http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoMqjnxCVgk

thats some bad curbing....

lfs needs the little bugs like the tire physic fixed before more tracks/cars for it to me a true sim, that being said if your going to fix the curbing why not fix the smoke physic too.

we have gpus that can do true physic's why not use something like physX and end up with smoke more like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZQpWo9Qhs
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dT6pcA0wI4
instead of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAEcSAzn-PI

every single lfs burn out looks the same, smoke goes right thru the body inside the car. and you drive away and its gone. the lfs devs must have never done a big smoky burn out. the smoke gets in the car comes out from under the hood around the seams and when you drive away the smoke is coming out of the windows and all the areas where it gets trapped in. until the tires and smoke physic are better lfs won't be a real simulator

Quote from gotspeed :

the lfs devs must have never done a big smoky burn out. until the tires and smoke physic are better lfs won't be a real simulator

You've never done a successful world class racing simulator on your own.

Quote from Breizh :

You've never done a successful world class racing simulator on your own.

how is it that one guy with 3d max or what ever can render his own car and realistic smoke. yet after 4+ years 3 guys working on a sim can't get smoke right.

try drive with a little caution. Sometimes, go fast it isn´t the best, I think. Don´t cut and calm down.

Quote from amp88 :

Video of Ralf Schumacher flying at Avus in a German F3 race. This is the video the first attached image in my above post is from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_22ytlGX7Q

LOL he still tried to drive it. MAD

Quote from gotspeed :

how is it that one guy with 3d max or what ever can render his own car and realistic smoke. yet after 4+ years 3 guys working on a sim can't get smoke right.

You're complaining about the devs not spending more time developing tyre smoke?

It's an original complaint if nothing else.

Quote from gotspeed :

how is it that one guy with 3d max or what ever can render his own car and realistic smoke. yet after 4+ years 3 guys working on a sim can't get smoke right.

Because hundreds of guys worked on 3d max itself....

I'm sure the S stands for speed and not smoke. and if that is the case then LFS simulates speed very well.
gotspeed, you're turning into quite the little rant factory, maybe chill out a bit?

Just soften ur springs. V8 super cars do that to kerb hop. Just need to adjust other settings to suit.

Quote from farcar :

You're complaining about the devs not spending more time developing tyre smoke?

It's an original complaint if nothing else.

after driving over 80k MILES not km but miles watching people slaming on the brakes or spinning and the smoke is gone in 2 seconds. watch a nascar race or any gt race and when some one spins in front of a guy you can't see the track half the time.

real crashes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UJ5jD6OJiE
lfs crashes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPhPbToZ00

real world some one spins and its a gamble to make it past through the smoke and trash coming off the car. a spin in lfs and everyone can see every decal on the car as they drive past him. smoke coming off a car is a problem in a real race. yet unless you have a smoke mod on with a huge amount of smoke coming off the car driving a car in lfs past someone smoking. until lfs has smoke and parts coming off the car that can damage other cars (flats, or messing up shocks and windows) it will just be a racing game that isn't a arcade game but i wouldn't call it a simulator. so should a car roll on a turn or not is the same argument. should it roll every time probably not should it roll if the driver doesn't know how to save it (ie turnning in to the roll, turning left if the car is rolling over to the left) i would think it should.

all the little detail stuff with tire flex and weight transfer and every thing, for the smoke to be missing from the game is unacceptable if you ask me.

Quote from gotspeed :

how is it that one guy with 3d max or what ever can render his own car and realistic smoke.

ya know how i know you've never rendered a car with realistic smoke in 3dmax or whatever?

I get the sense that this is part of the racing mythos, at least in American culture and particularly oval racing, that a driver may or may not be daring enough to go flat out through the smoke, not knowing what lies within or behind.

Yeah, that's all exciting to read about or see, particularly for the general public. But to suggest that is among the most important aspects to get right in a racing sim, even more important than proper tire and chassis behavior, is just outright laughable.

Quote from george_tsiros :

ya know how i know you've never rendered a car with realistic smoke in 3dmax or whatever?

i never said i did. but there a plenty of videos on youtube of people doing it on there own. not huge ea or other big game studios. but still in lfs you spin and theres absolutely no smoke at all.

Quote from Forbin :

I get the sense that this is part of the racing mythos, at least in American culture and particularly oval racing, that a driver may or may not be daring enough to go flat out through the smoke, not knowing what lies within or behind.

Yeah, that's all exciting to read about or see, particularly for the general public. But to suggest that is among the top 10 things to get right in a racing sim is just outright laughable.

so you want a racing sim that is all the best parts of racing and none of the downsides like smoke or parts on the track that cause flat tires or other accidents. if thats the case then lfs is an arcade game not a simulator. a simulator covers every thing from the tire temp affecting grip to hitting curbing and rolling a high center of gravity car like the xfr or ufr AND the smoke that a spinning car creates.

