Quote from Bob Smith :

There is good reason that race car gearboxes, along with the reverse gear in road cars, use straight cut gears.

That said, helical isn't inherently a problem, I'm sure the gears are designed to withstand the maximum torque of the motor by a sensible safety margin. It might start to cause issues for those people who modify their motors to provide more torque.

Would be much more of an issue for people who replace the wheel with a larger one (or F1 type) as the extra weight would do the same thing as a motor mod as far as the gears are concerned. Seems like a more common thing to do also.

PS: (Not to Bob) Complaining about the yellow dress?!? Seriously???

Maybe we should just ban forums?

Quote from fujiwara :

Nice.
Btw, it is Dave Sauders or Souders ?

Edit: great driving

You don't drive a bike, you ride it!

Quote from Funnybear :

I'm going racing . . . who's with me?

Me too! I'm going to race the solstice @ Lowes road course for a bit. I can't wait till the 28th, when the spec racer ford is released

Quote from Danny LFS :

Originally Posted by S14 DRIFT
"When will the VWS be released?"

NEXT MONTH! (in Iracing)





Fixed.

More fixed.

Quote from BOSCHO :

its coming

Someone should slap you.

The only problem I have with this is that is assumes the idea is to make money. Scawen has stated;

Quote from Scawen :

We have seen before and don't wish for the responsibility of employees and running a company, with all that would bring and the inevitable consequences of turning LFS into a full-blown commercial product where money would become the most important thing.

I must agree, and this is where it becomes a philosophy discussion. I tend to think that modern economic principles are flawed, and that an economy based currency rather than resources is doomed, or at least retarded (in the literal sense, IE it's growth is slowed). More likely though is this idea, this is simply a hobby that they enjoy, and happen to make some money from. They may have decided that the quality of their lives does not depend on money, but rather the day to day living.

I get the impression that they are making a physics engine, from the ground up. When you consider how close LFS is to the serious competition (Iracing imo) thats pretty impressive. LFS is actually superior in a number of ways too. If LFS could match iRacing's tracks there would be no contest. Sure the "Stock" graphics aren't as pretty as iRacing, but if you can see the difference you are going to slow...and if you add the high res packs it looks close enough really.

So I guess I've finally realised that I'm completly OK with the idea that LFS may be finished in 2014, because I bet by that time, it will still be at the top of the SIMs on the market. And probably for a lot cheaper that the competition too.

Quote from FlyeThemoon :

Strage some people put many complications of this, write in you tube Nigga stole my bike there maaaaany videos of this. Why Dont Removes this videos ? WHY ? ITS FUNNY!!!!

Well, if you look at the average maturity level of youtube, that might be your answer. This is funny to you maybe, but most of the less primitive societies find it disgusting. I guess if you've only got friends from one group of society you don't know any better yet, but that's still no excuse.

Quote from Crommi :

Potentiometers have certain coil-thickness that contributes to number of steps it has. G25 pedal pots don't seem to have very thin coils that would give you 1024 steps, also they're not even being used for their full range (try turning pots beyond pedal movement limits and input is still linear).

Simply increasing output resolution to drivers does not magically make pedal pots more accurate.




That is just complete BS.

Maybe, maybe not. I've got one installed in front of me, opened the calibration window and DXtweak2 both, and they both show 0-1023 steps, and the numbers change 1 at a time when I move the pedals. So there it is. Maybe there is some sort of interpolation involved but it works.

There is also a new loadcell add-on for the G25 pedals too, I'll be installing mine soon enough and I'll let you all know how it works. Here's a picture.
http://www.mindspring.com/~colin.maclean/brake.jpg

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I think we should do nothing. If it aint broke, don't fix it. You can do what you like but most people will stay as regulars to the server of their choice, irrespective of what happens.

That's the spirit! oh wait, it's not.

Next!

Quote from zeugnimod :

Hm, no, read the posts again.

Ahh OK, you just can't type

3/4 means .75

3,4 or 3 to 4 is what you were going for. I get it now.

A lot of great ideas being bounced around here. I like the ideas of;

- getting more organized
- keeping stats
- rotating tracks (what about cars?)
- using the games chatroom/ meetingroom
- artificial chicanes /
- Low time between consecutive races
- giving people goals
- qualifying laps affect your start position (even go iRacing style where if you are new/have no qualifying time you start at the back)
- sub forum to organize pickup racing (though I'd also like to see more emphasis on the games meetingroom, since not all racers check the forum regularly)
- forum "trophy" icons

But one of the biggest things is to keep it easy to "organize" so we learn from CRTA's mistakes. I'd also like to see a way to get more people using the in-game meetingroom. That would help everyone I think, even the weird drifters! Is there a way to have a server rotate tracks and cars with Airio maybe?

So, what ideas so far do you all like?

