Quote from RocksGt :

From here:




Why do you say "with the script"? Who are you referring to? arrechee has said he didn't use the script ever... could you prove he did?

when you are watching wr in hotlap analyser,u can see the blue mark goes only a bit up,now if you even push a button for clutch(which is no problem for me) it should go just all the way up as the regular type of shifting does,isnt it?

Isn't it funny how people buy wheel and pedals for a simulator, and then use automation to make driving easier illepall I don't care if they are faster or not, but what annoys me is that they won't be misshifting as often as ones using all manual shifting. Think about it; a tight race, concentration might slip a bit and you misshift in a critical turn on exit. Well.. on a full manual atleast..

Quote from e2mustang :

when you are watching wr in hotlap analyser,u can see the blue mark goes only a bit up,now if you even push a button for clutch(which is no problem for me) it should go just all the way up as the regular type of shifting does,isnt it?

Don't know... I'm not an user of HL analyser, and I've never used clutch button either

The only thing I know is that I have the word of someone who was accused of using the macro when he claims he never used it and I just want to know if someone have any evidence for the acusation apart that he can beat WR's by tenths

Button clutch is needed for users of controllers without a third pedal to launch the car. Maybe it could be disabled for gearshifts but only allowed for launches and clutching in during crashes ...

duke, if you enable a button for the clutch, it still engages the clutch even when autoclutch is on, so it doesn't really matter.

RockGt, start using the hotlap analyser, it isn't hard to work out, then you can get your evidence.

Quote from Bawbag :

duke, if you enable a button for the clutch, it still engages the clutch even when autoclutch is on, so it doesn't really matter.

So it wouldn't be removing button clutch - it would be forcing autoclutch when button clutch is enabled.

Quote from The Very End :

There is a lot of evidences, so don't try to pretend you all got clean hands.

But really, I don't care. I have seen people using that cheat online, you can tell it by abnormally fast gear chance in slow S1 cars, aswell no heat what so ever on the clutch.
If your fine using it - do it, but don't expect that I ever will be showing you any respect.
And yes, I am not pointing directly to you, but the people that has been, and are using it.

LOL

You can see my HL when you want... You could read "automatic clutch" in all of my laps. I am slow racer and I hate to do HL

I understand you, but it is very unlike to acuse people this way

Quote from Bawbag :

RockGt, start using the hotlap analyser, it isn't hard to work out, then you can get your evidence.

I'm not a Hotlapper so I've used the HL analyser to see my errors in few combos, but usually I don't have time for study the graphs or I prefer (and it's better for my practise) to expend it on the track

Anyway if you know how to see if someone is using or not the macro by looking at the analyser I would be pleased to know it in order to clean the name of few mates that has been accused and they claim they never used it

Thanks in advance bawbag and keep the good work I've learnt a lot from your replays

Quote from RocksGt :

Ok, someone said before the opposite, but anyway, arrechee said that he uses button clutch, no script and no macro. He just have the clutch assigned to a wheel button and he presses it at every gear shift... don't see what the problem is

How does this work exactly? If he presses the clutch without lifting the throttle, there should be a rise in engine revs. I don't see that happening. And why can't they use autoclutch? It's been asked before, but no one seems to want to give an answer.

Quote from RocksGt :

Anyway if you know how to see if someone is using or not the macro by looking at the analyser I would be pleased to know it in order to clean the name of few mates that has been accused and they claim they never used it

Look at the clutch graph, and you'll see the time difference in engaging the clutch.

Quote from arco :

How does this work exactly? If he presses the clutch without lifting the throttle, there should be a rise in engine revs. I don't see that happening. And why can't they use autoclutch? It's been asked before, but no one seems to want to give an answer.

Well I don't know how exactly he shift gears, I only know that he does not use any script nor macro so I assume he must press the button with every shift

One thing I've discussed with my teammates that impressed me about arreche's driving technique was how he downshift (back in early S2 times) extremely quick without losing control, blocking the tires and braking in extremely low space.

