EDL have been out causing trouble in Eltham, SE London, not wanting to be outdone in the stupidity stakes by the young upstarts.
There's a map somewhere where you can overlay London's deprivation index map with locations of the riots, kind of suggests that this kind of immoral behavior is associated with poorer areas. Perhaps before you go off in a strop you could possibly explain how else this could be if there isn't some kind of link between deprivation and a bad upbringing?
Sorry, but I can only work with what you give me, and if you give me the same thing over and over I can only respond with the same answers.
Bye.
There's a map somewhere where you can overlay London's deprivation index map with locations of the riots, kind of suggests that this kind of immoral behavior is associated with poorer areas. Perhaps before you go off in a strop you could possibly explain how else this could be if there isn't some kind of link between deprivation and a bad upbringing?
Sorry, but I can only work with what you give me, and if you give me the same thing over and over I can only respond with the same answers.
Bye.
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Was that money public funding though? The point is these people were supposedly facing a crisis yet they've simply carried on their excessive ways as before, meanwhile we all have to tighten our belts for their mistakes.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have their parents around to teach them values, some people have parents at work all the time just to stay afloat. The point is these riots may not necessarily be caused or motivated directly by economic or political problems and inequality, but these things helped breed the culture of disrespect that lead to these riots.
So we should let ourselves be held to ransom and extorted every time the markets take a nosedive? I can never understand how people are so quick to criticise individual people when they need some financial help, yet be so willing to give huge sums of 'free money' to organisations who then rub it in our face with huge bonuses in the face of austerity. I reckon we'd only have to go through letting the banks fail once. We'd certainly come out with a dramatically altered economy, but perhaps we need to build a more balanced economy that isn't at the mercy of the whims of these irresponsible and greedy bastards. The short term crisis may be deeper but in the longer term the UK economy would emerge fairer and more stable, and we really could say we're all in this together.
That's part of the issue, these young people have grown up being sold dreams on TV, while at the same time having the services and opportunities available to them slashed. They've been made to feel entitled yet at the same time come to realise that they can't have these dreams and opportunities. Throw in the gangsta' lifestyle sold to them which predisposes to violence, a general patronising and snobbish air amongst the better off and intrusive police tactics and you have the current situation.
There aren't any. Its about time people dropped their denial and faced the fact that irresponsible financial practice has bankrupted our country, there are those who are trying to avoid that punishment by shifting the load onto the people, David Cameron has done an impressive political job of turning what was a crisis of bad banking into one of public spending, to further his personal political agenda of representing only the wealthy, but the reality is the financial sector both home and internationally started this crisis but is making you pay for it.
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Its about generations, the majority of the rioters appear to be from the 90s born generations, and these people had parents who were affected by the governments of the 80s. No doubt those who rioted in the early mid 80s and their parents were influenced by the political, financial and social situation of the 60s and 70s. Just because a government is voted out of power, it doesn't mean the legacy of their policies does not last.
A lot of pain, but the suffering would be more fairly distributed. If either way we're going to suffer, then its best that we don't let those who caused the suffering get away with their actions. Perhaps if the financial sector was allowed to get burnt it might come away hurt but wiser for the future. We keep giving these organisations second chances and every time they go and make the same mistakes.
When you see masses of people struck by indignant surpise because a major national problem they were completely ignorant to suddenly rears its ugly head, it gets very difficult not to become condescending. People just don't get it. Its not like I would've predicted this, but now its happened at least I can see the ways in which its come about, while others just put it down to 'chavvy scum' without elaborating any further.
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Do you think the bailouts came from thin air? The state has a 65% stake in Lloyds banking group, of which RBS and Halifax are subsidiaries, while the right wing media says your taxes are paying for benefit claimants to live in their big houses, in reality its paying for the heads of these banks to live in theirs. In a fair world they'd be out of a job.
Wars and bank bailouts are just the latest in a long list of times the people have been screwed over in favor of the needs of corporations or career politicians.
To be honest either way there is no painless way out of this, but I object to the people having to take the responsibility for the financial industry's reckless tactics. They caused this mess and as such should take the fall for it. We've bailed them out and as a result they'll probably never learn and it'll all happen again in a few decades time. At least the people not getting paid would include the people who caused the crisis, and Dave C and his pals really could almost get away with saying "we're all in this together".
So? It's a valid suggestion, if I went to the trouble of writing a whole manifesto you wouldn't read it anyway, given the way many forumers are already typing the response to the post they wanted to read rather than whats actually written, before they even reach the bottom of said post.
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Not slashing public services would be a start, it might help people value their communities more if their public institutions weren't being run down to pay for wars of questionable importance and banker's bonuses, and if people valued their communities then they would become more desirable and less crime ridden, and perhaps businesses would be more willing to invest in the communities.
I already said this in my previous post.