Quote from zeugnimod :

It actually was 2 years (and 3 or 4 months) for the MRT and 3/4 years for the LXs.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Ok, I thought the MRT was released in December 2004. But I was right about the LXs.

But, but, you said the MRT was released almost 2 years before the LX's! What are you smoking and can I have some?

Quote from The Very End :

Well, we can make more diversity on the servers, using new / unused combos. Other than that, well we can make new DDS textures in higher res, new skins, and generally be more nice to each other, that's about everything we can do - since the devs doesn't want our help

But tbh this topic will lead to no good.

Actually, I'm not referring to any development changes. More like things we can do ourselves. The artificial chicanes idea is a good start. I'm wondering if there is a way to maybe convince people to, er, shut down some of the duplicate servers?

Ok, I've finished with my whine and it's time to be positive now. So, the question is, What can we do to make LFS even more fun for everyone (or at least the majority)?

As Scawen pointed out there are actually a decent amount of racers online, with a peak of 1800 total (demo included) today. What TagForce mentioned though, is that there is almost one server for every racer. Now I thought this a really good point but the question remains; What can we do about this?

PS: Please put your thinking caps on and remember, positive comments only.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Quote from McDee :

I started playing LFS a month after it was released so I may have some experience that you don't when it comes to LFS's past.

Are you sure? Because this is wrong:

Quote from McDee :

All of those threads were created over 2 years after the cars where released. 4 years in the case of the MRT5. What's your point? That I'm wrong is claiming LFS was still alive in 2007 and that it was actually dying earlier? That supports my "theory" btw.

It actually was 2 years (and 3 or 4 months) for the MRT and 3/4 years for the LXs.

Ok, ya got me started on a mission now.

Most of this data is from : http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/About_LFS

- August 2003 I joined LFS forums
- 17.07.2003: Release of Live for Speed S1, the first full LFS release. I'll give you that 0.04 was released over a year before this, but it was not an official release, since it was leaked and it was basically a demo. So I joined a month after they started charging for it.
- 18.08.2002: 0.04k - The first public LFS version ever
- 15.12.2003: 0.3E - Adds a new car (MRT5)
As for the LX release dates, http://en.lfsmanual.net/index. ... le=Cars&oldid=1941#S1 says they were released with S1, soooo that puts us back to 17.07.2003 again.
Here's a site that was talking about the LX6 in S1 http://www.gamershell.com/news_7946.html
Here is a link to Blackhole Motorsports reviewing LFS S1 in 2003 and he mentions the LX's in it. http://www.bhmotorsports.com/review/LFS/2

Had enough yet?

Quote from NightShift :

I.e. it's probably easier to find a cruise server than to race the car you'd like

Agreed, and even though it may not sound like it, I really like LFS. While I miss the days of firing up LFS and seeing a new car, that was not what kept me coming back (I guess the fact I'm still here proves that? ;p). It was the way the cars handled and what you could do with them. I would trade new content for new racers anyday, but it just doesn't work like that. To get new racers (or even old LFS'ers who haven't been on in years) back we need a carrot. New content is usually that carrot.

Anyways I appologise if my posts seemed angry, I tend to get a little overzealous sometimes. Any LFS'er is alright in my book, I'd buy you a beer if you lived closer.

*sigh* All I'm saying is that people are leaving LFS. Do you agree with that at least? And you missquoted me, I hope you are not a journalist.

Quote from McDee :

I used to be able to race any car I felt like (except when they released a new car)

which you turned into:

Quote from NightShift :

but to say you could always choose ANY car and find a full server, well, that's a big overstatement!

Which is a big overstatement that I never made. I started playing LFS a month after it was released so I may have some experience that you don't when it comes to LFS's past.

Then you turned this quote around;

Quote from McDee :

Yeah, I'm talking about 2004-2007

A reference to the forums btw, since it followed your quote of;

Quote from NightShift :

I've been a lurker for a long time don't be fooled by the silly amount of posts carrying my name these days.

I remember if I said something about test patches in the servers' chat, only a small minority was aware of them. Most never had an idea a new patch was going to be released, or what was going to be in it.

That of course was around mid '08, when there was not a delayed car to draw attention to LFS.

Last edited by McDee, Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:17.

Quote from NightShift :

These are just a few samples, but one counter example is all it takes to bring a theory down.

All of those threads were created over 2 years after the cars where released. 4 years in the case of the MRT5. What's your point? That I'm wrong is claiming LFS was still alive in 2007 and that it was actually dying earlier? That supports my "theory" btw.

Last edited by McDee, Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:41.

Ultrataco, the nixim mod is a small chunk of rubber you put into your brake pedal, it just increases resistance. The "bodnar box" is a small usb box that you plug your pedals into. It changes the resolution of your pedals from 256 to 1024 steps, some people say it makes the wheel input smoother too since it now is doing less work.