But I repeat it, I'm not a Hotlapper, I'm a very slow racer (trying to get to Bench in every combo, but not always I get it ) so I'm more focused in endurance and constant driving than on flatshifting techniques and advance time scratching .

Anyway if you have some questions I can try to get the answers from him, but this morning he was very dissapointed with people accusing him of doing something "unfair" when the only thing he does is give his best.

The reason for button clutch he gave was that he don't have a clutch pedal and he find manual clutching quicker than auto-clutch and, as far as I know, manual clutch via button it's not an unfair adavantage, isn't it?

Quote from arco :

Look at the clutch graph, and you'll see the time difference in engaging the clutch.

Could you compare his graphs with ones from a person actually using the macro to see if there is a difference? I've read from some people that macro clutch it's not actually quicker than manual clutch but I don't even know if it's true...

I don't give a damn about the people who use the macro, which I don't like, but I also don't like people accusing someone without any evidence and just saying "take a look at the analyzer".

Ok... take a look at this evidence:
http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=h ... ;config=cadet&car=UF1

Donwload and play arrechee's WR for this combo (AS1 - UF1). You can see how many times there's a miss when he up-shifts. It was some weeks ago. I asked him directly and he told me that his old sidewinder (or whatever it is) wheel had the up-shift paddle a little broken and some times it won't make contact and the gear just won't kick in, so he has to keep pressing the clutch button and hitting the paddle until the paddle works. There's even a time when he shifts up involuntarily two gears because the paddle makes a double contact. Does the clutch macro generate that behaviour? I hope no one says now that this is macro clutch...

Now some people will say that using the clutch in a button -not using a macro- is also illegal.

Quote from RocksGt :

The reason for button clutch he gave was that he don't have a clutch pedal and he find manual clutching quicker than auto-clutch and, as far as I know, manual clutch via button it's not an unfair adavantage, isn't it?

In earlier patches you could shift manually using a button clutch. You could preselect a gear of choice, and then press the clutch to do the shift. That's not possible anymore, as far as I know. Looking at his earlier hotlaps he was using autoclutch, so this switch to not using it seems to have happened quite recently.

Quote :

Could you compare his graphs with ones from a person actually using the macro to see if there is a difference? I've read from some people that macro clutch it's not actually quicker than manual clutch but I don't even know if it's true...

Well, it's not easy finding someone that is 100% certain using macro, as they all deny it. But I think it's pretty certain that Pecholobo was using it, so I compared their hotlaps on AS1/UF1. If someone is using autoclutch, the graph would be at 100 on each shift. Here they are mostly faster than that.

There's a couple other things that I find strange. Like using hybrid tires all around and extremely strong brakes. Dunno what that's about...

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

Donwload and play arrechee's WR for this combo (AS1 - UF1). You can see how many times there's a miss when he up-shifts. It was some weeks ago. I asked him directly and he told me that his old sidewinder (or whatever it is) wheel had the up-shift paddle a little broken and some times it won't make contact and the gear just won't kick in, so he has to keep pressing the clutch button and hitting the paddle until the paddle works. There's even a time when he shifts up involuntarily two gears because the paddle makes a double contact. Does the clutch macro generate that behaviour? I hope no one says now that this is macro clutch...

Yes, that's a known side effect of using macro.

Quote from arco :

Yes, that's a known side effect of using macro.

I wonder why it only happens to arrechee then. And double up-shift... how can you say that's a side effect of macro clutch? Dude, don't try to make up shit. Believe it or not there are guys FASTER than you (and quite a bunch, tbh).

Dude! I can say that because I have tested the macro myself, and experienced the mishift myself! And I know they are faster. No one is discreditting their fastness, dude! So don't come here telling me I'm talking shit. For ****s sake dude! Go try it yourself!

Quote from arco :

But I think it's pretty certain that Pecholobo was using it, so I compared their hotlaps on AS1/UF1. If someone is using autoclutch, the graph would be at 100 on each shift.

The LFS hotlap analyser is not accurate enough to see, if you use wsinda's analyser it gives a different picture.

