch Best run 1st split 11:21 final time 17:49
Test 2 - used keyboard gear and button clutch seperately and totally manual Best run 1st split 11:23 final 17:52
Test 3 - macro gear/clutch Best run 1st split 11:22 final 11:50
Test 4 - clutch on axis paddle gears Best run 1st split 11:25 Final 17:53
# used button control rate of 10 for all tests.
So it is not conclusive that it is faster, the main advantage of using a macro would be consistency, but then you already get that from using sequential style gear changes so it's a mute point.
I'm guessing the guys that are bettering their lap times with a macro is just because of a placibo effect
Ok, so after spending 2 days posting in and following this thread I decided to try and use my profiler to create a button clutch/shift up/down macro.
I couldn't do it! lmao
So I guess I will continue not to cheat 
Just doesn't work. press c - press x - release x - release c ... and all sorts of variations didn't get me any shifts in lfs ... sometimes when I flapped my paddles like a madman I'd get an upshift.
Had I spent that 30 mins actually practicing the circuit I'd probably have gained more time than trying to get the damn macro to work ... lol
aceracer
I couldn't do it! lmao
So I guess I will continue not to cheat Just doesn't work. press c - press x - release x - release c ... and all sorts of variations didn't get me any shifts in lfs ... sometimes when I flapped my paddles like a madman I'd get an upshift.
Had I spent that 30 mins actually practicing the circuit I'd probably have gained more time than trying to get the damn macro to work ... lol
aceracer
lmao!
(care for ctra 1 race again tonight? :razz
Hmm, tried with c key and experienced the same as you. But it works properly if using one of the wheel buttons assigned as clutch.
Since when is a cheap wheel with low wheel rotation an advantage against a G25?
But that was the reason I brought it up... The fact is LFS allows auto clutch, and unless you use an axis for the clutch, you should leave it on auto... That is, if it gives you an unfair advantage to use a button clutch.
Sorry, I understand the first post was a little unclear on the point I was trying to get too...
Yeah I'll be on!
Leave your cheats at home - you won't need them against me - lol
aceracer
Actually, I managed to do it finally. I didn't to win time cause sometimes the clutch would get stuck for like 1 second.
I doubt you will ask that question if you had a G25 or used it properly (meaning 720/900* rotation, manual clutch and H-shifter)
Countersteering without a need to change positioning of your hands on the wheel is easier,
Using paddle shifting is a lot easier than a shifter, you have tiny chances to mis-shift unlike with H-Shifter
thats just the most obvious reasons, there are some more
Yes but there is another solution, just as effective.
Restricting the clutch button rate to autoclutch standards is enough.
As I said earlier, clutch is one of the car’s controls, no need to explain why you may need to use it manually, whatever the controller you have.
That testing is not so accurate as it sounds, since the "take off" when the lights go green is not anymore automatic, the times on drag strip are depending a lot on reaction times… and just 400meters of acceleration are not enough to show clear advantage regardless your reaction time which is something not standard.
And after all.. you pick the wrong cars
[edit] the default BF1 auto clutch is faster than the button clutch. (Don’t know where I show you refer to BF1 times. I must have illusions :schwitz [/edit]As for the UF1… well only 4 shifts and with a already asthmatic engine. (There is not that much difference if you are on or off the throttle :tilt
Faster shifts always help and that’s a fact.
You have to be really consistent to actually measure the difference.
Also I have no reason not to take account Worm’s measures, because I know how hard it is to improve your time by one tenth when you are close to the combo’s lap time limit
That would do the trick...
I also thought that, but we still can script a button to invert the clutch axis while it changes gears
Does really LFS allow these kind of settings been done via insim? Didn’t know that… Well there should be a restriction to that also... there is no point to invert an axis without being at the proper game menu.
Before this thread dies i will like to see a "superior opinion (Devs)" about if it is a cheat or not... now i see that the community (the fast ones) see it like one, i agree with them... Because the dev's are the god's of the game they can do something about it...
And if your are very practised at starts and are tuned in (i.e. not in a daze
) you can actually be suprisingly consistent. My best runs of a serries of 5 will always be within 0.00 - 0.03 range of my possible best.While it may only be 3 gear changes that is the amount on average between sectors on BL1 for example where I was under the impression myself that 0.1
per sector difference was possible because of a macro. But now I doubt it.
I do vaguely remember Scawen fixing this issue some time ago but are not 100% certain
And as for 0.1 - 0.2 difference in lap time, imo it is quite achievable at the top level. It happens all the time that is why records don't stay static for long periods of time on say BL1 which is hotlaped to death. Most people get stuck in a certain range because their brains are telling them there is no more time to be found on this combo. Now if you set a macro for gear changes and are of the belief that it is faster then I do definately believe that it is possible for that individual to go out and get a new pb or lap record. That is a phenomenon that is well documented in many rl highest level sports.
So at this stage I remain unconviced it actually is any faster. Would be good to hear Scawen comment on the progam side of things, and would be good to do some more tests. I may do some more in other cars tonight for comparison.
Did you actually read about the tests we did? I'm consistently 0.2-0.3s faster on every combo I've tried this on. And that's just on the short tracks. It's not my imagination, nor a placebo effect that causes it.
I did read that before and I do take it on board (I don't disbelieve you), I was just saying I'm not 100% convinced it actually is from the faster clutch action
If it is such an obvious thing many people should be able to replicate it. It is possible it's caused by something else is all I'm saying, like a combination of factors on certain peoples setup (i.e. could be a bug) and that I'd be interested in seeing it investigated further.
If it is such an obvious thing many people should be able to replicate it. It is possible it's caused by something else is all I'm saying, like a combination of factors on certain peoples setup (i.e. could be a bug) and that I'd be interested in seeing it investigated further.
Cheat may not be the right word, exploit is probably more accurate.
What ever you call it and no matter how minute amount of time it may save its imho its pretty unsporting. One of the definitions for the word cheat is "defeat someone through trickery or deceit".
Its not cool and people will always think less of the guys that use it..
What ever you call it and no matter how minute amount of time it may save its imho its pretty unsporting. One of the definitions for the word cheat is "defeat someone through trickery or deceit".
Its not cool and people will always think less of the guys that use it..
bawbag, worm, arco, duck, who have posted on this topic, are amongst the guys who can drive consistently many laps in a pace close to the(ir) wrs. When they all agree to the advantage the macro gives, there isn't really any reson for anyone not to count on their oppinion.
As for me, I have never used it and I never will (not even for testing it). Although my human nature would very much like to fill in the charts with wr's, I'm not that desparate for them to use unethical means (not that I could, with or without the macro
). And this goes to any hotlap, not only wr's.I think the point is that it's not just the smidge of acceleration extra, it also helps the balance of the car etc.
Correct, it also helps alot in braking, because the clutch doesn't upset the balance of the car as you said. You can shift down into corners and hardly have to rev match (blip the throttle) and the car still hardly loses traction
Is this a cheat?
(625 posts, started )
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