There is a 10 page review thread on iRacings member site, but there is a decent review here too:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... 48196&highlight=nixim

oops, this is where I bought mine from; http://www.leobodnar.com/ or http://www.leobodnar.com/products/DFPG25conn/ if you are really lazy ;p

Last edited by McDee, Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:41. Reason : added bodnar links

Yeah, I'm talking about 2004-2007. I've been playing LFS for a loooong time. Trust me, it's no overstatement. The release of the MRT5 and S2 had a big impact. And I'm not talking about a "full" server". If you reread my post you will find I never said that, please please do not put words in my mouth. I said you could "find a server with people on it and race". Again, please please do not put words in my mouth.

I didn't know about the test patches till around mid 2008 either. That however doesn't mean I didn't read the forums.

Last edited by McDee, Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:13.

Quote from bbman :

If problems should arise, the devs will take action themselves, we won't have any part in it...So unless you hear that prices will go up or you'll have to pay a monthly subscription from now on, you can sleep well assuming that the business is running ok...

Problems have already arrived, I used to be able to race any car I felt like (except when they released a new car) and now I can't, that is a problem IMO. I would happily put up with a price increase or policy change if it meant more updates, and due to more updates, more racers. It's all about more racers.

Quote from bbman :

As for Eric's post: after all those comments and even punches below the belt it was only a matter of time until one of them would run out of patience... It was surprising how long it took and his post was more restrained than what I would've said - and it isn't even something of my concern...

Hey, I feel for the guy and even agree with him on a lot of levels, but the fact remains. It's just not smart to make those feelings public to your customers/potential customers. Can you imagine any successful business having PR like that? Heck, even a call center person would get fired for saying something like that to just one customer.

Quote from NightShift :

The forums can be hardly regarded as PR, the 'average customer' doesn't usually dwell on the discussion boards. The people in here are a limited subset of the whole customer base.

And I totally +1 bbman's post.

You might be surprised how many LFS'ers are familiar with the forums. Just because they don't post doesn't mean they don't see this place.

People seem to forget the most important thing, LFS is a BUSINESS, as in, they need to make money or they don't eat. I'm more worried about them keeping LFS alive than I am about the scirocco. In the early days you could pick the car you like, find a server with people on it and race. Now if you want company you have to pick a server with people, and drive the car they are driving. I've got about 10 friends to buy LFS over the years, and none of them are regulars any more. Now I know this is fine, people take breaks etc but here's the thing; LFS needs new content just to stop or slow the "churn", the people leaving LFS for other sims. It does not need this to make me happy, or to satisfy the whiners. It needs this to STAY IN BUSINESS, to put food on the table etc etc. The hardcore LFS crowd is not enough to keep things going, even though they are usually the most enjoyable people to drive with there just aren't enough of them.

Thing is though, when I see Eric post "You don't like it, leave" I get scared. It makes me think the devs themselves aren't mature enough to maintain a professional apperance. LFS's public relations could really use some help, and this forum sure isn't doing that. If you REALLY want LFS to survive, go get new people to buy it. It's that simple. The dev's just aren't good at getting people to do that. I bet Eric's post got a good number of them to stop actually, and that is not how you run a business.


TL;DR?

My vote is to wait for more reviews on the GT3, since that one sounds like a G25 killer and it's about the same cost @ 289 euros. The other fanatec wheels besides the 911 wheel are below the G25 IMO (wireless pedals? no thanks!) and the difference between the GT3 and 911 wheel is almost non existant (illuminated buttons and a free USB key). Also every fanatec wheel has a crap shifter mount, just so you know.

If you want to see all the differences and prices check here.
http://www.fanatec.de/html/pw_overview.htm

As for drifting, the GT3 has a strong FF motor made by mabuchi and is supposed to be really strong, plus belt drive, so it's smoother than the G25. Then there are the pedals, all metal, load cell on the brake, fully adjustable travel and resistance, beat the pants off the G25's already decent pedals.

There are a few problems though.

1 It's not on the market yet so there are no "real" reviews yet.
2 The G27 rumors are getting louder.
3 The G25 is a solid wheel too. I've had mine for over a year and not one issue so far. Though I did upgrade it with the nixim mod and the bodnar box.

BTW, if you have a G25 you NEED to read the reviews on Leo Bodnar's USB controller for the pedals. And after reading them, buy it, trust me.

Here is SRT's review of the clubsport pedals (that come with the GT3 package deal for 289) Though they are reviewing the cheapo fanatec wheel with it, not the GT3 yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPwGMCflpVs

EDIT:
I'm assuming you are fine with spending around $300 on a wheel, if not, the Fanatec carrera wheel Jbird mentioned is supposed to beat the pants of the DFGT or the poor old momo. Though the DFGT is a solid choice too.

Last edited by McDee, Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:54.