What he doesn't realise is that the underlying anger is not the issue, its the underlying attitude of 'who gives a ****?', that's the problem. That's why kids are so willing to smash up their own communities because they don't care for them, when nothing is invested in a community it loses its value.
Now where does he think this attitude came from? Are people honestly short sighted enough to think this all happened at random?
Also, again he fails to distinguish between sympathising and explaining, I really doubt anyone but a few idiots sympathises with the rioters, we've all seen the videos and pictures of the kind of scummy behavior going on. What a lot of people on the left are saying is "we're not surprised", this is very different from saying you sympathise with them.
How are we going to have an intelligent debate and improve anything if anybody who dares says anything different to "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum", gets shouted down as a lefty sympathiser? People join in with the vitriol for fear of being called out for saying anything different, you only have to look on Twitter or Facebook to see it in action.
If the response to this unrest is going to consist of nothing but high and mighty right wing vitriol, blanket assumptions and uninformed prejudice, then nothing will change for the better. If politicians, corporations and people continue their detached hand-wringing instead of trying to tackle the source of the problem (hint: a loss of all pride, value and respect for community and an attitude of entitlement and greed), then there will only be more riots.
Oh and another hint, cutting public services is not the place to start if you want people to value their community.
Now where does he think this attitude came from? Are people honestly short sighted enough to think this all happened at random?
Also, again he fails to distinguish between sympathising and explaining, I really doubt anyone but a few idiots sympathises with the rioters, we've all seen the videos and pictures of the kind of scummy behavior going on. What a lot of people on the left are saying is "we're not surprised", this is very different from saying you sympathise with them.
How are we going to have an intelligent debate and improve anything if anybody who dares says anything different to "send in the army and shoot the chavvy lower class scum", gets shouted down as a lefty sympathiser? People join in with the vitriol for fear of being called out for saying anything different, you only have to look on Twitter or Facebook to see it in action.
If the response to this unrest is going to consist of nothing but high and mighty right wing vitriol, blanket assumptions and uninformed prejudice, then nothing will change for the better. If politicians, corporations and people continue their detached hand-wringing instead of trying to tackle the source of the problem (hint: a loss of all pride, value and respect for community and an attitude of entitlement and greed), then there will only be more riots.
Oh and another hint, cutting public services is not the place to start if you want people to value their community.
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Once again, you show how out of touch with reality you are, just because people receive welfare doesn't mean they receive enough to live off, just because people get council housing doesn't mean its not rotting with years of broken promises to repair. But the Daily Mail would have you think these people are living in mansions on enormous handouts, perhaps they sprinkle in a few anomalous cases and try to make them look like the status-quo, and the saddest thing is people like you swallow it without question.
Also you need to distinguish between trying to justify the riots and explaining their cause, they are two different things although again much of the right wing media would rather you only thought in black and white, either for or against the riots.
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So it seems the riots have given an excuse for supremacist scum to feel even more righteous and superior than normal, and to spread hate under the pretense of 'protecting communities'. These people are no more intelligent or decent than the rioters themselves. No doubt all sorts will seize upon this riot to further their own agendas at the cost of everyone but themselves.
Its all such a shame, something could've been done to stop the culture that lead to these riots growing, but the seeds began to be sowed over 20 years ago and now its ingrained in the most deprived of each new generation. A complete lack of respect or pride in anything. I think it may be too late to ever reverse the trend. A combination of state neglect, ignorance, and rampant commercialism has made many people both deprived and greedy, setting them up for savage behavior as they feel entitled to the goods they can't have.
I'm sick of people being surprised and outraged, as if this thuggery has come from nowhere without cause. The truth we've had it coming for so long and it seems nobody including myself really saw it coming. No doubt the response will be outrage and class/race hate and the subsequent crackdown will only prime the country for even more violence.
Its all such a shame, something could've been done to stop the culture that lead to these riots growing, but the seeds began to be sowed over 20 years ago and now its ingrained in the most deprived of each new generation. A complete lack of respect or pride in anything. I think it may be too late to ever reverse the trend. A combination of state neglect, ignorance, and rampant commercialism has made many people both deprived and greedy, setting them up for savage behavior as they feel entitled to the goods they can't have.
I'm sick of people being surprised and outraged, as if this thuggery has come from nowhere without cause. The truth we've had it coming for so long and it seems nobody including myself really saw it coming. No doubt the response will be outrage and class/race hate and the subsequent crackdown will only prime the country for even more violence.
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Just spent 45 minutes walking 'round trying to find a shop that's open, followed some police cars and an ambulance only to find someone had rolled a Triumph Stag at a junction, nobody hurt though it seems. 
Conservatives dodging tax? Impossible.
Interesting really, I think we've seen behind his internet facade and from here it looks like I can see a hypocrite.
Are there jobs or aren't there? Make your mind up.