Last time I checked, it was the arcade games putting emphasis on parts falling off and smoke while neglecting proper physics.

I agree, it'd be nice to have the best of both worlds. At the moment, either due to limited development time, limited processing power, or both, we're left choosing/prioritizing between proper vehicle dynamics and whiz-bang graphical effects. I'd much rather have a realistic driving/racing experience with a car that feels right, even if it means I don't have to deal with the challenges of collision avoidance due to smoke or parts on track.

Straight up racing is what excites me. The other stuff is just fluff.

Quote from Forbin :

Last time I checked, it was the arcade games putting emphasis on parts falling off and smoke while neglecting proper physics.

I agree, it'd be nice to have the best of both worlds. At the moment, either due to limited development time, limited processing power, or both, we're left choosing/prioritizing between proper vehicle dynamics and whiz-bang graphical effects.

its not a arcade affect tho, it happens in a real race a cars a-arm getting hit breaks it and guess what the wheel falls off. when was the last time you watched a f1 race the guy hit a wall and just the shocks broke and the wheel bent in and he finshed the race. never happens the car falls apart and theres only 3 wheels left and hes race is over.

if the only down side to having smoke in the game is lower fps then do it already. im playing with a i7 and gtx 295 i normaly see about 300 fps even my 5 year old dell xps was still playing lfs at 70 fps with every thing set to high settings.

don't think i want a burn out image creating app from lfs. but i would like it so when the guy in front of me gets bumped and spins it makes my race more realistic if i have to hold my breath and drive through a blinding cloud of smoke once and a while.

A hypothetical for you:

You're having the race of your life with your archrival. All of a sudden, a bumper/oil slick/smoke cloud with a car in it/whatever appears out of nowhere due to some noobish backmarker. One (or both) of you hits the object and ends your epic race.

That's not fun or exciting. That just sucks. That's why that stuff is typically viewed as gimmicky in race sims. Yes, it happens in real life, but it's not at the true heart of racing, just the spectacle part.

Also, you're kinda switching the subject. Originally you were talking about features that would have an outside effect on a racer, such as smoke or parts on track. Now you're talking about the effect of a racer's mistakes on himself (damage from contact with a large curb/wall/rival car). That's something else. It's also something that is already in LFS, just not to the proper extent. Many would agree the current damage system is too forgiving, but IIRC, that's changing soon. And anyway, if you do happen to crash in an LFS race, your race is practically over anyway. The time lost is usually too significant to overcome.

Heh, this Thursday I partook in a UFR/XFR@FE1 event á 70 laps. 15 out of 29 racers were able to finish the race. I wouldn't blame the curbs though - If you know that they'll most likely cause your car to flip then simply stay clear. :P

Quote from Forbin :

A hypothetical for you:

You're having the race of your life with your archrival. All of a sudden, a bumper/oil slick/smoke cloud with a car in it/whatever appears out of nowhere due to some noobish backmarker. One (or both) of you hits the object and ends your epic race.

That's not fun or exciting. That just sucks. That's why that stuff is typically viewed as gimmicky in race sims. Yes, it happens in real life, but it's not at the true heart of racing, just the spectacle part.

so why do you play a racing "sim" then if you don't want the smoke and trash on the track that happens on a real race track. thats like saying you want to be a cop but don't want the people shooting at you or paper work just the fun stuff like chases and helping people and respect. if your going to call lfs a sim then it should simulate every thing not just the good parts of racing. if you ask me motors should just let go and dump a little oil on the track on long races. lfs isn't a racing sim its a arcade game with a different focus then gfx they way you want it. i want a true racing sim.

Should we be paying for tires, fuel, and repairs too? Even food? How about taking breaks because our "SimDriver" is in the hospital or because the car is broken? Why don't we always start in the pits? Maybe we could simulate loading up the truck with all our gear and driving to the track for hours, then driving back while dead tired?

Give me a break...

why dont we have a robotic arm which punches you in the head real hard when u crash.. to replicate the g-forces/pain

xD

Quote from Forbin :

Should we be paying for tires, fuel, and repairs too? Even food? How about taking breaks because our "SimDriver" is in the hospital or because the car is broken? Why don't we always start in the pits? Maybe we could simulate loading up the truck with all our gear and driving to the track for hours, then driving back while dead tired?

Give me a break...

no but a simulator should simulate what happens on the track during a race. like flipping if you hit a curb to hard/bad setup/noob driver. as it is now lfs doesn't simulate any thing but the good parts of racing. if it were any less true we could all be driving "ghost" cars so theres no contact then there wouldn't be any crashes too. since thats one of the downsides of racing as you said.

Quote from BreadC :

why dont we have a robotic arm which punches you in the head real hard when u crash.. to replicate the g-forces/pain

xD

you should be able to pick up what track this is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNoRQ3VbDs

Problem is solved when you can control 2Wheelin'. Of Course, in hotlap mode it just waste time but can save you

old vid