If your using the online HL analyser, it is not good enough to see how the clutch is working as it is only displaying data at 10 Hz that means it diplays data segmented into 0.1 sec increments where as the physics engine and replays a recording in 100 Hz which means 0.01 sec increments.

A fully manual shift with the G25 takes 0.15 sec on averages, macro clutch changes I have observered take 0.16 - 0.25 sec on average and the autoclutch takes 0.2 sec consistently.

The most significant difference is that the autoclutch stays at 100% engagement for a full 0.1 sec where a manual clutch, button clutch and macro shift stays at full engagement for only 0.05 sec which is less than the smallest increment the LFS analyser shows - that is why it appears to not reach 100% in that analyser

So you are making an assumption on wrong data... All the LFSWorld analyser can prove is that they are not using the autoclutch

Quote from Victor :

We only store the 10hz versions.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=800783#post800783

Quote from Glenn67 :

So you are making an assumption on wrong data...

So the hotlap analyzer on lfsworld is in reality useless? Well, maybe it isn't accurate down to a microscopic level, but I think it roughly shows the differences. Anyway, after reading about the tests you've done (which someone else obviously hasn't), I'm pretty much agreeing with your findings. As it is now, autoclutch seems to be at a clear disadvantage compared to the other methods.

Quote from arco :

So the hotlap analyzer on lfsworld is in reality useless?

Well no it's not useless, it does what it was intended to do and that is give newcomers a tool to better their driving. It's just not very good for this type of detailed analysis

Quote from acro :

Anyway, after reading about the tests you've done (which someone else obviously hasn't), I'm pretty much agreeing with your findings. As it is now, autoclutch seems to be at a clear disadvantage compared to the other methods.

it seems that there is a direct correlation to how long a post is too how little people are willing to read it!

:inq:

Quote from arco :

In earlier patches you could shift manually using a button clutch. You could preselect a gear of choice, and then press the clutch to do the shift. That's not possible anymore, as far as I know. Looking at his earlier hotlaps he was using autoclutch, so this switch to not using it seems to have happened quite recently.

As far as I know he come back to LFS after some months focused on his karting races, he changed his old PC and he started testing new configurations, views, etc... so it's possible he started with autoclutch and then moved to clutch button if he found it quicker or better for controlling the car . The only thing I know for sure is that he DO NOT use the macro. If anyone wants to accuse him for doing then he may show a better reason than LFS-World showing he uses button clutch and that he's beat a few WR's (he owns 3 at the moment).

Quote from arco :

Well, it's not easy finding someone that is 100% certain using macro, as they all deny it. But I think it's pretty certain that Pecholobo was using it, so I compared their hotlaps on AS1/UF1. If someone is using autoclutch, the graph would be at 100 on each shift. Here they are mostly faster than that.

There's a couple other things that I find strange. Like using hybrid tires all around and extremely strong brakes. Dunno what that's about...

They all don't deny it . Pecholobo has said that he use the macro and everyone trusted him. arreche says he doesn't and people still don't believe

If you find strong the arrechee's brakes take a look at Zanini's one... that man may have uber-sensitive foot for not locking tires in every braking . And the choice of hybrid in the UF1 it's very common, they heat faster and get better times by sliding the car a bit on the closed bendings

Quote from arco :

Well, it's not easy finding someone that is 100% certain using macro, as they all deny it.

What about me?

Hello,

Only two points:

.I dont use ilegal programs to gear box

.I can prove that i did not cheat.

No more complain and GO more fast in a HL

Quote from -M- :

What about me?

You DO NOT use the macro. Just a script for automatic clutch pressing at stick shifting, but (correct me if I'm wrong) if you don't set the button rate, there is no advantage (except not having to press the button in every shifting)

Quote from RocksGt :

You DO NOT use the macro. Just a script for automatic clutch pressing at stick shifting, but (correct me if I'm wrong) if you don't set the button rate, there is no advantage (except not having to press the button in every shifting)

What button rate?
OMG nowadays nobody can cheat without a Cheating Master