Perhaps that has something to do with three wars which are effectively off budget and bailing out banks when they played with fire and got burned. Also, perhaps if we prioritised compassion over profit then the disorder problem would not be so severe.
Then why does everything you say sound like its been copied from some pious conservative publication? Funny that you seem to have extensive first hand experience of every subject of debate that comes up on this forum.
There is no excuse for what we're witnessing, but such massive unrest doesn't develop from by itself, you can't deny that there is a cause for these riots. Young people are not naturally conditioned to raid shops and smash windows unless there is a major problem with the structure of contemporary society that is being willfully ignored by the powers that be.
If there are no jobs, then the reality is people will be living off unemployment benefit for a long time. A lot of people seem to think that just because job prospects are good in their area that the situation is consistent everywhere. In some parts of the city there really are no jobs, and to deny that is to be very narrow minded and ignorant.
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All these things are being slowly eroded by a conservative government. Perhaps if you had to live off unemployment benefit for any real amount of time you wouldn't be so detached from the reality. The mainstream media like you all to think that people are living off £100s a week when this really isn't the case for the majority of claimants. As for using youth clubs, my local one was always full, the better off kids tend to shun them which is why they probably think nobody uses them, again completely out of touch from the reality.
Essentially this whole situation has been caused by years of ignorance about less fortunate people's problems. The middle and upper classes stick their head in the sand then act surprised when society collapses because people have come to the conclusion 'why bother?' and that attitude has rubbed off on their children.
Essentially this whole situation has been caused by years of ignorance about less fortunate people's problems. The middle and upper classes stick their head in the sand then act surprised when society collapses because people have come to the conclusion 'why bother?' and that attitude has rubbed off on their children.
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OK then, you explain to me why we now have a society that will explode into needless violence with the slightest provocation, there a lot of criticism about the 'scummy yoofs', but very little talk about the cause or a solution. Do you think this kind of behavior grew from nowhere or was it the product of our recent history...
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Romford shops are now being looted, and already Twitter and Facebook are lighting up with snobbish posts and calls to get the army in and shoot everyone....
You just tarred possibly 1000+ people with the same brush, and you expect me to take you seriously?
There is a common misconception promoted by much of the mainstream media that the lower working class live some kind of life of luxury on gazillion pound a week benefit payments. The reality is quite different in quite a lot of London's inner city, many people don't work simply because there are no jobs, and when people cant find money to pay the bills they turn to crime, and when an opportunity for crime like this presents itself who can resist?
I agree that the rioters have no political cause, but you need to see the bigger picture as to why these people turn to crime so readily, and the responsibility successive Conservative/Labour governments have for that.
You just tarred possibly 1000+ people with the same brush, and you expect me to take you seriously?
There is a common misconception promoted by much of the mainstream media that the lower working class live some kind of life of luxury on gazillion pound a week benefit payments. The reality is quite different in quite a lot of London's inner city, many people don't work simply because there are no jobs, and when people cant find money to pay the bills they turn to crime, and when an opportunity for crime like this presents itself who can resist?
I agree that the rioters have no political cause, but you need to see the bigger picture as to why these people turn to crime so readily, and the responsibility successive Conservative/Labour governments have for that.
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Do you think the kind of society that breeds that behavior came about by itself?
Indeed they were, to parents who lived through the 80s, many of whom suffered the effects, and Labour wasn't exactly the breath of fresh air many hoped at the time. Yes the current riots have very little to do with politics, but the culture of violence and opportunism and the decline of basic respect and morals are things 30 years of successive governments have failed to address and as such are ultimately responsible for. These things are more common in states where inequality is stronger and social mobility weak, essentially the state continues to ignore the poor and this is the price.
Relevant....
People trying to get in on the act in Romford but nothing so far compared to the unrest further West. I think we can all agree that these riots are not a noble stand against the state, but its getting pretty clear to see that this entire culture of wanton violence and scum is the legacy of 80s conservatism coming back to haunt us.
A whole load of late 70s and 80s songs have suddenly become relevant again.
People trying to get in on the act in Romford but nothing so far compared to the unrest further West. I think we can all agree that these riots are not a noble stand against the state, but its getting pretty clear to see that this entire culture of wanton violence and scum is the legacy of 80s conservatism coming back to haunt us.
A whole load of late 70s and 80s songs have suddenly become relevant again.
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How many times have I seen you say this? I'm always disappointed when you never follow through with it though.
I really can't see how this deal benefits people in any way, after all the political or corporate dealing, its always the majority of people that lose out.
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Its an interesting quiz but some of the questions are a bit black and white, e.g. whether its a waste of time to rehabilitate criminals depends on the sitation and the individual.
Still... -6.12 -4.31
Still... -6.12 -4.31
Its become quite fashionable to be uneccessarily flippant and cynicool about absolutely everything, particularly from behind the facade of an internet forum account. Consider yourself to be part of the 'hipster' problem, BlueFlame.
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG